2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread III

[PLO]

I'm not sure Jackson is going to be the defender some think he will be in the NBA - I doubt he'll be able to defend multiple positions. I think he's over-rated as a defender on the basis of his exceptional form on that end in the first month or so of the college season. If you look at his season as a whole and you take into account his advanced age I think you have a decent-good NBA defender, not a great one.

[Unbreakable99]

What about Tatum's defense? How would you guys rank Tatum Jackson and Isaac as far as defending their particular position?

[LloydFree]

What about Tatum's defense? How would you guys rank Tatum Jackson and Isaac as far as defending their particular position?

I think Tatum is a distant 3rd to those other two as far as Defensive potential. He's nowhere near as mobile or quick as Jackson and he doesn't have the lateral movement or the length Isaac possesses. Isaac has the potential to be an impact defender of the pick-n-roll and help defender in the paint. Jackson has the potential to be a lockdown perimeter defender. Tatum should be very competent, but I don't think he will be exceptional in the NBA.

[Mik317]

can we stop acting like being 20 is advanced age?

[Kobblehead]

Tatum was an excellent defender as a freshman. Wondering if his lack of plus athleticism will prevent that from translating is a legit take, though.

Personally, I think his defensive instincts will allow him to be a good defender at the NBA level. As long as his energy expenditure isn't skewed too much offensively. Once again, the Danny Granger comp is apt.

[Negrodamus]

As we get closer to the draft, I'm having a harder time taking many of these freshman PGs over Donovan Mitchell.

[Unbreakable99]

As we get closer to the draft, I'm having a harder time taking many of these freshman PGs over Donovan Mitchell.

Where do you rank him?

[Negrodamus]

As we get closer to the draft, I'm having a harder time taking many of these freshman PGs over Donovan Mitchell.

Where do you rank him?

I'm not sure. I'd have to look at all the prospects again to get an idea. I'll do it later tonight.

[Sixerscan]

Tatum was an excellent defender as a freshman. Wondering if his lack of plus athleticism will prevent that from translating is a legit take, though.

Personally, I think his defensive instincts will allow him to be a good defender at the NBA level. As long as his energy expenditure isn't skewed too much offensively. Once again, the Danny Granger comp is apt.

He has a good nose for the ball but his fundamentals, footwork etc. need a lot of work. Which seems to be a consistent issue with all of these 1 and dones coming out of Duke.

[cksdayoff]

As we get closer to the draft, I'm having a harder time taking many of these freshman PGs over Donovan Mitchell.

mitchell was disappointing shooting-wise towards the end of the season and in the tournament

[LloydFree]

As far as tools and skills are concerned, Isaac is one of the best 4 players in this draft. His only issues are his future physical development and whether he has the alpha make-up that the very good players generally have. If he's weak and doesn't have the 'make-up', he could end up struggling early and glued to the bench like Brendan Wright or even Noah Vonleh.

I don't disagree much. But just to nitpick, I would put Isaac in the top three as far as tools (length, wingspan). Yet, I would put him around six when it comes to skills. To me, DSJ is probably the most skilled player in the draft, but for his extremely serious injury history and uneven performance this past year...

Baseball has the 5 tools: Hitting/Power/Glove/Throwing/Running and grade on a 2-8 scale. So if I did the same with basketball I'd use:
Shooting/Ball handling/Court awareness/length/Athleticism​

Lonzo Ball: 6/5/7/6/5
J. Jackson: 4/6/7/5/7
D. Smith Jr: 5/7/6/3/7
Mark. Fultz: 6/5/5/6/5
John Isaac: 6/5/5/7/5
Jas. Tatum: 5/6/6/5/5

[Negrodamus]

As we get closer to the draft, I'm having a harder time taking many of these freshman PGs over Donovan Mitchell.

mitchell was disappointing shooting-wise towards the end of the season and in the tournament

Fultz, Ball, Smith were disappointing all season defense-wise

[Sixerscan]

As far as tools and skills are concerned, Isaac is one of the best 4 players in this draft. His only issues are his future physical development and whether he has the alpha make-up that the very good players generally have. If he's weak and doesn't have the 'make-up', he could end up struggling early and glued to the bench like Brendan Wright or even Noah Vonleh.

I don't disagree much. But just to nitpick, I would put Isaac in the top three as far as tools (length, wingspan). Yet, I would put him around six when it comes to skills. To me, DSJ is probably the most skilled player in the draft, but for his extremely serious injury history and uneven performance this past year...

Baseball has the 5 tools: Hitting/Power/Glove/Throwing/Running and grade on a 2-8 scale. So if I did the same with basketball I'd use:
Shooting/Ball handling/Court awareness/length/Athleticism​

Lonzo Ball: 6/5/7/6/5
J. Jackson: 4/6/7/5/7
D. Smith Jr: 5/7/6/3/7
Mark. Fultz: 6/5/5/6/5
John Isaac: 6/5/5/7/5
Jas. Tatum: 5/6/6/5/5

Fultz has worse ball handling than Tatum/equal to Isaac?

[LloydFree]

I don't disagree much. But just to nitpick, I would put Isaac in the top three as far as tools (length, wingspan). Yet, I would put him around six when it comes to skills. To me, DSJ is probably the most skilled player in the draft, but for his extremely serious injury history and uneven performance this past year...

Baseball has the 5 tools: Hitting/Power/Glove/Throwing/Running and grade on a 2-8 scale. So if I did the same with basketball I'd use:
Shooting/Ball handling/Court awareness/length/Athleticism​

Lonzo Ball: 6/5/7/6/5
J. Jackson: 4/6/7/5/7
D. Smith Jr: 5/7/6/3/7
Mark. Fultz: 6/5/5/6/5
John Isaac: 6/5/5/7/5
Jas. Tatum: 5/6/6/5/5

Fultz has worse ball handling than Tatum/equal to Isaac?

No. Ball handling (also shooting and length) is relative to position, IMO. Jackson and Tatum are better​ ball-handlers as projected NBA Forwards, than Fultz is as a projected NBA PG. Tatum would be among the best ballhandling forwards in the game day 1. Fultz would be in the back half of all starting PGs, as far as ball-handling, IMO.

[Sixerscan]

Baseball has the 5 tools: Hitting/Power/Glove/Throwing/Running and grade on a 2-8 scale. So if I did the same with basketball I'd use:
Shooting/Ball handling/Court awareness/length/Athleticism​

Lonzo Ball: 6/5/7/6/5
J. Jackson: 4/6/7/5/7
D. Smith Jr: 5/7/6/3/7
Mark. Fultz: 6/5/5/6/5
John Isaac: 6/5/5/7/5
Jas. Tatum: 5/6/6/5/5

Fultz has worse ball handling than Tatum/equal to Isaac?

No. Ball handling (also shooting and length) is relative to position, IMO. Jackson and Tatum are better​ ball-handlers as projected NBA Forwards, than Fultz is as a projected NBA PG. Tatum would be among the best ballhandling forwards in the game day 1. Fultz would be in the back half of all starting PGs, as far as ball-handling, IMO.

Oh ok gotcha, that's not how they do it in baseball though.

[ivysixer2000]

If its not Fultz, and not Fox, then I would prefer size. If you saw that game in the NCAA tourny, Fox took Ball to school, and made him go to summer school.

If we are #5 or #6 then I think about Ball. I only think about Isaac if we have the lakers pick, then that opens it up for DSJ.

[51X3RF4N]

Crazy. I've been on the Fultz/Monk train for a while now, thinking we needed at least 1 guard out of the draft this whole time.

Last night, after not seeing any news from Brown, Colangelo, etc or reading this forum, I was daydreaming about the Sixers and came to a conclusion.

Maybe Isaac is the target in the draft. I remembered we have Bayless, and I thought I bet the brass thinks Bayless is a perfect fit at G next to Simmons/RoCo. So Covington covers 2s, Simmons 3s, Bayless 1s, and on offense Bayless helps carry the PG load while being an off ball shooter as well.

He's also a vet, and brass likes vets. Isaac pushes Saric and even replaces him in the starting lineup one day, allowing Saric to be a very good 6th man.

Isaac and Embiid is a heck of a good defensive combo.

Simmons, Bayless, Covington, Isaac, Embiid with TJ, TLC, Anderson, Saric, and Holmes off the bench.

Trade Okafor and Stauskas for future picks. If the Lakers pick conveys, you pick up Monk to come off the bench for Bayless. If not no worries.

My other alternative theory was the Sixers put together a massive trade offer for one of the young star wings using picks, and Simmons/Embiid/Star take them to the playoffs.

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[cksdayoff]

I'm not sold on Isaac

[Kobblehead]

Alpha Kaba gotta be one of our 2nd round picks, man.

[Eyeamok]

As long as his attitude and confidence are high, I think playing Ingram 30+ minutes a night is the best way for him to learn.

Just let him drink from the firehose until the game starts to get easier for him.


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Letting him drink from the firehose is such a horrible way to learn. It's an easy way to compound your mistakes and develop a lot of bad habits. Sitting on the bench and watching someone else do what you should do then going in and dong it has proven to be much more effective way of learning.

But Ingram is the Lakers problem not ours so have at it.

And even though I hate the fact that Simmons did not play the entire season. If he is on the same development/study program that Embiid was on. He should be more court aware next season which is great for the team.

Since when is allowing a young player to learn by playing a bad thing? Dallas sent Dirk out there before he was ready to compete and he looked terrible for two years, before he caught up. You either have the talent or you don't. He's not strong enough to look good. If he fails, it won't be because they gave him too many minutes in his rookie year, it will be because he doesn't have the talent or skills.

Nothing wrong in letting young players play. I just question the firehose method. Ingram played more minutes than any rookie this year. Every team has a sports performance department, but there is not one standard set of rules that everyone agrees on. So perhaps the Lakers looked at him and said "Yes play him as much as possible. Its good for him." I just don't like that method. Especially when the player is very erratic.

Dirks horrible first year, he only played 47 games at 20 minutes per game. Hardly a firehouse. His second year he averaged 17.5 points, 6.5 rebounds and 2.5 assists per game at 35 minutes per game. I would not call that horrible.

Before he came to the NBA Dirk had played at a high international level, since he was 17 and he had a lot of high level private coaching too. And add to that Cuban brought in a better standard once he purchased the team. A standard that Dirk himself has said he benefited from. I don't think Ingram has had the benefit of as much seasoning as Dirk had. Dirk just basically had to catch up. People had seen him play internationally and against NBA players to know what his potential was. All in all Dirk was much more ready physically and mentally to handle major minutes than I believe Ingram was and is.

But thats just my opinion not a fact. And it's a Lakers problem not a 76ers problem so I am not invested in how the Lakers choose to play him.