Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll

[phiphan]

Is it fair to say Ingram is the new era Luol Deng and Simmons is Lamar Odom?

No

[Winejk]

The thing about Ingram that gets me excited is the turn around jumper in his arsenal. It is going to be a virtually impossible shot to stop. With his length, he's going to be able to get that off against just about any SF/SG guarding him. Probably a lot of PFs too. I start thinking about Nowitzki's unblockable fade away jumper. I also think about Jordan's fade away turn around jumper that was a staple in his game towards the latter half of his career. Those are major weapons that can carry a team in a playoff series.

In fact while everyone compares Ingram to Durant, maybe we can also look at him as a SF version of Nowitzki. Doesn't rebound like Nowitzki, but a better ball handler and a little more mobile than Nowitzki.

[OleSchool]

For all the Simmons fans, can someone explain to me why he is not Lamar Odom 2.0?

[tk76]

Ultimately, unless you are convinced Simmons develops a plus jumper and/or will be a top 5 player... Ingram gets the edge because he is easier to construct a contender with. You need multiple stars either way... an most stars fit well with Ingram and not so well with Simmons

To me that pushes Ingram over the top even though I rate Simmons a bit better individually.

[LongLiveHinkie]

Saric is more Odom than Simmons. I think Simmons has better ball handling than Odom, and a lesser shot, and certainly a much better passer than Odom. I think Simmons will have a higher % of his points come from in the paint than Odom did.

[OleSchool]

Saric is more Odom than Simmons. I think Simmons has better ball handling than Odom, and a lesser shot, and certainly a much better passer than Odom. I think Simmons will have a higher % of his points come from in the paint than Odom did.

[HartfordWhalers]

59 to 60 with 119 votes. This is ridiculously close.

[CoreyGallagher]

59 to 60 with 119 votes. This is ridiculously close.

General Board is 80 to 82 with 162 votes. Ingram.

[Jack Bauer]

Is it fair to say Ingram is the new era Luol Deng and Simmons is Lamar Odom? Who would you rather have...I also don't think it's fair to leave Kris Dunn out of this equation. Last year around this time Jah was the #1 on majority mocks and he fell to #3. It's a guard driven league and Dunn may show superstar-like signs in his workouts.

Remember last year when Okafor was supposed to be the next Tim Duncan?

[Ericb5]

If Kevin Ding is right, that means they already have a preconception before individual workouts, which would be troubling.

They have scouted both players extensively. Obviously they have opinions already.

The workouts aren't usually game changers, although they could be.

I just think that it is obvious the rarity of someone like Simmons. They just don't make them like that very much. He should start out ahead of Ingram before they work them out.

[Jack Bauer]

For all the Simmons fans, can someone explain to me why he is not Lamar Odom 2.0?

Can't be helped.

Wiggins was supposed to be the next Tracy McGrady

Jabari was supposed to be the next Carmelo Anthony

D'Angelo was supposed to be the next Steph Curry

Okafor was supposed to be the next Tim Duncan

[Ericb5]

Is it fair to say Ingram is the new era Luol Deng and Simmons is Lamar Odom? Who would you rather have...I also don't think it's fair to leave Kris Dunn out of this equation. Last year around this time Jah was the #1 on majority mocks and he fell to #3. It's a guard driven league and Dunn may show superstar-like signs in his workouts.

Remember last year when Okafor was supposed to be the next Tim Duncan?

Ah, nobody realistically thought that. He could be Duncan offensively, and even better than him potentially, but he has never shown the capacity for rebounding or defending like Duncan.

Duncan was a rebounder and rim protector from his first college game.

[Unbreakable99]

Of the 273 cumulative votes here and on the General Board, Ingram has a 3 vote lead.

135 Simmons
138 Ingram

Only one vote counts. BC's and he's taking Simmons.

[PhilasFinest]

Im still so torn. All day I'm back and forth.

Ingram is such a good fit....and has some serious upside IMO.

Simmons has just had so much hype and presents such a unique skill-set. Is his allure possibly too polarizing to pass on knowing if he pans out, you could be kicking yourself in the ass for years and years?

[LongLiveHinkie]

If Kevin Ding is right, that means they already have a preconception before individual workouts, which would be troubling.

They have scouted both players extensively. Obviously they have opinions already.

The workouts aren't usually game changers, although they could be.

I just think that it is obvious the rarity of someone like Simmons. They just don't make them like that very much. He should start out ahead of Ingram before they work them out.

Is Simmons that rare though? IMO, Lebron James is rare. What about Simmons is all that rare. I guess it's rare that a big man can pass like that, but is that a "special" rare? To me rare just makes him unique, but unique is not necessarily "special."

People just automatically say Simmons is more talented than Ingram, but is he? He's more athletic for sure, and people typically associate athleticism with talent, but shooting is a talent too, and Ingram has it.

[Mik317]

Long ass post that will probably make me look dumb or be invalidated by next year incoming.

This choice is huge and I have no clue which guy is the "right" choice. In an ideal world both are just as good and everything is gravy. That generally isn't how it works. Even in a Bron/Melo situation (in terms of two prospects from the same draft being great), one guy is always going to be better (although if either guy is "just" Melo good....we are in business lol)...so there will be a less than optimal choice. So lets get to it....as of my knowledge right now.

Simmons spent most of the year as the prize of the draft. Ingram struggled earlier in the year while Simmons' flourished (not so much in the winning side tho). His toolset is great. He can dribble, he is pretty athletic (not LeBron or Westbrook...but not many are), has great vision and stat padding or not...dude averaged a double double...that **** doesn't happen too often. We need a guy who we can give the ball and get to the rim and or get others a shot. Ish can do it...but he is tiny. Yes we need shooters. We also need a creator...perhaps more. Yes Simmons biggest flaw is that he cannot shoot (plus some diva stuff that I will get to) and that sounds like Iggy, Turner, MCW..and many Sixers before. So I get that it is scary. I need to view more tape (I was scared of liking Simmons too much and then falling to 4 to do so before lol), but apparently it isn't broken. He is a solid FT which actually is a good sign that he can work out the kinks on his jumper. Brett and squad also have a rep as great shot teachers. MCW was hurt prior to getting traded so who knows what he could have done there. Jah's improvement and Noel's as well shows some merit to it. Plus guys like Tony Parker, Bruce Bowen and I think Kawhii. So while yeah it is scary, there is some hope there.

HOWEVA, despite my previous stance on taking guys with **** or diva tendencies as I think most of the NBA stars are...well douchebags at times, it is quite scary. Simmons quit on his squad. Great players can carry teams, no matter the situation. LSU got worse as the season went on (although Hornsby going down is bigger than people have given it credit. he was their spacing). This also isnt anything new. He apparently had to be motivated in HS too. That sucks. The whole worrying about sneaker deals thing is also concerning. Now look, I can't blame him. Getting a better deal is probably what I'd be looking for at 20 (and 27...and 50) too. There is also the idea of getting through the season healthy. Simmons never really wanted to go to college, which I also get...so its whatever. But the fact that dude has been a no show since the process started makes him come off as a guy who wants to control the narrative without effort. I rather not have a guy come here, be butthurt and focused on off the court stuff especially while Ingram styles in LA. I like to say that we get 7 years of Simmons easy and if we can't build ****, then he should leave..but I'd be lying if I didn't worry about him bailing earlier. As for actual basketball stuff, again the jumper is a concern but not as much as him not being engaged. AGain I will need to look at more tape but this is honestly the bigger concern for me.

Now onto Ingram. He is an easier fit. Doesn't require immediate trades (although I think that is happening no matter what). and best of all..he can shoot yall. It will be great to finally draft a guy who can shoot out the gate. Also just like Simmons' main flaw can be fixed by our staff, Ingram's frail skeleton body also can be fixed. Noel may not be Buff Bagwell but he has filled out well. We also have Durant's trainer FFS **** is cash yo. Plus Ingram is young so not being a greek god right now isn't a big deal. Plus I doubt he'd Diva his way to LA as he seems like a well mannered smart kid (have to be to get into Duke, no?). He is also more than just a shooter as I saw some creation off the bounce which is nice. Plus dat wingspan. He and Noel defensively should be some hax ****. All them arms all over da place. Its perfect right?....uhhhh

so now I'll be a negative nancy tho. Ingram wasn't very good at the start of the year. I also felt like Grayson Allen was the real MVP of that team (I am also an idiot who is often wrong...so there is that). But that could just be the general adjustment period, as Ingram got better as the season went on..which is great. But Ingram may have to adjust again on this level and perhaps the adjustment is to be more of a spot up shooter...which isn't first overall pick worthy. Ingram only is "worth" the top pick if he can create his own shots on this level. That is my biggest question for him...and is why the Durant comp is weird. Durant is a great athlete. Great first step and is more explosive than he gets credit for. Ingram is a bit slow footed and relies on his crazy strides more than anything plus he isn't a guy who gets others involved when he does put it on the floor, that is a crucial part of being a go to guy..being able to use the focus on you to get your teammates the ball. Plus the ft% is worrisome, perhaps he is more of a streak shooter than a knock down one? Then what. But like Simmons, all of that I workable. Get can get buff, there are ways to increase footspeed and just generally maturing. Plus his length alone makes up for a lot... so like Simmons my biggest hangup is not an on court thing but rather perception... We have tanked hard as hell for 3 years, this is more than likely our final or near final shot at getting top flight talent (I suspect we will soon be in the Josh Jackson sweepstakes regardless tho) so can you imagine, if we pass on Simmons, the guy who had all the hype, and have him live up to it? Look at Porzingus over Jah. Advanced Stats aside..Jah had a damn good season for rookie...not perfect. Not game changing. But damn good all things considered. But all year we have had to hear about omg yall passed on Kristaps herrr derrrrp. Now magnify that ****. Its easy to shut down everyone on that because no one knew he'd be this good and clowned on the Knicks for that. Simmons gets to LA, with all the hype, and does well...we will look like ****. And even outside of that..its a lot to put on Ingram. I think he's going to be a solid NBA player at worse. His shooting and length alone will make him be a worthwhile addition to a team. But if Simmons reaches his potential and even gets his jumper to "I have to kind of care a little status", he's a perenial all star in LA, who he'll even be magnified more so (just like Kristaps; If Okafor had the exact same season he had here in NY...I can guarantee his defense issues would have been swept under the rug)...and I am deathly afraid of passing on the chance for that.

I like Ingram, probably prefer him as he had more good games when I watched than Simmons (who played like ass everything I watched), so he is the choice right now...but man oh man..passing on Simmons' talent is just a tough decision. I will wait to see how things play out over the next few weeks. If Simmons acts like a tool and tries to force his way to LA...then cool it makes it easier. Don't want a guy who doesn't want to be here, no matter how talented, its not worth the headache and it makes it tough to root for that guy. Jah probably didn't want to be here but he got here and started grinding and working. Not a peep out of him.

But otherwise, I am just glad we have the choice. I don't think there is a wrong one. Both guys at worse will be solid NBA contributors barring injuries or unforseen issues. Diva or not, Simmons probably wants to be considered to be a great player so I doubt he'd sandbag it too hard.

Gonna be fun flip flopping like a chode for a month.

woooooo

[Sixersftw]

No one really discussed Okafor much around this time. We all thought it was a foregone conclusion that the Lakers were going to take him. The battle on these boards was Mudiay v Russell

[Jack Bauer]

The thing about Ingram that gets me excited is the turn around jumper in his arsenal. It is going to be a virtually impossible shot to stop. With his length, he's going to be able to get that off against just about any SF/SG guarding him. Probably a lot of PFs too. I start thinking about Nowitzki's unblockable fade away jumper. I also think about Jordan's fade away turn around jumper that was a staple in his game towards the latter half of his career. Those are major weapons that can carry a team in a playoff series.

In fact while everyone compares Ingram to Durant, maybe we can also look at him as a SF version of Nowitzki. Doesn't rebound like Nowitzki, but a better ball handler and a little more mobile than Nowitzki.

Ingram's post up turnaround fade away jumper is money. Honestly, he doesn't even need to fade, it's already unguardable with his 7'4 reach.

[PhilasFinest]

No one really discussed Okafor much around this time. We all thought it was a foregone conclusion that the Lakers were going to take him. The battle on these boards was Mudiay v Russell

Okafor did seem like a lock for LA, and fit wise, he didn't really seem to fit what we were looking for.

[PhilasFinest]

The thing about Ingram that gets me excited is the turn around jumper in his arsenal. It is going to be a virtually impossible shot to stop. With his length, he's going to be able to get that off against just about any SF/SG guarding him. Probably a lot of PFs too. I start thinking about Nowitzki's unblockable fade away jumper. I also think about Jordan's fade away turn around jumper that was a staple in his game towards the latter half of his career. Those are major weapons that can carry a team in a playoff series.

In fact while everyone compares Ingram to Durant, maybe we can also look at him as a SF version of Nowitzki. Doesn't rebound like Nowitzki, but a better ball handler and a little more mobile than Nowitzki.

Dirk is one of the most unique players in the history of the NBA, and one of the best shooters ever. I don't see anything in Ingram's game that compares to Dirk's.