***Sixerfan1976 Official Thread - Update Page 28***

[tk76]

I hope we don't trade Turner. I'd rather see Iguodala go before him. Turner hasn't even gotten a shot yet.

Totally agree, watch all the bandwagon fans jump on this year.

I'd say 99% of fans would prefer Iguodala traded over Turner. In fact probably 2/3rds of fans probably just want Iguodala gone, period. So I don't understand what point you are making. Most people are much higher on ET than Igiuodala, despite Turners struggles as a rookie.

[tk76]

IMO Jrue/Martin/Iguodala/Brand/C would give you a pretty well balanced playoff team for the next 2 years. Somewhat like Sam at C would work.

Then in 2-3 yrs you let Brand, Iguodala and Martin walk and try and slot in some max FA's next to Jrue.

It depends what else you get in the deal, since their salaries don't match. If your goal is to be better than Miami then you really have zero hope in the next 4 years regardless of what you do. But I do think a team of Jrue/Martin/Iggy/Brand and say Okafor could win 55 games and be extremely dangerous. They just are unlikely to have a good chance at a title.

Right now Iguodala, Jrue and Brand are very good NBA players. Turner may or may not be as good as those guys- but he certainly was not last year. If you decide to go young then by all means keep Jrue and Turner. But I would not say ET has shown enough promise to be untouchable given his skill set is redundant on a team with Iguodala and Jrue.

Jrue would have to make quite the leap for that team to win that many games next season.

This year the team won 41 games with Jrue at age 20, Meeks at SG and Hawes at C.
1. You would lose Turener, but Turner did not really give you anything last year, so that part would not cost them wins compared to last season (although would obviously hurt their future.)

2. Jrue will be better next year. I'm expecting a big jump based on his age and progression so far. He was basically an average NBA PG at age 20. Give him a great scorer (Martin) and a great post defender (Okafor) and I expect him to morph into a top 10 PG.

3. Iggy was banged up all last year. Let him have a summer off and I expect him to be back 100%. Put him next to Martin and he can assume the Robin role he was made for. So he will be both improved and better utilized.

4. Upgrade from Hawes to a Okafor type defender and all of the sudden this is a top 5 NBA defense. Everyone but Martin would be a good to great defender.

5. The chemistry would be perfect. Jrue/Martin/Iguodala are ideally matched in terms of talents. While putting someone like Okafor next to Brand would be formidable on both ends.

So 50 wins easily. 55 wins with the Collins factor.

[51X3RF4N]

what about salary cap? Iggy/Martin/Brand/Okafor???

[sixerswillrule]

The Collins factor played into the 41 win total from last season. I'd say that 50 wins would be attainable but 55 seems like a reach.
My point is that we would still not be in a position to have a chance to win it all, so we would be better off in keeping Turner. We obviously would be a better team, but closer to the Magic/Hawks level than the Bulls/Heat level.

[Gsraider]

The Collins factor played into the 41 win total from last season. I'd say that 50 wins would be attainable but 55 seems like a reach.
My point is that we would still not be in a position to have a chance to win it all, so we would be better off in keeping Turner. We obviously would be a better team, but closer to the Magic/Hawks level than the Bulls/Heat level.

I agree with the second part in terms of what level they would be on, but I'm not sure the 55 win mark would be that much of a reach when you consider how abysmal the team started last year (3-13) and Iguodala's injury woes. If they come out of the gate healthy, with more scoring punch, and maintain good chemistry, I don't think it's a huge reach. What would be a huge reach would be the thought of them being close to the level of MIA.

[bmyers3317]

I am pointing out the fact that when he was given a chance to play over 30 minutes he was more productive then most of the players getting minutes over him. He wasn't drafted by a team or coach that was going to give him major minutes as a rookie and I agree with how Collins handled him. I think after a year of learning we are going to see the player we thought we had last June and I think we began to see him in the playoffs. I just love how cluless some people are that wright him off already (not you) they are the same people who would of called Dirk a bust after he averaged 8 points and 3 rebounds as a rookie shooting 40% from the floor and 20% from three. Rookies struggle and are given a much shorter leash on good teams. He should get more minutes than Meeks and Lou this year or something is wrong with the Sixers brass' talent evaluation.

[ZarcMumoff]

How can the same people who like Monta Ellis, not like Kevin Martin?

I'm not even paying attention until after July 1st...that is when things will get serious again.

Nothing is going to get serious when there is a lockout on July 1st.

That's what I said AFTER. After July 1st...after the lockout...new CBA.

#takenoutofcontextsmartass

[Skates]

I would trade Turner for another young guy who better fits a need or in a package for someone like CP3.

I would not trade him for someone like Ellis or Martin. Go young or go for it all, anything in between is just hurting our draft position with some deep drafts coming up.

[tk76]

Yeah, I'm definitely not writing Turner off. I just don't think he was productive at all last year.

His per 36 min production:

11/6/3 on .425 shooting. PER of 10.8. But it is much worse when you look deeper. He only drew 2.5 FTA per 36 min. IIRC His TS% and eFG were among the worst 5 in the NBA for guys with 15+ minutes/game. That is a big issue that he must improve on.

Fortunately we can try and write off his rookie year and expect better things to come. But at age 23 he better have a quick learning curve. And it is not a sure thing that he will be as good as Iguodala or Jrue. And since he needs the ball to be effective he better be good, or else he will not be a net positive for a good team.

So I still have high hopes for Turner, but he really needs to elevate his game next year. It goes beyond simply needing more of an opportunity.

[tk76]

I am pointing out the fact that when he was given a chance to play over 30 minutes he was more productive then most of the players getting minutes over him.

In the 41 games where Evan Turner played more than 25 minutes he averaged:

30 min
10.6 pts
5.7 reb
2.5 asst
0.9 stl
44.8% FGA
0.4 3PTM (on a good 42%)
1.7 FTM

That is a good sample size of averaging 30 min and those numbers are not stellar by any strtetch. He will improve, but it is a reach to try and turn is rookie performance into anything less than a duissapointment for a 22 year old rookie who was dominant in a major NCAA conference.

IMO it is not bashing/hating ET to say that he had a lousy rookie year. You can decide for yourseldf why that was the case. Some blame it on the coach, the player, his teammates... I'm just glad his rookie year is over and am looking forward to bigger and better things from ET.

[ZarcMumoff]

I would trade Turner for another young guy who better fits a need or in a package for someone like CP3.

I would not trade him for someone like Ellis or Martin. Go young or go for it all, anything in between is just hurting our draft position with some deep drafts coming up.

This is exactly how I feel. Either go all young, or trade the young guys and go for it all.

Should be an interesting off-season.

[tk76]

I would trade Turner for another young guy who better fits a need or in a package for someone like CP3.

I would not trade him for someone like Ellis or Martin. Go young or go for it all, anything in between is just hurting our draft position with some deep drafts coming up.

I would trade him for a 26-28 year old player if it was part of a series of moves that dramatically upgraded the team. Especially if the player in return was they type that would age well (like a pure shooter or guy with dominant size.) I would not flip Turner if it was not part of a major re-working of the team.

The Sixers have Iguodala, who should be in his prime for another 4 years. Jrue will be in his prime during that time. Slot a great shooter/scorer between them and you have a truly elite back-court. While Brand is very good and could be flipped for a major contract top player when he is expiring. But you would need to make a move to bring in an intimating athletic big.

years left in prime:

Jrue: 2011 on for 10+ years
Iguodala: 4+ years (3 under contract)
Young: 8+ years
Brand 2 years and then you can flip his big salary for a stud player in their prime
Lou: 7+ years
ET: hopefully 7+ years

The Sixers have many players who are in their primes. Add another B level star who will be in their prime for 5+ years and you have a very good team. Then you have to hope that a superstar forces their way to Philly because they see this as a place where they can get rings given a core is in place. But I'm not sure this team as constructed can be about getting a high lottery pick. Too many players are entering their prime to expect that type of losing.

[KrazySixersD]

a jrue, martin, iggy, brand, okafor team would most definately win 55 games.. i dont know how thats a question.. unless we have literally no bench..

but, we are not getting marting without iggy, and idk how on earth we are getting okafor... so it doesnt matter cuz its not realistic at all, but it would be a 55 win team

[tk76]

a jrue, martin, iggy, brand, okafor team would most definately win 55 games.. i dont know how thats a question.. unless we have literally no bench..

but, we are not getting marting without iggy, and idk how on earth we are getting okafor... so it doesnt matter cuz its not realistic at all, but it would be a 55 win team

I'm not sure either. My general premise would be:

Turner for Marin
You would also get expiring contracts, picks and other assets.

You then flip the expirings and picks to the Hornets in order to take on Okafor's contract (assuming the Hornets get to the point where Paul is gone and they want to dump salary, which I think could happen.) And then the new owners are willing to have a bloated cap situation. And in 18 months you trade Brand's expiring for an upgrade at PF.

I think this is a much more likely scenario than one that has CP3 or Dwight choosing to go to the Sixers.

[Skates]

One of the big questions with Iggy is whether the knee/heel issues were only a result of him playing in the worlds followed by a full NBA season or whether they are a harbinger of things to come.

He isn't old by any stretch, but he plays a very athletic game and has logged heavy minutes for a lot of years. I do worry that chronic injuries may be part of his future.

Same thing with Turner. Maybe it was just a rough transition year as a rookie, as is supposedly what happens with him at each level. Then again, maybe he just isn't as good as we hoped.

Either is possible for both guys and making the right call on those issues will make or break this team for the next 4-5 years.

[51X3RF4N]

Wait so we trade Turner for Martin's contract, AND we take on Okafor? Where do we have enough room to make those moves? Even if we trade Nocioni, Lou, Speights, and Hawes, we still don't have the room, do we?

Just having Jrue, Martin, Iggy, Brand, and Okafor puts us near the cap. Then you need at least V, Thad, Meeks...and you still only have 8 guys there. Once you consider what we'd have to pay Thad to keep him, there's no way the Sixers could afford that. They can't take on any additional salary as it is, but yet somehow Turner, Nocioni, Speights, Hawes, Lou turns into Okafor and KMart.

Besides being terribly unrealistic in terms of value for the teams involved, it is also impossible.

Or maybe I'm missing something. Either way, it would be pretty awesome if that somehow happened.

[KrazySixersD]

a jrue, martin, iggy, brand, okafor team would most definately win 55 games.. i dont know how thats a question.. unless we have literally no bench..

but, we are not getting marting without iggy, and idk how on earth we are getting okafor... so it doesnt matter cuz its not realistic at all, but it would be a 55 win team

I'm not sure either. My general premise would be:

Turner for Marin
You would also get expiring contracts, picks and other assets.

You then flip the expirings and picks to the Hornets in order to take on Okafor's contract (assuming the Hornets get to the point where Paul is gone and they want to dump salary, which I think could happen.) And then the new owners are willing to have a bloated cap situation. And in 18 months you trade Brand's expiring for an upgrade at PF.

I think this is a much more likely scenario than one that has CP3 or Dwight choosing to go to the Sixers.

i must be missing something... houston wouldnt trade martin for turner strait up.. and now you are saying we get picks and expirings too? huh?

[P2K]

The dream scenarios are kinda entertaining, but what's funnier is the throwing out of 45-50 wins easily, even 55 wins. Do people realize how hard it is to win 50 games? It's hard for this team to even get to 45 wins. Yet, 50 wins can easily be attainable by adding Kevin Martin? C'mon now.

[tk76]

To be fair it was adding Martin and Okafor. But its hypothetical; and probably not worth the discussion.

[Sixerlover]

The dream scenarios are kinda entertaining, but what's funnier is the throwing out of 45-50 wins easily, even 55 wins. Do people realize how hard it is to win 50 games? It's hard for this team to even get to 45 wins. Yet, 50 wins can easily be attainable by adding Kevin Martin? C'mon now.

I'll go on record and say Kevin Martin and Emeka Okafor can get you 9 more wins than Jodie Meeks and Spencer Hawes. Maybe it's me.