Nerlens Noel Thread

Mik317 · Post #541 » by **Mik317** » Mon Mar 2, 2015 7:06 am

I wonder if Wiggins was on our team doing the exact same things if people would feel the same way.

Something tells me we wouldn't be hearing much about how bad he has been defensively

Post #542 » by **CoreyGallagher** » Mon Mar 2, 2015 7:15 am

Mik317 wrote:I wonder if Wiggins was on our team doing the exact same things if people would feel the same way.

Something tells me we wouldn't be hearing much about how bad he has been defensively

You can acknowledge the prospects that players are and still recognize facets of their games that they have to develop, especially when that's what the numbers validate.

We're Sixers' fans, we'd complain. If Embiid doesn't defend well next season do you really believe we're not going to complain about that? Lol... I'm sure if he's doing well offensively we'd be just as excited as Wolves' fans are for Wiggins though.

76ciology · Post #543 » by **76ciology** » Mon Mar 2, 2015 7:28 am

CoreyGallagher wrote:
Mik317 wrote:I wonder if Wiggins was on our team doing the exact same things if people would feel the same way.

Something tells me we wouldn't be hearing much about how bad he has been defensively

You can acknowledge the prospects that players are and still recognize facets if their games that they have to develop, especially when that's what the numbers validate.

We're Sixers' fans, we'd complain. If Embiid doesn't defend well next season do you really believe we're not going to complain about that? Lol...

I have found message boards are inclined to be one sided either magnifying either the good or the bad side.

With Wiggins, I'm just speaking out of my experience with Iguodala and Turner, both his strengths and weakness and the SF competition in general. I also did a lot of research on Wiggins, because I was high on us selecting him with our pick last year. But I was disappointed because of unrealistic expectations and was probably also caught up with the hype. I find Wiggins to be limited but effective offensively. I think he'd be a great defender down the road. But I'm not bullish on defensive swingmans, I see them mostly as one on one defenders rather than team defensive anchors. I do prefer rim protectors in terms of defensive effectivity, for the same reason Noel was able to carry our defense despite his strength liability.

With regards to Embiid, I really believe a lot of people will be disappointed if Embiid turned into a bust. I also believe that people won't go MKG-love on him where you'd blindly just magnify his strength will completely disregarding his weakness.

With Noel, I think it's more of effectivity on the defensive end plus the improvements I see in him in the middle of the season, that gives me high hopes for him. How good will Noel be if he can hit those jumpers consistently while shooting FTs at around 70%? I also think that MCW kind of hurts our team and Nerlen's offense. The ball and players are moving much better right now, covington for instance is driving more while Noel is finishing at a better clip. I think that when the ball moves, the energy level is much better thus our guys are cutting more and shooting better.

Lapinski · Post #544 » by **Lapinski** » Mon Mar 2, 2015 8:50 am

76ciology wrote:Regarding Nerlens traded for top 5-7 pick.

I think you guys need to stop what you're smoking.

For a top 3 pick and have a chance to get Jahlil, KAT or Russell, maybe i'd consider trading him for that but all those guys at 5-7 picks are only average to good players and I wouldn't trade Nerlens for them. Remember that most guys in the draft are similar to speculative stocks where you are counting on future value that has high probability that won't be realized.

I like Nerlens. His development is very promising. And has shown to have LEGIT DPOY candidate and all time defensive player caliber even just being less than a year older than Wiggins. This guy can guard anyone, from quick guards like Kyrie and John Wall on a halfcourt setting to protecting the rim at an efficient rate. That is something guys like mutombo and pippen can't do. We're talking about all time best caliber.

David Robinson says hi!

Lapinski · Post #545 » by **Lapinski** » Mon Mar 2, 2015 8:55 am

effectiveness

marcush · Post #546 » by **marcush** » Mon Mar 2, 2015 9:01 am

Mik317 wrote:I wonder if Wiggins was on our team doing the exact same things if people would feel the same way.

Something tells me we wouldn't be hearing much about how bad he has been defensively

Agreed. Kinda wish this was a thread just for Noel and didn't have the anti Wiggins sentiment through it.

AAKing23 · Post #547 » by **AAKing23** » Mon Mar 2, 2015 9:05 am

I wouldn't trade Nerlens for a top 5 pick, He is a cornerstone for this team. We need to build a foundation and not just keep trading our pieces. Plus we already have our pick and possibly the Lakers pick. The frontcourt is not a concern right now so Towns and Okafor shouldn't be the focus anyway. Okafor wouldn't fit here and while I could see Towns fitting here, I don't see a reason for Nerlens to be moved if he were to arrive.

Post #548 » by **HartfordWhalers** » Mon Mar 2, 2015 1:25 pm

Zeitgeister wrote:RPM is often considered the best advanced statistic available at the moment.

I wouldn't go that far at all.

Some people love RAPM, as it has the on offs, adjusted and brings something that box scores were missing. Others hate it, as it has a number of known flaws, and instead love stuff like WS, WARP, or etc, as a composite statistic that tries to capture most of what happens, albeit box score only.

RPM is part of the new wave of basically combining the two. Personally, I would prefer instead a straight RAPM, and using the other statistics, than a hybrid that is potentially worse than both.

http://www.gotbuckets.com/2014/04/14/a- ... m-results/

Thats a decent stab at what RPM screws up, and why someone might like RAPM instead. Using something like a players height as a variable should be systematically captured in rapm or in box score stats -- it either effects the points actually scored or something, anything. And if it doesn't, its probably just over fitting, to get the best possible fit with the 1 season of past data available. Which itself isn't very confidence inspiring.

RAPM has a lot of flaws, and I take their results with a grain of salt. RPM I would take with much much more, by keeping the RAPM data as a large component it essentially masks where RAPM biases throw RPM off, and introduces a new set of factors that may instead be described as biases.

Personally, I would look at the RAPM data, and look at something like the new BPM composites (as well as traditional stats), and entirely skip RPM.

roma258 · Post #549 » by **roma258** » Mon Mar 2, 2015 2:49 pm

The number of advanced stats out there is getting ridiculous. Basically you can always find a stat that validates your argument, if you look hard enough. And naturally, that stat becomes the "best" one. Both Wiggins and Noel are great prospects. Wiggy will probably get ROY, which is fine, since I think he's been more consistent during throughout the year. There's really no runaway ROY this year, as the draft has been crushed by injuries and some guys not living up to the hype. This board was in love with Wiggins before the draft, so I'm sure we'd be riding to his defense if he was on our squad. I'm just happy with how Noel has progressed since the beginning of the year, and as long as he gets 1st team rookie squad, I'm satisfied.

freshie2 · Post #550 » by **freshie2** » Wed Mar 4, 2015 1:53 am

If the teams were reversed, we'd both like the player we had. They are both deserving of ROY.

PhilasFinest · Post #551 » by **PhilasFinest** » Wed Mar 4, 2015 4:56 am

Over the past 13 games:
Nerlens Noel is averaging 13.4 ppg 7.8 rpg 1.5 stl 2.6 blk and is shooting a ridiculous 83% from the FT line.

:clap:

76ciology · Post #552 » by **76ciology** » Wed Mar 4, 2015 5:04 am

PhilasFinest wrote:Over the past 13 games:
Nerlens Noel is averaging 13.4 ppg 7.8 rpg 1.5 stl 2.6 blk and is shooting a ridiculous 83% from the FT line.

Better PER right now than Wiggins.

76ciology · Post #553 » by **76ciology** » Wed Mar 4, 2015 5:09 am

Noel's defensive numbers are great. If he'd just be more efficient finishing around the rim and shooting FTs, then I think he'd pose really good PER and have good +/- diff numbers.

PhilasFinest · Post #554 » by **PhilasFinest** » Wed Mar 4, 2015 5:42 am

76ciology wrote:Noel's defensive numbers are great. If he'd just be more efficient finishing around the rim and shooting FTs, then I think he'd pose really good PER and have good +/- diff numbers.

Yea, We all figured he'd be a work in progress on offense, so I'm not shocked. The past month or 2 have been very promising tho.
His defense is getting better and his offense is improving as well.

Negrodamus · Post #555 » by **Negrodamus** » Wed Mar 4, 2015 3:26 pm

PhilasFinest wrote:Over the past 13 games:
Nerlens Noel is averaging 13.4 ppg 7.8 rpg 1.5 stl 2.6 blk and is shooting a ridiculous 83% from the FT line.

That should terrify the rest of the league. If he keeps up this FT shooting percentage, then there really isn't a ceiling for Nerlens. He and Embiid will be so much fun to watch together.

Post #556 » by **CoreyGallagher** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 12:47 am

Wiggins and Marcus Smart named Rookie of the Month for February... Smart shot 35.4%.

Smart 97 ORtg to 103 DRtg
Noel 103 ORtg to 95 DRtg
(Wiggins 105 ORtg to 109 DRtg)

L **** O **** L

MRxBLACK · Post #557 » by **MRxBLACK** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 12:54 am

CoreyGallagher wrote:Wiggins and Marcus Smart named Rookie of the Month for February... Smart shot 35.4%.

L **** O **** L

That's some bull **** right there.

Compare their Feb game logs:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... lits/2015/
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... lits/2015/

Post #558 » by **HartfordWhalers** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 12:56 am

CoreyGallagher wrote:Wiggins and Marcus Smart named Rookie of the Month for February... Smart shot 35.4%.

Smart 97 ORtg to 103 DRtg
Noel 103 ORtg to 95 DRtg
(Wiggins 105 ORtg to 109 DRtg)

L **** O **** L

Ortg and Drtag are highly team dependent. I wouldn't use them to compare 2 players.

Post #559 » by **HartfordWhalers** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 12:59 am

Ad Nerlens got robbed by any criteria I can think of.

Post #560 » by **CoreyGallagher** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 1:01 am

HartfordWhalers wrote:Ortg and Drtag are highly team dependent. I wouldn't use them to compare 2 players.

You can compare the raw stats, Noel put up the better raw stats, what some may not realize is that one player obviously benefited his team on both ends of the floor, the other did not seem to.