Celtics fans seem to favor Noel

[Ericb5]

If we ship Okafor and keep Noel, then Noel should start at C and Embiid should come off the bench the first year. Embiid will probably be on a ~25 mpg minute restriction the first year anyway.

Agreed for the first year, or at least the beginning of the first year.

I wouldn't have any problem paying Noel market value to be a backup big off of the bench, but I am very concerned that he can only play center, and ideally he could play the 4 and the 5.




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[PhilasFinest]

If we ship Okafor and keep Noel, then Noel should start at C and Embiid should come off the bench the first year. Embiid will probably be on a ~25 mpg minute restriction the first year anyway.

Agreed for the first year, or at least the beginning of the first year.

I wouldn't have any problem paying Noel market value to be a backup big off of the bench, but I am very concerned that he can only play center, and ideally he could play the 4 and the 5.

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Market value is a damn near max deal, if not max. Your paying that to a guy to be your BACKUP center?
Doesn't really make a ton of sense to me. Also, why the hell would Noel sign a deal to be the backup center? He'd likely leave money on the table with us to get a better gig elsewhere.

[theo42]

If we ship Okafor and keep Noel, then Noel should start at C and Embiid should come off the bench the first year. Embiid will probably be on a ~25 mpg minute restriction the first year anyway.

Agreed for the first year, or at least the beginning of the first year.

I wouldn't have any problem paying Noel market value to be a backup big off of the bench, but I am very concerned that he can only play center, and ideally he could play the 4 and the 5.

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Market value is a damn near max deal, if not max. Your paying that to a guy to be your BACKUP center?
Doesn't really make a ton of sense to me. Also, why the hell would Noel sign a deal to be the backup center? He'd likely leave money on the table with us to get a better gig elsewhere.

Would a Tristan Thompson type deal (5yrs 82 million 16 mill a year) work for Noel's situation?

That may be worth it if he is your super defensive specialist off the bench...

[Ericb5]

Agreed for the first year, or at least the beginning of the first year.

I wouldn't have any problem paying Noel market value to be a backup big off of the bench, but I am very concerned that he can only play center, and ideally he could play the 4 and the 5.

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Market value is a damn near max deal, if not max. Your paying that to a guy to be your BACKUP center?
Doesn't really make a ton of sense to me. Also, why the hell would Noel sign a deal to be the backup center? He'd likely leave money on the table with us to get a better gig elsewhere.

Would a Tristan Thompson type deal (5yrs 82 million 16 mill a year) work for Noel's situation?

That may be worth it if he is your super defensive specialist off the bench...

Sure.

He will be worth that in the right situation.


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[PhilasFinest]

Agreed for the first year, or at least the beginning of the first year.

I wouldn't have any problem paying Noel market value to be a backup big off of the bench, but I am very concerned that he can only play center, and ideally he could play the 4 and the 5.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Market value is a damn near max deal, if not max. Your paying that to a guy to be your BACKUP center?
Doesn't really make a ton of sense to me. Also, why the hell would Noel sign a deal to be the backup center? He'd likely leave money on the table with us to get a better gig elsewhere.

Would a Tristan Thompson type deal (5yrs 82 million 16 mill a year) work for Noel's situation?

That may be worth it if he is your super defensive specialist off the bench...

That deal for Thompson isn't really good IMO. They would have been better served going after someone else who is more impactful and fits with their big 3.

That being said, Its easier to sign players to reserved/specialty roles when you have a superstar big 3 intact like the Cavs do.
Our situation is much different. Paying someone 16+ million a year for 5 years to be a backup (a role I'm not convinced Noel will sign up for initially) when you don't even have an established core or at least one locked up semi-long term just doesn't seem like the smartest idea.

Just because we drafted all these kids doesn't mean they are content and loyal to us. Noel as a defensive menace off the bench or Okafor as a scoring machine 6th man off the bench just isn't gonna fly with 23 year old kids looking to make a name for themselves going into their 1st big contracts. There will be better situations for them on the market.

[Ericb5]

Market value is a damn near max deal, if not max. Your paying that to a guy to be your BACKUP center?
Doesn't really make a ton of sense to me. Also, why the hell would Noel sign a deal to be the backup center? He'd likely leave money on the table with us to get a better gig elsewhere.

Would a Tristan Thompson type deal (5yrs 82 million 16 mill a year) work for Noel's situation?

That may be worth it if he is your super defensive specialist off the bench...

That deal for Thompson isn't really good IMO. They would have been better served going after someone else who is more impactful and fits with their big 3.

That being said, Its easier to sign players to reserved/specialty roles when you have a superstar big 3 intact like the Cavs do.
Our situation is much different. Paying someone 16+ million a year for 5 years to be a backup (a role I'm not convinced Noel will sign up for initially) when you don't even have an established core or at least one locked up semi-long term just doesn't seem like the smartest idea.

Just because we drafted all these kids doesn't mean they are content and loyal to us. Noel as a defensive menace off the bench or Okafor as a scoring machine 6th man off the bench just isn't gonna fly with 23 year old kids looking to make a name for themselves going into their 1st big contracts. There will be better situations for them on the market.

By the time that we have to pay him I think hat we WILL have an established core.

In actuality, I think that we already DO have our core as in Simmons and Embiid, but another year will give us further confirmation of that.


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[PhilasFinest]

Would a Tristan Thompson type deal (5yrs 82 million 16 mill a year) work for Noel's situation?

That may be worth it if he is your super defensive specialist off the bench...

That deal for Thompson isn't really good IMO. They would have been better served going after someone else who is more impactful and fits with their big 3.

That being said, Its easier to sign players to reserved/specialty roles when you have a superstar big 3 intact like the Cavs do.
Our situation is much different. Paying someone 16+ million a year for 5 years to be a backup (a role I'm not convinced Noel will sign up for initially) when you don't even have an established core or at least one locked up semi-long term just doesn't seem like the smartest idea.

Just because we drafted all these kids doesn't mean they are content and loyal to us. Noel as a defensive menace off the bench or Okafor as a scoring machine 6th man off the bench just isn't gonna fly with 23 year old kids looking to make a name for themselves going into their 1st big contracts. There will be better situations for them on the market.

By the time that we have to pay him I think hat we WILL have an established core.

In actuality, I think that we already DO have our core as in Simmons and Embiid, but another year will give us further confirmation of that.


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If Simmons and Embiid are your core, you don't spend 16+ Million a year on Noel to be a backup.
Your going to need the money to retain Embiid/Simmons and put pieces around them, which if were winning will likely include a high level perimeter player.

[Ericb5]

That deal for Thompson isn't really good IMO. They would have been better served going after someone else who is more impactful and fits with their big 3.

That being said, Its easier to sign players to reserved/specialty roles when you have a superstar big 3 intact like the Cavs do.
Our situation is much different. Paying someone 16+ million a year for 5 years to be a backup (a role I'm not convinced Noel will sign up for initially) when you don't even have an established core or at least one locked up semi-long term just doesn't seem like the smartest idea.

Just because we drafted all these kids doesn't mean they are content and loyal to us. Noel as a defensive menace off the bench or Okafor as a scoring machine 6th man off the bench just isn't gonna fly with 23 year old kids looking to make a name for themselves going into their 1st big contracts. There will be better situations for them on the market.

By the time that we have to pay him I think hat we WILL have an established core.

In actuality, I think that we already DO have our core as in Simmons and Embiid, but another year will give us further confirmation of that.


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If Simmons and Embiid are your core, you don't spend 16+ Million a year on Noel to be a backup.
Your going to need the money to retain Embiid/Simmons and put pieces around them, which if were winning will likely include a high level perimeter player.

You may be right.

I guess that in saying that I think that Noel is worth a good contract. If it isn't with us then so be it, but he will justify a contract like that imo.


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[PhilasFinest]

By the time that we have to pay him I think hat we WILL have an established core.

In actuality, I think that we already DO have our core as in Simmons and Embiid, but another year will give us further confirmation of that.


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If Simmons and Embiid are your core, you don't spend 16+ Million a year on Noel to be a backup.
Your going to need the money to retain Embiid/Simmons and put pieces around them, which if were winning will likely include a high level perimeter player.

You may be right.

I guess that in saying that I think that Noel is worth a good contract. If it isn't with us then so be it, but he will justify a contract like that imo.


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Oh I agree 100% that Noel is worth that type of deal. Im not against him at all.

Im simply saying that he is not worth that contract to US, if he is not the starting center on the team. If Embiid/Simmons are your future core (which is TBD) Then it would make sense to move Nerlens while you still can get value.

Im fine with keeping him around, but his contract situation makes it harder. Its not like he's a rookie and we have a few years to tinker and see how it pans out.

[HotelVitale]

That deal for Thompson isn't really good IMO. They would have been better served going after someone else who is more impactful and fits with their big 3.

They were well over the cap so they couldn't 'go after' anyone. That's the whole reason for them overpaying--there was no other means of collecting talent to go with the big 3 except re-signing who they had, hence the above-market deals for Shump, JR, and TT.

Also, there's really no need to worry about RFAs walking, especially those you're willing to pay well. We've seen exactly two somewhat valued guys ever take QOs and leave (Ben Gordon and G Monroe), and in both cases the original team didn't really want the player and refused to pay them more than solid starter money. It's more or less axiomatic that the RFA will stay with you if you offer them a decent deal (even if it's a little more than what you want to pay).

[sixers4real]

If we ship Okafor and keep Noel, then Noel should start at C and Embiid should come off the bench the first year. Embiid will probably be on a ~25 mpg minute restriction the first year anyway.

Agreed for the first year, or at least the beginning of the first year.

I wouldn't have any problem paying Noel market value to be a backup big off of the bench, but I am very concerned that he can only play center, and ideally he could play the 4 and the 5.

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Market value is a damn near max deal, if not max. Your paying that to a guy to be your BACKUP center?
Doesn't really make a ton of sense to me. Also, why the hell would Noel sign a deal to be the backup center? He'd likely leave money on the table with us to get a better gig elsewhere.

Well, I'll go I little off topic with you.
To figure out Sixers cap and Noel contract situation.
If BC is smart enough not to waste our money this summer.
And does things like that:
Okafor + 24 + 26 for Dunn + combo guard (Knight/Smart/Bradley) - I'll dream it's Knight
MAX FA at SG - Barnes, Fournier, DeRozan (I'll dream its Fournier)

2016/17 (mil)
C-Embiid(4,8)/Noel(4,4)/Holmes(1)
PF-Simmons(6)/Saric(2,4)/Landry(6,8)
SF-Covington(1)/Grant(1)/Thompson(1)
SG-Fournier(20)/Knight(13)/Stauskas(3)
PG-Dunn(4)/Knight/McConnell(1)

total of 70 mil with cap about 90 mil.
thats 27-30 team win. Good for top 5 draft pick.
Next year the only FA we resign is Noel. 5 years (90 mil)
Let go Landry, Thompson, Stauskas.
Draft Jackson or Tatum (dream SF for that team)

2017/18:
C-Embiid(6)/Noel(18)/Holmes(1)
PF-Simmons(6,5)/Saric(3)
SF-Tatum(5,5)/Covington(1)/Grant(1)
SG-Fournier(21)/Knight(14)
PG-Dunn(5)/Knight/McConnell(1)

total of 83 + 10 mil for some vet = 93 mil with cap of 108 mil

Summer 2018, only 3 free agent of that roster are:
Embiid (max), Roco and Grant (keep em if the price is right), get somebody like them if not.
Basically playing 2018/19 as a good playoff team and still under cap.

My point is keep Noel, we need him and we can sign him next summer to a contract like 90mil/5 years.
His rim protecting, energy of the bench will be amazing. Embiid will miss some games, and he will be in foul trouble some games.
I'm all for keeping Noel and trading Okafor.

[celticfan42487]

Celtic fan here: part of the reason some fans (myself including) favor Noel over Embiid 100% is because of Steven's system.

Aside from your team, we don't have the players to play to our system and yet stick to it without any conscious compared to any team in the NBA.

And that offensive system really is one where big men shoot jump shots and set picks. Maybe they roll. We almost never do a low post play ( I know Okafor has been getting the ball a lot at the high post iso and rolling... that's basically a post play for him while also circumventing the zone defenses of today from fing over the entry pass). We would just never use Okafor in his ideal low post role and frankly his value is solely as a low post option for an offense. He doesn't bring anything else to the table.

And you say "well surely your coach will adjust" to which I say look at our numbers. We were 11th in the NBA with 3 point attempts with a 28th rank in 3 point percentage.

Only the Grizzles and Lakers edged us out for being the worst 3 point shooting team in the NBA and yet for most of the season we were top 10 in attempts.

In any other scenario that gets your head coach fired. But we're firm believers in "try the pick and roll... if that fails then chuck a 3". And this is a team with 0 talent shooting the basketball.

But our defense and this approach has won us games and only justified Steven's approach even when he doesn't have the players to play it properly.

So we're much more interested in Noel because it doesn't look like Stevens is going anywhere, if he is it won't be a for a couple of years because he's already won using his system without any player capable of playing it correctly, and Noel can fit into that system kind of like how Tyson Chandler did for the Mavs. Or like how Amir Johnson did for us this year.

As for Okafor... he doesn't really have any talent for a Stevens coached Celtics team. Also, like you we have about 60 million free in cap space, and we have to use it but no star will come to our team. So we might as well get a season of Noel in to test him out before we dump a max contract on him.

I wouldn't be upset with a #3 for Noel straight up. But even if it turns out to be a say a #3 and the #16 pick for Noel and the Lakers pick next season I don't think you guys would mind that trade too much either. And that is relatively fair.

[eagereyez]

I wouldn't be upset with a #3 for Noel straight up. But even if it turns out to be a say a #3 and the #16 pick for Noel and the Lakers pick next season I don't think you guys would mind that trade too much either. And that is relatively fair.

The Lakers pick will likely be top 10 in a loaded draft next year. That is asking way too much. Noel and 24/26 is a more realistic offer.

[celticfan42487]

I wouldn't be upset with a #3 for Noel straight up. But even if it turns out to be a say a #3 and the #16 pick for Noel and the Lakers pick next season I don't think you guys would mind that trade too much either. And that is relatively fair.

The Lakers pick will likely be top 10 in a loaded draft next year. That is asking way too much. Noel and 24/26 is a more realistic offer.

Oh I guess I just over estimate the Lakers free agency appeal. And perhaps the lack of good teams in the west.

If you were a .500 team in the West last year were the 7th team. Isn't that hard to do.

And an Russel, Derozen, Ingram, Randle team might be enough to pull that off. Let alone any trade for a disgruntled star. But yeah if it's a top 10 pick instead of a non lottery pick in a deeper class then yeah that's a tad much.

[eagereyez]

I wouldn't be upset with a #3 for Noel straight up. But even if it turns out to be a say a #3 and the #16 pick for Noel and the Lakers pick next season I don't think you guys would mind that trade too much either. And that is relatively fair.

The Lakers pick will likely be top 10 in a loaded draft next year. That is asking way too much. Noel and 24/26 is a more realistic offer.

Oh I guess I just over estimate the Lakers free agency appeal. And perhaps the lack of good teams in the west.

If you were a .500 team in the West last year were the 7th team. Isn't that hard to do.

And an Russel, Derozen, Ingram, Randle team might be enough to pull that off. Let alone any trade for a disgruntled star. But yeah if it's a top 10 pick instead of a non lottery pick in a deeper class then yeah that's a tad much.

I can't name 5 teams in the NBA that a squad of Russell/Derozan/Ingram/Randle would be better than. Sure you only need to reach .500 to be in the playoffs, but for the 17 win Lakers that might as well be the NBA championship. Ingram will be a 19 year old rookie, Randle and Russell will be sophomores. They tried to be active in free agency last year and the best they could do was Roy Hibbert. I think the Sixers will improve more in the win column than the Lakers.

[spikeslovechild]

Agreed for the first year, or at least the beginning of the first year.

I wouldn't have any problem paying Noel market value to be a backup big off of the bench, but I am very concerned that he can only play center, and ideally he could play the 4 and the 5.

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Market value is a damn near max deal, if not max. Your paying that to a guy to be your BACKUP center?
Doesn't really make a ton of sense to me. Also, why the hell would Noel sign a deal to be the backup center? He'd likely leave money on the table with us to get a better gig elsewhere.

Well, I'll go I little off topic with you.
To figure out Sixers cap and Noel contract situation.
If BC is smart enough not to waste our money this summer.
And does things like that:
Okafor + 24 + 26 for Dunn + combo guard (Knight/Smart/Bradley) - I'll dream it's Knight
MAX FA at SG - Barnes, Fournier, DeRozan (I'll dream its Fournier)

2016/17 (mil)
C-Embiid(4,8)/Noel(4,4)/Holmes(1)
PF-Simmons(6)/Saric(2,4)/Landry(6,8)
SF-Covington(1)/Grant(1)/Thompson(1)
SG-Fournier(20)/Knight(13)/Stauskas(3)
PG-Dunn(4)/Knight/McConnell(1)

total of 70 mil with cap about 90 mil.
thats 27-30 team win. Good for top 5 draft pick.
Next year the only FA we resign is Noel. 5 years (90 mil)
Let go Landry, Thompson, Stauskas.
Draft Jackson or Tatum (dream SF for that team)

2017/18:
C-Embiid(6)/Noel(18)/Holmes(1)
PF-Simmons(6,5)/Saric(3)
SF-Tatum(5,5)/Covington(1)/Grant(1)
SG-Fournier(21)/Knight(14)
PG-Dunn(5)/Knight/McConnell(1)

total of 83 + 10 mil for some vet = 93 mil with cap of 108 mil

Summer 2018, only 3 free agent of that roster are:
Embiid (max), Roco and Grant (keep em if the price is right), get somebody like them if not.
Basically playing 2018/19 as a good playoff team and still under cap.

My point is keep Noel, we need him and we can sign him next summer to a contract like 90mil/5 years.
His rim protecting, energy of the bench will be amazing. Embiid will miss some games, and he will be in foul trouble some games.
I'm all for keeping Noel and trading Okafor.

Why would you trade Okafor who is on the second year of his rookie deal and sign Noel to a 5 year 90 million dollar extension? When you don't even know if you have a starting spot in your lineup for him moving forward.

What we need to do is move Noel for a comparable young player who can solve a position of need. It's going to be hard to get equal value for him this is where BC needs to put on his big boy pants and work to find a deal. He needs to be working with PHX to see if they are interested in moving one of their guards or the 4th overall pick for him. Maybe, you call up MIL and see if they are looking to put a defensive center next to Monroe. Maybe, you call up the Lakers and say look will you accept Russell for Noel. You call up the bulls and say with Gasol and Noah walking would you be willing to accept a package centered around Noel for Butler.

[ET Da Gawd]

Send Noel, we aint paying 16+ mill a year for a substandard offensive player when we have Jahlil on a rookie contract.

[mksp]

Celtic fan here: part of the reason some fans (myself including) favor Noel over Embiid 100% is because of Steven's system.

Aside from your team, we don't have the players to play to our system and yet stick to it without any conscious compared to any team in the NBA.

And that offensive system really is one where big men shoot jump shots and set picks. Maybe they roll. We almost never do a low post play ( I know Okafor has been getting the ball a lot at the high post iso and rolling... that's basically a post play for him while also circumventing the zone defenses of today from fing over the entry pass). We would just never use Okafor in his ideal low post role and frankly his value is solely as a low post option for an offense. He doesn't bring anything else to the table.

And you say "well surely your coach will adjust" to which I say look at our numbers. We were 11th in the NBA with 3 point attempts with a 28th rank in 3 point percentage.

Only the Grizzles and Lakers edged us out for being the worst 3 point shooting team in the NBA and yet for most of the season we were top 10 in attempts.

In any other scenario that gets your head coach fired. But we're firm believers in "try the pick and roll... if that fails then chuck a 3". And this is a team with 0 talent shooting the basketball.

But our defense and this approach has won us games and only justified Steven's approach even when he doesn't have the players to play it properly.

So we're much more interested in Noel because it doesn't look like Stevens is going anywhere, if he is it won't be a for a couple of years because he's already won using his system without any player capable of playing it correctly, and Noel can fit into that system kind of like how Tyson Chandler did for the Mavs. Or like how Amir Johnson did for us this year.

As for Okafor... he doesn't really have any talent for a Stevens coached Celtics team. Also, like you we have about 60 million free in cap space, and we have to use it but no star will come to our team. So we might as well get a season of Noel in to test him out before we dump a max contract on him.

I wouldn't be upset with a #3 for Noel straight up. But even if it turns out to be a say a #3 and the #16 pick for Noel and the Lakers pick next season I don't think you guys would mind that trade too much either. And that is relatively fair.

I would drive to Philly, find Bryan Colangelo, and personally punch him in the face if he consolidated Nerlens Noel *and* the LA pick for the 3rd pick in this draft.

[Foshan]

Yeah something around Noel for 3 I'd prefer over Okafor for 3. I'd love to talk about something that could get us 16... but the LAL pick is not a reasonable piece to try to include. IMO that has way more value than the #3 this year.

[sixers4real]

Market value is a damn near max deal, if not max. Your paying that to a guy to be your BACKUP center?
Doesn't really make a ton of sense to me. Also, why the hell would Noel sign a deal to be the backup center? He'd likely leave money on the table with us to get a better gig elsewhere.

Well, I'll go I little off topic with you.
To figure out Sixers cap and Noel contract situation.
If BC is smart enough not to waste our money this summer.
And does things like that:
Okafor + 24 + 26 for Dunn + combo guard (Knight/Smart/Bradley) - I'll dream it's Knight
MAX FA at SG - Barnes, Fournier, DeRozan (I'll dream its Fournier)

2016/17 (mil)
C-Embiid(4,8)/Noel(4,4)/Holmes(1)
PF-Simmons(6)/Saric(2,4)/Landry(6,8)
SF-Covington(1)/Grant(1)/Thompson(1)
SG-Fournier(20)/Knight(13)/Stauskas(3)
PG-Dunn(4)/Knight/McConnell(1)

total of 70 mil with cap about 90 mil.
thats 27-30 team win. Good for top 5 draft pick.
Next year the only FA we resign is Noel. 5 years (90 mil)
Let go Landry, Thompson, Stauskas.
Draft Jackson or Tatum (dream SF for that team)

2017/18:
C-Embiid(6)/Noel(18)/Holmes(1)
PF-Simmons(6,5)/Saric(3)
SF-Tatum(5,5)/Covington(1)/Grant(1)
SG-Fournier(21)/Knight(14)
PG-Dunn(5)/Knight/McConnell(1)

total of 83 + 10 mil for some vet = 93 mil with cap of 108 mil

Summer 2018, only 3 free agent of that roster are:
Embiid (max), Roco and Grant (keep em if the price is right), get somebody like them if not.
Basically playing 2018/19 as a good playoff team and still under cap.

My point is keep Noel, we need him and we can sign him next summer to a contract like 90mil/5 years.
His rim protecting, energy of the bench will be amazing. Embiid will miss some games, and he will be in foul trouble some games.
I'm all for keeping Noel and trading Okafor.

Why would you trade Okafor who is on the second year of his rookie deal and sign Noel to a 5 year 90 million dollar extension? When you don't even know if you have a starting spot in your lineup for him moving forward.

What we need to do is move Noel for a comparable young player who can solve a position of need. It's going to be hard to get equal value for him this is where BC needs to put on his big boy pants and work to find a deal. He needs to be working with PHX to see if they are interested in moving one of their guards or the 4th overall pick for him. Maybe, you call up MIL and see if they are looking to put a defensive center next to Monroe. Maybe, you call up the Lakers and say look will you accept Russell for Noel. You call up the bulls and say with Gasol and Noah walking would you be willing to accept a package centered around Noel for Butler.

Because Okafor makes NO SENSE with Embiid and Simmons. And he's got more value than Noel right now. How much playing time you got for Okafor if Embiid is healthy, Simmons is #1, and Saric comes over?