***Sixerfan1976 Official Thread - Update Page 28***

Redlight · Post #561 » by **Redlight** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:19 am

Martin is 28,while Ellis is 25. Martin shoots 38% from 3 point range,while Monta shoots 36% from 3 point range. Ellis is a big time scorer,who demands the ball. Ellis gets toasted on the defensive end with regularity. If the 76ers had some money,they could sign JR Smith or Jason Richardson and keep Iggy,but Stefanski has broken the piggy bank. I guess it's back to the drawing board for Thorn and Ed.

76ciology · Post #562 » by **76ciology** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:19 am

I don't think either Monta Ellis and Kevin Martin would fit well with Jrue and ET. Same reason why Kmart didn't fit well with Tyreke Evans and Monta Ellis with Steph Curry. Not only do they create defensive liabilities on the floor but they are more suited to play with role playing PG or SF. Because they are ball/shot dominant at the offensive end.

Kobblehead · Post #563 » by **Kobblehead** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:20 am

philly262 wrote:[How is Martin inefficient? And Ellis hasn't exactly been an iron man himself...

Other than a moped accident, Ellis has been relatively healthy throughout his career.

Since 2008, Kevin Martin has been shooting 15 or so shots a game at less than 43% shooting. A shadow of the well-oiled scoring machine he was before that.

PH1LLYSFINEST13 · Post #564 » by **PH1LLYSFINEST13** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:22 am

76ciology wrote:
PH1LLYSFINEST13 wrote:Everyone is worried about Turner playing the 3 defensivley... He did D-up Lebron pretty well in the playoffs. he doesnt have to guard the best SF every night. he is 6'7. I mean , running through some of the SF's in the league , players in the west like Casspi , Ron Artest , AK47 not that he plays for Utah anymore , RJ in San Antonio , Dorrell Wright , Caron butler...All im sayin is he doesnt have to guard a Lebron james type player every night. There will be nights when he might be guarding Luc Richard Mbah A'moute..I think he is capable.

How about offensively? Remember that he had a hard time against them because have the length and the athleticism to compete with most of the SFs.

Good point but my thoughts are thats part of his growth is being able to take these guys off the dribble. I mean isnt that what we expect him to do?

philly262 · Post #565 » by **philly262** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:19 am

Kobblehead wrote:
philly262 wrote:[How is Martin inefficient? And Ellis hasn't exactly been an iron man himself...

Other than a moped accident, Ellis has been relatively healthy throughout his career.

Since 2008, Kevin Martin has been shooting 15 or so shots a game at less than 43% shooting. A shadow of the well-oiled scoring machine he was before that.

Yeah fg%, not that good of an indicator of how efficient a player is, Kevin Martin had the 3rd highest TS% at sg/sfs, at 60%, 7 points higher than a guy like Ellis. He has one of the highest fta/fga ratios in the league, so you know he gets to the line a crazy amount. Kevin Martin has consistently. been one of the most efficient scorers in the league.

LarsV8 · Post #566 » by **LarsV8** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:37 am

Kobblehead wrote:
PK5 wrote:How can the same people who like Monta Ellis, not like Kevin Martin?

Not that I don't like Martin, but it's pretty obvious why people like Ellis and wouldn't want Martin.

Ellis is 3 years younger, is slightly cheaper, and is much more explosive. Martin isn't very durable and has been pretty inefficient over the last 3 years. They're both pretty ball dominant, but Ellis is an underrated playmaker, whereas Martin is pretty much a black hole.

You know I was just casually observing this thread due to the Houston mentions, but these two statements just blow my mind.

Do you know anything about Kevin Martin at all?

Dan Verze · Post #567 » by **Dan Verze** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:28 am

Ellis > Martin
Ellis + Biedrins > Martin + Hill

nuff' said.

Keep Iggy, if bull like this is on the table.

ChuckS · Post #568 » by **ChuckS** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:44 am

Everyone is worried about Turner playing the 3 defensivley... He did D-up Lebron pretty well in the playoffs.

So many have said this that I have been too chicken to posit my alternative theory. And I do believe that ET has potential (and the size) to be a pretty good defender. But, I cannot help myself. I really believe that it was Doug Collins who most limited LeBron.

Every time LBJ got a step on Evan, and he did every time, the defender of the pick man, or any defender in the vicinity, would trap. Spoelstra often countered with Bosh and Wade, because he has that luxury, and because for the most part they were guarded one on one by Elton and Dre. I thought it was an interesting "chess" match.

I thought Doug learned a lesson in one of the last games of the regular season, against Detroit. Hamilton and Stuckey went by Turner at will near the end of the game. I found it ironic that the only time Rip stopped his attack and passed was when Nocioni switched on him, on the baseline, about 7 feet from the basket.

I understand evaluating rookies differently. That is fair. I just need to see more before I anoint Evan as a lock down defender, or anything else.

PS: I like Martin and think he would be great next to Iguodala, if that could be accomplished. Actually, of all the scoring threes we have coveted, he is the only one who has (a slight) PER differential edge on Dre. It is also much better than Ellis' and with lower opponent production, so I lean to believing he best offsets defensive limitations.

Kobblehead · Post #569 » by **Kobblehead** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:36 pm

Does anyone know if Sixerfan said he was going to give any more updates?

Post #570 » by **dbodner** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:37 pm

Kobblehead wrote:
philly262 wrote:[How is Martin inefficient? And Ellis hasn't exactly been an iron man himself...

Other than a moped accident, Ellis has been relatively healthy throughout his career.

Since 2008, Kevin Martin has been shooting 15 or so shots a game at less than 43% shooting. A shadow of the well-oiled scoring machine he was before that.

Except he's getting to the line 8.4 times per game, making 89% of them, while making 2.2 three's per game at 38%.

Martin's efficiency last year was right in line with his career average mark, and light years ahead of Ellis. The difference between a 60.1% TS% (which is right around Kevin Martin's career averages) and a 53.6% TS% (Well above Monta's caeer average) is so drastic it's completely absurd to call them similar in terms of efficiency, as is using 15.8 shots to score 23.5 points compared to 20.1 shots to score 24.1 points.

If healthy, Kevin Martin is a much better fit with Jrue and ET than Monta. I'd prefer a "black hole" (RE: play finisher) over a shot creator to fit with ET and Jrue any day of the week, as I want Jrue initiating the offense.

Kobblehead · Post #571 » by **Kobblehead** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:41 pm

Props to Martin for hitting his free throws and being a threat from long range. But if a guy is shooting around 42% from the field, that's not cutting it. Everyone calls Ellis a volume shooter, but he sure make a high percentage of those shots, doesn't he?

Post #572 » by **dbodner** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:42 pm

I'm not talking about Draft Express. I'm referring to your various contributions on your sixers oriented sites. And again, i'm not attacking you

It comes into the equation because I write for DraftExpress, and my opinions were formed when I was scouting him for DraftExpress, not for any Sixers site.

Post #573 » by **dbodner** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:43 pm

Kobblehead wrote:Props to Martin for hitting his free throws and being a threat from long range. But if a guy is shooting around 42% from the field, that's not cutting it. Everyone calls Ellis a volume shooter, but he sure make a high percentage of those shots, doesn't he?

We just have an absolutely different opinion of what makes someone an efficient scorer. I care about how many points a player creates with the possessions he uses. FG% does a horrible job of representing that.

Post #574 » by **dbodner** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:45 pm

Focus definitely on scorer and drafting two bigs has taken away interest in dealing with Clips.

That would be the only good news I've heard in weeks.

Skates · Post #575 » by **Skates** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:37 pm

dbodner wrote:
Focus definitely on scorer and drafting two bigs has taken away interest in dealing with Clips.

That would be the only good news I've heard in weeks.

One of my first thoughts when they grabbed Vucevic was that it would wipe away any interest in Kaman, especially since they seem intent on keeping Hawes at least one more year. That made me happy. At some point they need to pair an offensive center with a defensive one or replace Brand with a lanky, shot-blocking intimidator at PF when Brand goes. I see Vucevic as being potentially half of the solution at C, part of a center tandem. I just don't see he and Hawes as being complementary partners there.

sixerswillrule · Post #576 » by **sixerswillrule** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:46 pm

Agreed on the above. I'd prefer that we don't even resign Hawes at all now. We definitely should not overpay to keep him.

sixerfan1976 · Post #577 » by **sixerfan1976** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:49 pm

yeah hawes and vucevic are probably your center tandem this year...doesnt give you a real shot blocker as part of your tandem..but two brad milleresque type guys. Maybe hawes is your starter again to start the year but vucevic gets a chance to win the role by end of year..who knows.

Part of me wonders if they try and get Thabeet in the houston deal just cuz he can block shots..but I think he sucks otherwise.

As for my opinion on Kevin Martin..I think he is a good fit as a scorer and less a ball hog than Ellis. He would fit well if such a move was made. There just arent that many available scorers out there. I lean towards nothing happening this week'/til labor issues are resolved as that could be awhile but ownership is not an major obstacle if Thorn finds something he likes this week. I personally would do the Houston deal....and if given the choice prefer Terrence Williams over Jordan Hill.

51X3RF4N · Post #578 » by **51X3RF4N** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:05 pm

Is Houston actually considering it though?

I'd be okay with Jrue/KMart/Turner/Brand/V.

Meh. You'd get much better offensive production out of that lineup than with Iggy/Hawes.

Defensively Hawes is no better than V in my opinion. And KMart may not be near Iggy defensively, but the Sixers would score 10 more PPG and therefore be okay if allowing a few more point per game.

It'd be more exciting to me as a fan to watch that team.

Gsraider · Post #579 » by **Gsraider** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:09 pm

sixerfan1976 wrote:I personally would do the Houston deal....and if given the choice prefer Terrence Williams over Jordan Hill.

I'm lukewarm on this one too, but I would probably be more interested in Terrance Williams over J. Hill if it got done too. He's a pretty good athleted and defensive prospect on the wing if Iguodala leaves.

bmyers3317 · Post #580 » by **bmyers3317** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:12 pm

sixerfan1976 wrote:yeah hawes and vucevic are probably your center tandem this year...doesnt give you a real shot blocker as part of your tandem..but two brad milleresque type guys. Maybe hawes is your starter again to start the year but vucevic gets a chance to win the role by end of year..who knows.

Part of me wonders if they try and get Thabeet in the houston deal just cuz he can block shots..but I think he sucks otherwise.

As for my opinion on Kevin Martin..I think he is a good fit as a scorer and less a ball hog than Ellis. He would fit well if such a move was made. There just arent that many available scorers out there. I lean towards nothing happening this week'/til labor issues are resolved as that could be awhile but ownership is not an major obstacle if Thorn finds something he likes this week. I personally would do the Houston deal....and if given the choice prefer Terrence Williams over Jordan Hill.

Where did the Houston talk start? Is it something you heard the Sixers were pursuing or Houston?