Tom Moore 2.0

[sixerswillrule]

Said something like this before in another thread...

The best case scenario:
- Brand stays healthy, averages 18/10/2, and is able to keep it up until he is 33-34 years old, similar to Duncan.
- Iguodala improves a little bit more and reaches his prime as an 18/6/6 all-star.
- Young becomes our leading scorer, averaging 20-22. He and Iguodala combine for one of the best wing combos in the league.
- Speights improves his defense and rebounding, averaging 14/9 alongside Brand.
- Holiday comes along until he is ready to start in 2011. He becomes a solid outside shooter and an excellent perimeter defender.
- With a decent amount of cap space in 2011, we sign a pretty good free agent(Richrdson, Przybilla, Chandler, Azubuike, Murphy, Delonte, Salmons, Battier, Kirilenko.....)


We're a very good team in 2010-2011(48-52 wins) and a contender by 2011-2012(52-56 wins).

[ryst]

I think ryst thinks that if we keep adding players via the MLE every year then eventually we'll be able to win a title. I don't think that can be any more wrong.

thats not what i want.

what i want is a team and managment that have a plan.
last year the plan was clear, they signed Iguodala to a long term almost max contract,they signed Brand to a long term max deal and they offered Miller a long term deal(which he refused but thats a nother story) so stefanski plan was to use this 3 players as the core of the team in the next 3-5 years and add MLE type free agents and draft picks, there is no way they will get a top lottery pick to get a superstar with the way this team is right now.

so what happen? suddenly they dont want Miller, they dont want to sign anyone.
if they want to get rid of everyone and rebuild , thats fine but you cant keep Iguodala,brand,dalembert in order to do it , you need to get rid of them.
just like teams such as portland,memphis,seatle/oklahoma did ,they got rid of all there big contracts and started from scratch.

i dont have a problem with that but thats not what they are doing!
you cant go in between , you have to choose a plan and stick with it , if you want to continue with brand,iguodala etc then you already have the core of the team and you need to make the team better by signing free agents to MLE type deals so the team can get better and compete.

if this team continue to pay players like brand and iguodala then they are not rebuliding and they want to win now.

if they want to let the young guys play(which will result in a few years of high lottery picks) thats fine , but they need to get rid of brand,dalembert and iguodala, all the big contracts.

CHOOSE A PLAN AND STICK TO IT

thats all i want.

[LongLiveHinkie]

They do have a plan, but that plan changed in a year's time. Last year they wanted to compete. Now they want to rebuild. They overevaluated their own talent and misjudged their team. Now they realize this and the plan is to rebuild by playing young guys and getting better draft picks.

[kingofthecourt67]

How can anyone even suggest rebuilding? We just did! We have a core featuring Iggy and Thad who are both in their early-mid 20s. Brand is 30, yes. But we are young enough already. You can't just rebuild after one disappointing season. With so many of you, its boom or bust. Either become a champshionship contender in one offseason or blow it all up. How bout you wait for incremental improvement instead of an overnight catapult into the elite?

And I honestly believe that if(a big IF) we were to get Blake or Duhon or even stick with Miller, we would compete for the top 4 seeds next year. And that is definitely something you can build on. You don't have to blow it all up because we got bounced in the first round.

It's amazing how negative some of you guys can be. Give this team a chance. If every team rebuilt after one failed season, than there would be a lot of teams fighting to get into the lottery.

[LongLiveHinkie]

It's not negative, it is realistic. The longer you wait to build, the bigger the hole you dig yourself in and the longer it takes to get out of it. They are looking at the next 3-5 years with this team and see no possible way they can compete with the likes of the NBA's elite with their current situation and talent level.

This team has no shot to win a championship in the next 3 years. None at all. If they continue to win 41ish games during those 3 years then they won't win anything for the 3 years after that either.

You have a right to your opinion, but the Sixers obviously agree with me. Otherwise they'd use that MLE and sign someone and "go for it" for the next few seasons. The fact that they have only offered Miller one year, didn't make a serious offer to Bibby, and aren't pursuing and quality free agents tells me they know this team isn't good enough and they are going to have to take a couple steps back to take a step forward.

It has nothing to do with getting young. The new goal of this team is to get a superstar. That is what they need and they won't win a title until they can get one.

[radrmd216]

I think the cap going down and drafting Holiday were two huge events that changed the Sixers plans. The Sixers wanted to compete after a somewhat successful season wth miller, but brand and Miller never worked out and brand got injured. Miller wanted a crazy contract extension and Holiday fell to the Sixers at #17, so Ed probably thinks having the majority of the team 25 or younger competing for the future is the best option. The Sixers just changed their plans so if they want to move brand it will take time before he gets some trade value back. It would be a bad idea to trade brand at this point in time.

I don't think the Sixers really rebuilt. the Sixers plans might have been to rebuild but Miller acted as a crutch and kept them out of te lottery. Most teams that rebuild get a top lottery pick and get a very good player. Maybe if the Sixers went in full rebuild instead of looking for a good vertnern in the Iverson trade they would have had a top pick in the 07 draft. The Sixers were just luckly that the draft has been good the past few years.

There are transition periods between plans so we fans have to give the sixers time and see how this unfolds. Also there is some testing that determines the real age of someone, which takes into account things like wear and tear and use of the body. Brand is 30 but he has played a lot of NBA games as an undersized PF and suffered an achilles tear a few years ago so his actual age could be several years older than current age.

[Dedicated_76ers_fan]

But those 40-41 win game seasons have to be analyzed completely in order to make a decision. The prior year Before Detroit, we were starting Joe Freaking Smith. Likewise, we were starting Reggie Evans at the four the year before that.

Now last year, before Thad injury, we were 40-35 and had a great shot at a top 4-5 seed. In other words: This team was winning games.

Was it Andre Miller? Well: Yes and no. Andre Miller had his pros and his cons, his upbringings and shortcomings as a Philadelphia Sixers Point Guard. I believe we overhyped the PG. But he was a good scorer.

Let me emphasis this: Thad Young, Andre Iguodala, Andre Miller all have 1 thing in common: They can score the ball. It's not flashy, it's not Kobe Bryant-ish. But they can create and knock down their own shots.

This team could put the ball in the hoop.

And Iguodala's improvement with his outside shot was big.

Before, Brand was playing with Iggy who borrowed Willie Green's SuckTonic.

Andre Miller was still shooting, NOT passing.

Jrue Holiday's going to surprise people. He's exactly what we need at the 1.

[ryst]

They do have a plan, but that plan changed in a year's time. Last year they wanted to compete. Now they want to rebuild. They overevaluated their own talent and misjudged their team. Now they realize this and the plan is to rebuild by playing young guys and getting better draft picks.

you will never get better draft picks(in terms of position) with the way this team is consturcted right now.
this team is good enough to win 35-42 wins every year.
if you want to get a top 5 pick and draft a superstar(and thats what you have been saying for a while)
you will have to gut the team, let Miller go,and trade iguodala and brand.

thats there is no in between , you either compete and get better by resigning your own players and signing MLE type deals or you rebuild from scratch and gut the team to get under the cap and high draft picks.

[tmoore]

i think Tom Moore said that the article was wrong and Stefanski is not in vegas, no one from the sixers is there, according to Tom.

The Sixers don't have a team in Vegas, but Stefanski is there looking at possible players to fill out the roster and perhaps talking to other GMs.

[ryst]

i think Tom Moore said that the article was wrong and Stefanski is not in vegas, no one from the sixers is there, according to Tom.

The Sixers don't have a team in Vegas, but Stefanski is there looking at possible players to fill out the roster and perhaps talking to other GMs.

ok ,so i am gonna take the 4 hour drive to play some poker, meet stefanski and talk some sense into him , someone got to do it
i will do what willie green did to BK , get some photos of stefanski in some dire situations...thats vegas baby...

[Bring Back 1983]

I said this in another thread and I'll say it again here - we have no clue of what this team is capable of since it has not had a real coach (both in teaching and game strategy) since O'Brien was let go. Funny how that was the year Sam showed the most development as well. Now I'm not proclaiming EJ as the next Auerbach, but I am convinced that the man does know how to 1) develop a number of offensive sets; 2) get the most out of young players, particularly on the wings; and 3)can handle almost any personality (Exhibit A - Agent Zero). Yeah he's not a defensive guru, but if you think we'll do worse than the horrendous rotations we've had the last 3 years, you're kidding yourself.

I not only need to see Iggy/Thad at the 2/3 to see if it will work, but I have no clue whether Lou can be a scoring point (think a poor man's Tony Parker), whether Speights can be physical enough to play the 5 or whether Sam can function solely as defensive specialist that gets big minutes when we play teams with big post scorers (Orlando, LA, etc.). That will take at least half the season, which means if anything, we'll see any larger moves at the trade deadline.

[tmoore]

Ironically, O'Brien played head games with Dalembert -- and everyone else -- and liked to use Corliss Williamson and Marc Jackson at the 4 and 5, which may have made them the least athletic, most vertically challenged inside duo in league history. Dalembert didn't like O'Brien and didn't play well for him until the playoffs, which resulted in a six-year, $62 million contract containing a 15 percent trade-kicker. Don't give O'Brien too much credit, though he did make the playoffs with essentially the same team that Cheeks did not one year later.

Another classic O'Brien head game: He benched Kenny Thomas in favor of Josh Davis, who didn't belong in the league, for five games, then took credit when Thomas played well. Thomas was livid and let everyone know it, too. The dude alienated an entire organization in one year, which is hard to do. That's why he was fired.

[sixerfan1976]

Tom,
Do you think we wait til august til this team does anything? Anythnig at all?

[sixerfan1976]

bill simmons just twittered that season renewals are awful. I get calls weekly about doing a plan. They are desperate. They got no money to spend. its gotta be all min contracts. They cant afford anything else.

[Bring Back 1983]

Tom, you bring up some valid points about Obie (and I don't want to focus too much on him), but it is a testament to his coaching that we were able to get Iguodala fluidly in the starting lineup as a rookie and create an offense that scored close 100 points a game with Corliss, Marc Jackson, and Dalembert getting regular minutes (I almost forget how horrible that roster was - poor AI probably talked in his sleep at night).

Actually the Dalembert example is a good one when you look at the production Jordan prodded out of Haywood in 2007-08, and I think we can all agree that guy is a stiff. I look for some comical news conferences early on when he analyzes Lou Williams' "decision-making".

[sixers hoops]

They got no money to spend. its gotta be all min contracts. They cant afford anything else.

I understand that Ed Snider is a wealthy man who has limitations on what he can spend on our team. However, most of our team is owned by Comcast who has an endless supply of money that shouldn't be affected by the economy at all.

I find it hard to believe that Comcast can't invest enough in this team to get some extra plane tickets, hotel rooms, and equipment for us to field teams in any summer league available.

I completely understand avoiding the luxury tax, but some of this penny-pinching seems unnecessary to me. Maybe I am misunderstanding how this team is funded, but the summer league savings seemed laughable to me.

[Hops2thesky]

I would say that Sammy played best under Chris Ford...
Oddly enough, I think he may have been the best coach the Sixers have had over the last 4 years.

BTW, attendance was terrible last year. And it will likely be terrible this year too. Tough to spend money to go over the luxury tax in this financial climate.

I think a few folks are right, though. getting Jrue was a big surprise, and may have changed the teams plans a little. Especially since the FO thinks he may be starting by next year.
Stay under the tax and let the core of the team develop together.
Nothing could be done to make the Sixers compete in the Finals for the next 2 years. But in three years, with a Jrue, Andre, and Thad core, there are alot of possibilities.

[tmoore]

Ford just told Dalembert to play and let him go. Dalembert really liked playing for Ford.

[tmoore]

Tom,
Do you think we wait til august til this team does anything? Anything at all?

Could be that long, unless a sign-and-trade with Miller makes sense for the Sixers.

[Hops2thesky]

Ford just told Dalembert to play and let him go. Dalembert really liked playing for Ford.

Interesting. Guess Sammy just felt comfortable that if he made a mistake, he would not be yanked.
Sammy enjoying that kinf of freedom sounds just about right, happy-go-lucky guy that he is

So, what is next? Is camp next up for the Sixers, and when does it start?