Around the League - 2019-2020

[Kobblehead]

Why is there never any pushback to the concept that we needed to trade Jrue Holiday to ensure we had the most lotto combinations?

Jrue Holiday and a bunch of trash would never have won more than 25 games.

[Mik317]

I remember when Ish Smith was winning us games. Having a competent PG changes quite a bit.

We also had to trade Turner and Hawes to truly bottom out that year/ The Jrue trade was just step one in not half assing the tank, we got assets for him...regardless of what you think of Noel and Dario...the whole point was to get tons of assets.

to simplify it even more the whole point was to have the ability to make moves when needed. just because our future GMs bungled those moves doesn't mean getting the ammo to do so was a bad idea.

Again the fact that , as flawed as this team currently is, we are very lucky to even be here considering the total fail job we have done w/ all of the tools we had at our disposal. That only happens w/ having a lot to work w/ for honestly one hit. I hate to keep **** on them but the Magic were bad around the same time as us and are very close to be the Doug Collins Sixers as their ceiling unless Fultz turns it around. It can always be worse....

**** we could be the Knicks.

[Kobblehead]

The guy averaging 37 wins per year with Anthony freaking Davis in New Orleans was not going to stop us from being near the top of the lottery.

Through the bulk of Holiday's career, he wasn't even impacting the game at an all-star level. He was like a 14-17 ppg player.

[XDevilBoiX]

Through the bulk of Holiday's career, he wasn't even impacting the game at an all-star level. He was like a 14-17 ppg player.

Would you say getting 2 lottery picks for Jrue was a great deal at the time then? What good player would want to sit thru those awful years? Jrue would’ve asked for a trade and he wouldn’t get that kind of value. No one knew what his plan was and what’s his next moves were. The man kept everything private unlike BC, who got bent over.

[XDevilBoiX]

Kemba got taken off the floor on a stretcher, prayers that he will be ok

[76ciology]

That's because he never got the chance to. Given his terrible draft personnel evaluations, can't we assume he would have made a similar mistake in the guy he eventually cashed in assets for?

I'm sorry, but the guy who drafted Nerlens Noel, Michael Carter-Williams, Dario Saric, and Jahlil Okafor wasn't going to find his Harden through trade.

He probably would have landed on Russell Westbrook.

Yeah. Trading an allstar guard in Jrue over Nerlens is also a big blunder in terms of value. Jrue was injured anyway so we can sit him to lead the tank. Nerlens will never be as good as half of what Jrue is.

And remember how people used to use their wildest imagination on that kings pick that materialized into somebody i dont know who that guy is.

Man.. i bet rondo is way better than that guy.

A lot of his draft picks didn't work out. Some of them did. It's a numbers game. Without the Jrue trade this team doesn't bottom out, and then maybe you don't end up with Joel Embiid. Getting #6 and a future probable lottery pick for Jrue Holiday was a good deal at the time.

We can bottom out without the Jrue deal. Hypothetically. you add Jrue with our team last season, we might have win the championship. If Jrue is on this team now, he would be the clear top 2 guy behind Embiid. If you can remember, Jrue was suffering from an undisclosed injury that lead Pels to almost sue us for trading a damaged goods. And if you can sit out players at will nowadays, imagine how much more if you can evidence that a player is injured.

Yes it was a good deal. But it doesnt stop there. You dont win a champion by playing 12 first round picks. You play the game with 12 players.

The GM’s job doesnt stop from just acquiring picks.

[youngcrev]

Yeah. Trading an allstar guard in Jrue over Nerlens is also a big blunder in terms of value. Jrue was injured anyway so we can sit him to lead the tank. Nerlens will never be as good as half of what Jrue is.

And remember how people used to use their wildest imagination on that kings pick that materialized into somebody i dont know who that guy is.

Man.. i bet rondo is way better than that guy.

A lot of his draft picks didn't work out. Some of them did. It's a numbers game. Without the Jrue trade this team doesn't bottom out, and then maybe you don't end up with Joel Embiid. Getting #6 and a future probable lottery pick for Jrue Holiday was a good deal at the time.

We can bottom out without the Jrue deal. Hypothetically. you add Jrue with our team last season, we might have win the championship. If Jrue is on this team now, he would be the clear top 2 guy behind Embiid. If you can remember, Jrue was suffering from an undisclosed injury that lead Pels to almost sue us for trading a damaged goods. And if you can sit out players at will nowadays, imagine how much more if you can evidence that a player is injured.

Yes it was a good deal. But it doesnt stop there. You dont win a champion by playing 12 first round picks. You play the game with 12 players.

The GM’s job doesnt stop from just acquiring picks.

First, they won 34 games the season before trading him. I don't think they were expecting him to miss the amount of time he did, so minus the hindsight, they were likely looking at what would have been a middle of the pack team. Playing the if you slot him on our team you could win a championship game is kinda pointless because there's no way your team looks anything like the one you had if you kept him. And let's not act like he's some superstar. He's clearly worse than that guy we brought in last year.

Second, they weren't trying to win a championship with 12 1st round picks. They were trying to find stars that you can build a team around while building up their asset chest. Hinkie put the team in amazing position to put a contender together. Just because he got fired before seeing the fruit of his labor doesn't mean he was never going to get out of asset collection mode.

[76ciology]

A lot of his draft picks didn't work out. Some of them did. It's a numbers game. Without the Jrue trade this team doesn't bottom out, and then maybe you don't end up with Joel Embiid. Getting #6 and a future probable lottery pick for Jrue Holiday was a good deal at the time.

We can bottom out without the Jrue deal. Hypothetically. you add Jrue with our team last season, we might have win the championship. If Jrue is on this team now, he would be the clear top 2 guy behind Embiid. If you can remember, Jrue was suffering from an undisclosed injury that lead Pels to almost sue us for trading a damaged goods. And if you can sit out players at will nowadays, imagine how much more if you can evidence that a player is injured.

Yes it was a good deal. But it doesnt stop there. You dont win a champion by playing 12 first round picks. You play the game with 12 players.

The GM’s job doesnt stop from just acquiring picks.

First, they won 34 games the season before trading him. I don't think they were expecting him to miss the amount of time he did, so minus the hindsight, they were likely looking at what would have been a middle of the pack team. Playing the if you slot him on our team you could win a championship game is kinda pointless because there's no way your team looks anything like the one you had if you kept him. And let's not act like he's some superstar. He's clearly worse than that guy we brought in last year.

Second, they weren't trying to win a championship with 12 1st round picks. They were trying to find stars that you can build a team around while building up their asset chest. Hinkie put the team in amazing position to put a contender together. Just because he got fired before seeing the fruit of his labor doesn't mean he was never going to get out of asset collection mode.

Fans valued those assets more than real life GMs. The best example was the Kings pick that wasnt even as close as the value we projected it to be. For okafor and noel, those guys weren’t really as valuable as we think. That’s also why they were passed up even when their value is at their highest (draft night).

GOod thing he got fired because he would have been in constant criticisms if he was still here. Given his track record in materializing asset into talent, i dont think he would have fielded a more talented team that what we have right now.

I’m not saying he’s a terrible GM. My point is, he’s not as good as we would like him to believe to be.

Him not finding a job in the league and the current careers of most of his draft selections would speak for itself.

[youngcrev]

We can bottom out without the Jrue deal. Hypothetically. you add Jrue with our team last season, we might have win the championship. If Jrue is on this team now, he would be the clear top 2 guy behind Embiid. If you can remember, Jrue was suffering from an undisclosed injury that lead Pels to almost sue us for trading a damaged goods. And if you can sit out players at will nowadays, imagine how much more if you can evidence that a player is injured.

Yes it was a good deal. But it doesnt stop there. You dont win a champion by playing 12 first round picks. You play the game with 12 players.

The GM’s job doesnt stop from just acquiring picks.

First, they won 34 games the season before trading him. I don't think they were expecting him to miss the amount of time he did, so minus the hindsight, they were likely looking at what would have been a middle of the pack team. Playing the if you slot him on our team you could win a championship game is kinda pointless because there's no way your team looks anything like the one you had if you kept him. And let's not act like he's some superstar. He's clearly worse than that guy we brought in last year.

Second, they weren't trying to win a championship with 12 1st round picks. They were trying to find stars that you can build a team around while building up their asset chest. Hinkie put the team in amazing position to put a contender together. Just because he got fired before seeing the fruit of his labor doesn't mean he was never going to get out of asset collection mode.

Fans valued those assets more than real life GMs. The best example was the Kings pick that wasnt even as close as the value we projected it to be. For okafor and noel, those guys weren’t really as valuable as we think. That’s also why they were passed up even when their value is at their highest (draft night).

GOod thing he got fired because he would have been in constant criticisms if he was still here. Given his track record in materializing asset into talent, i dont think he would have fielded a more talented team that what we have right now.

I’m not saying he’s a terrible GM. My point is, he’s not as good as we would like him to believe to be.

Him not finding a job in the league and the current careers of most of his draft selections would speak for itself.

Most draft picks don't work out. That's why you want as many shots at the top of the draft as possible. KAT is the only guy drafted in the top-9 that's on the same team from Jah's draft. Cody Zeller is the only guy in the top-9 that's on same team from Nerlens draft. Simmons, Jaylen and Jamal Murray are the only ones in the top 13 still on the team that drafted them from the 2016 draft.

It's simultaneously a crapshoot and your best way to get a star talent to build your team around.

And again, you are looking at what things actually turned into rather than their expected value. While also conveniently ignoring that he drafted an MVP candidate and put us in position to draft Ben Simmons.

[76ciology]

First, they won 34 games the season before trading him. I don't think they were expecting him to miss the amount of time he did, so minus the hindsight, they were likely looking at what would have been a middle of the pack team. Playing the if you slot him on our team you could win a championship game is kinda pointless because there's no way your team looks anything like the one you had if you kept him. And let's not act like he's some superstar. He's clearly worse than that guy we brought in last year.

Second, they weren't trying to win a championship with 12 1st round picks. They were trying to find stars that you can build a team around while building up their asset chest. Hinkie put the team in amazing position to put a contender together. Just because he got fired before seeing the fruit of his labor doesn't mean he was never going to get out of asset collection mode.

Fans valued those assets more than real life GMs. The best example was the Kings pick that wasnt even as close as the value we projected it to be. For okafor and noel, those guys weren’t really as valuable as we think. That’s also why they were passed up even when their value is at their highest (draft night).

GOod thing he got fired because he would have been in constant criticisms if he was still here. Given his track record in materializing asset into talent, i dont think he would have fielded a more talented team that what we have right now.

I’m not saying he’s a terrible GM. My point is, he’s not as good as we would like him to believe to be.

Him not finding a job in the league and the current careers of most of his draft selections would speak for itself.

Most draft picks don't work out. That's why you want as many shots at the top of the draft as possible. KAT is the only guy drafted in the top-9 that's on the same team from Jah's draft. Cody Zeller is the only guy in the top-9 that's on same team from Nerlens draft. Simmons, Jaylen and Jamal Murray are the only ones in the top 13 still on the team that drafted them from the 2016 draft.

It's simultaneously a crapshoot and your best way to get a star talent to build your team around.

And again, you are looking at what things actually turned into rather than their expected value. While also conveniently ignoring that he drafted an MVP candidate and put us in position to draft Ben Simmons.

Yeah, i’m not talking about actual result and not expected value. Which should be the right way to evaluate it.

And regarding drafting Biid, again, he was just lucky because its documented that he wanted Wiggins and even tried to trade up for him. Even I know Wiggins will be a bust, you can backtrack about it.

If Biid didnt get injured that lead Bucks and Wolves to pass him up, it would have been easily..
noel
Wiggins
Okafor
Saric
MCW

After spending 3 years as our GM with like 5 lottery picks and lucking up on Embiid while ending up having Roco as the second best player he added on this team sums up his performance as a GM for this team.

He’s not there with the all time greats. Not even on guys like Presti. Like I said, how the guys he drafted turned up. How the supposedly high draft picks (warchest) turned up. And how he was unable to get another job in the league. Would back up how I feel about him.

We have given him more than the credit he deserved.

[the_process]

Fans valued those assets more than real life GMs. The best example was the Kings pick that wasnt even as close as the value we projected it to be. For okafor and noel, those guys weren’t really as valuable as we think. That’s also why they were passed up even when their value is at their highest (draft night).

GOod thing he got fired because he would have been in constant criticisms if he was still here. Given his track record in materializing asset into talent, i dont think he would have fielded a more talented team that what we have right now.

I’m not saying he’s a terrible GM. My point is, he’s not as good as we would like him to believe to be.

Him not finding a job in the league and the current careers of most of his draft selections would speak for itself.

Most draft picks don't work out. That's why you want as many shots at the top of the draft as possible. KAT is the only guy drafted in the top-9 that's on the same team from Jah's draft. Cody Zeller is the only guy in the top-9 that's on same team from Nerlens draft. Simmons, Jaylen and Jamal Murray are the only ones in the top 13 still on the team that drafted them from the 2016 draft.

It's simultaneously a crapshoot and your best way to get a star talent to build your team around.

And again, you are looking at what things actually turned into rather than their expected value. While also conveniently ignoring that he drafted an MVP candidate and put us in position to draft Ben Simmons.

Yeah, i’m not talking about actual result and not expected value. Which should be the right way to evaluate it.

And regarding drafting Biid, again, he was just lucky because its documented that he wanted Wiggins and even tried to trade up for him. Even I know Wiggins will be a bust, you can backtrack about it.

If Biid didnt get injured that lead Bucks and Wolves to pass him up, it would have been easily..
noel
Wiggins
Okafor
Saric
MCW

After spending 3 years as our GM with like 5 lottery picks and lucking up on Embiid while ending up having Roco as the second best player he added on this team sums up his performance as a GM for this team.

He’s not there with the all time greats. Not even on guys like Presti. Like I said, how the guys he drafted turned up. How the supposedly high draft picks (warchest) turned up. And how he was unable to get another job in the league. Would back up how I feel about him.

We have given him more than the credit he deserved.

Your hate of Hinkie is after the fact and therefore playing Captain Hindsight. If your goal as a franchise is to win championships, you need superstars. The most likely way to get your first superstar is through the draft, and you’re more likely to find a superstar higher in the draft. It’s called playing the odds. This isn’t hard.

Why are we litigating the Process again anyway? Hinkie gathered plenty enough assets that this team could’ve been a juggernaut now even accounting for a mediocre draft record. It’s not his or the Process’ fault that BC and now Elton waste tons of assets.

Now we can go back to talking about how Brett purposely tanks the ends of games to practice potential playoff scenarios.

[youngcrev]

Fans valued those assets more than real life GMs. The best example was the Kings pick that wasnt even as close as the value we projected it to be. For okafor and noel, those guys weren’t really as valuable as we think. That’s also why they were passed up even when their value is at their highest (draft night).

GOod thing he got fired because he would have been in constant criticisms if he was still here. Given his track record in materializing asset into talent, i dont think he would have fielded a more talented team that what we have right now.

I’m not saying he’s a terrible GM. My point is, he’s not as good as we would like him to believe to be.

Him not finding a job in the league and the current careers of most of his draft selections would speak for itself.

Most draft picks don't work out. That's why you want as many shots at the top of the draft as possible. KAT is the only guy drafted in the top-9 that's on the same team from Jah's draft. Cody Zeller is the only guy in the top-9 that's on same team from Nerlens draft. Simmons, Jaylen and Jamal Murray are the only ones in the top 13 still on the team that drafted them from the 2016 draft.

It's simultaneously a crapshoot and your best way to get a star talent to build your team around.

And again, you are looking at what things actually turned into rather than their expected value. While also conveniently ignoring that he drafted an MVP candidate and put us in position to draft Ben Simmons.

Yeah, i’m not talking about actual result and not expected value. Which should be the right way to evaluate it.

And regarding drafting Biid, again, he was just lucky because its documented that he wanted Wiggins and even tried to trade up for him. Even I know Wiggins will be a bust, you can backtrack about it.

If Biid didnt get injured that lead Bucks and Wolves to pass him up, it would have been easily..
noel
Wiggins
Okafor
Saric
MCW

After spending 3 years as our GM with like 5 lottery picks and lucking up on Embiid while ending up having Roco as the second best player he added on this team sums up his performance as a GM for this team.

He’s not there with the all time greats. Not even on guys like Presti. Like I said, how the guys he drafted turned up. How the supposedly high draft picks (warchest) turned up. And how he was unable to get another job in the league. Would back up how I feel about him.

We have given him more than the credit he deserved.

But Embiid did get injured, and im sure there were a ton of GMs would have passed on him in that spot due to the risk. What's it matter if he wouldn't have taken him #1 overall (and we don't even know that to be the cas e)? The Bucks wouldn't have taken Giannis #1 overall, should they not get credit for taking him? I can't imagine Hinkie would have taken Jah #1 overall, should we be more lenient there because he would have taken KAT if the ping pong balls had fallen right?

Nobody is putting up with all time great GMs. He clearly doesn't have the track record of success to even be brought into that discussion. He was very good at deconstructing the team, building assets, and gaining flexibility. We'll never know what the next phase of his plan would have looked like.

[76ciology]

Point is. As a GM your job doesnt stop to just accumulating asset. It’s building a team. Even the asset is not as “warchest” as it is advertised to be.

Dont want to argue anymore about Hinkie’s legacy. I’ll just let the current careers of his draft selections (specially outside embiid), the value right now of those assets he accumulated and his employment speak for themselves

[76ciology]

I think Fultz can regain his shooting in a year or two. He’s already great with his Around the rim, mid range and FT%.

I really believe he can be better than Tatum in the near future

[76ciology]

Buy or sell?

Check doncic stats.

[youngcrev]

Why is there never any pushback to the concept that we needed to trade Jrue Holiday to ensure we had the most lotto combinations?

Jrue Holiday and a bunch of trash would never have won more than 25 games.

They won 34 the year before with him, Thad and a bunch of trash.

[youngcrev]

Point is. As a GM your job doesnt stop from just accumulating asset. It’s building a team. Even the asset is not as “warchest” as it is advertised to be.

Dont want to argue anymore about Hinkie’s legacy. I’ll just let the current careers of his draft selections (specially outside embiid), the value right now of those assets he accumulated and his employment speak for themself.

Good, because it's a silly argument. The situation he came into and the one he left were night and day.

[Kobblehead]

Zach Lavine beefing with Boylen. It's happening! Trade for him!

[phiphan]

Not up to speed on my quantum physics but I doubt there's a universe where Brand/Brown trade for Zach Lavine.

[Kobblehead]

Not up to speed on my quantum physics but I doubt there's a universe where Brand/Brown trade for Zach Lavine.

Yeah, you're probably right. This organization isn't aware of multilevel scoring.