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Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll

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Simmons or Ingram

Simmons
137
56%
Ingram
106
44%
 
Total votes: 243

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Re: Simmons or Ingram for Philly? POLL Reset following lottery 

Post#681 » by Negrodamus » Thu May 19, 2016 2:29 am

joyeuxnoel wrote:
76ciology wrote:
76ers 2020 wrote:SImmons is a 20 point scorer with just his ability to get to the rim and the line. The harping over the jump shot is bizarre. Not even taking into account the play making abilities setting up others.


And Ingram can't score 20 and set-up his teammates?

You'll have to hope simmons to be a lebron-ish shooter to be that guy. Ingram, you'll just have to have him pass more. Ingram is already THAT skilled of a scorer and is a willing passer. He scores/shoots like a guard. The only guy who can match-up size with him is KD.


Does he though? Low FT% and meh 3 pt % for a guy who started slow and finished horribly

For all the talk about simmons dissapearing some games, ingram also sucked in many games.

Can he create enough spacing on his shots?


2nd youngest player in the draft (Bender is 2 months younger). Spent the beginning of his Duke career getting into shape, which he did a damn good job considering how he looked in HS. Additionally, there were nerves as an 18 year old playing at Duke against the best basketball conference in the country.

That would be like complaining that Simmons didn't really show up against ranked teams (stats considerably worse) en route to a 2-4 record against them. He's a freshman; not a machine. Same goes for Ingram. If you can't see Ingram for his ability as a scorer, then you're just blindly supporting Simmons.
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Re: Simmons or Ingram for Philly? POLL Reset following lottery 

Post#682 » by freshie2 » Thu May 19, 2016 2:36 am

I'm fine with either...neither are perfect.

Ingram doesn't have the same frame as Embiid at the same age. He will put weight on, but more like Durant.

Ingram doesn't really play like Durant. Durant has a quicker release and was effective on the move in catch and shoot scenarios. Durant just seems more dynamic/athletic as well.

Simmons doesn't have elite length, but is very athletic for someone his size. The jumper will come (didn't he and Ingram shoot about the same percentage from the fould line?) Which then makes him nearly unstoppable.

The better star prospect is Simmons, but the safer high end producer is Ingram. Both have gaps in their games, and I do think people are a little too intrigued with Ingram's length (which I love as well). If Simmons passes the interview then he will be the pick.
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Re: Simmons or Ingram for Philly? POLL Reset following lottery 

Post#683 » by Negrodamus » Thu May 19, 2016 2:47 am

freshie2 wrote:I'm fine with either...neither are perfect.

Ingram doesn't have the same frame as Embiid at the same age. He will put weight on, but more like Durant.

Ingram doesn't really play like Durant. Durant has a quicker release and was effective on the move in catch and shoot scenarios. Durant just seems more dynamic/athletic as well.

Simmons doesn't have elite length, but is very athletic for someone his size. The jumper will come (didn't he and Ingram shoot about the same percentage from the fould line?) Which then makes him nearly unstoppable.

The better star prospect is Simmons, but the safer high end producer is Ingram. Both have gaps in their games, and I do think people are a little too intrigued with Ingram's length (which I love as well). If Simmons passes the interview then he will be the pick.


I'm not saying he has the same body as Embiid. Look at Giannis at 18 years old. Look at Tayshaun Prince at UK. Hell, look at Paul George at Fresno:

Image

These are thin guys that filled out a bit. Ingram has a similar large shoulder build which makes me believe he can add weight when his entire life is committed to making it as an NBA player.

I also don't think Simmons will ever have even a decent jumpshot. Not that it matters, he's a good shooter around the rim and is more about setting players up. I don't think he'll ever be a 20 ppg scorer but that's not his deal.
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Re: Simmons or Ingram for Philly? POLL Reset following lottery 

Post#684 » by brackdan70 » Thu May 19, 2016 2:53 am

I am going to throw in a write in vote for Bender.
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Re: Simmons or Ingram for Philly? POLL Reset following lottery 

Post#685 » by freshie2 » Thu May 19, 2016 3:04 am

Prince never filled out. I think he'll be fine, but he doesn't remind me of Embiid in terms of body type. He's more Prince than any of the others you mentioned.
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Re: Simmons or Ingram for Philly? POLL Reset following lottery 

Post#686 » by Negrodamus » Thu May 19, 2016 3:13 am

Errm, umm, okay. The point I was trying to make is that some guys come into the league skinny and fill out. Once again, didn't say he has the same body as Embiid. As I type this, I realize how fruitless this debate is.
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Re: Simmons or Ingram for Philly? POLL Reset following lottery 

Post#687 » by LakersSquad » Thu May 19, 2016 3:14 am

PhilasFinest wrote:Im still so torn. All day I'm back and forth.

Ingram is such a good fit....and has some serious upside IMO.

Simmons has just had so much hype and presents such a unique skill-set. Is his allure possibly too polarizing to pass on knowing if he pans out, you could be kicking yourself in the ass for years and years?



Me too but then I think about Luke guiding Simmons and I'm like yea pick him
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Re: Simmons or Ingram for Philly? POLL Reset following lottery 

Post#688 » by drone3 » Thu May 19, 2016 3:35 am

Simmons all day, everyday.
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Re: Simmons or Ingram for Philly? POLL Reset following lottery 

Post#689 » by 76ciology » Thu May 19, 2016 3:44 am

Brandon Ingram is a type of top tier prospect who's game is going to get better in the NBA. His game is tailor fit in the NBA.

He's THE "Karl Towns" this year.

He's freakish length, ball handling and shooting combination will make him really tough to defend.

NBA naturally sags off on defense because of the handcheck rule, if not they will give up a lot of FTs. With Ingram, you will need to stay close at him because he is a great shooter who can just shoot over you. A simple jab step will easily gets separation.

It's the fact that Hawks and Spurs abuses, Kawhi for instance is not an elite ball handler but he can get to the hole being a threat at the perimeter. It's evident with the Hawks with having 5 guys who can shoot, that a single pump fake can easily breakdown the defense. Hell, even Al Horford and diaw can drive and draw.

Yes, you can score not being a shooter in the NBA. Just like Derozan or Wiggins. But it will be tough for you to be a dominant on offense when you are limited by your jumper while you are also a shaky FT shooter.
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Re: Simmons or Ingram for Philly? POLL Reset following lottery 

Post#690 » by PhilasFinest » Thu May 19, 2016 3:54 am

Ingram and Giannis have very similar measurements. Same wingspans/length and similar builds coming into the NBA.

Giannis has put on like 25 pounds of muscle....but he's done it in a lean functional way without bulking up too much, which is likely what you'd want to see Ingram do.

Image
Coming into league

Image
Rookie Year

Image
This season.

Ingram has pretty freakish length. Put 25 lbs of shredded lean,functional muscle on him and he could be a menace.
SparksFly87 wrote:Towns got boat feet and gets off the ground very slow with a lack of explosiveness . He is a rich mans Henry Sims to me. No thanks .
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Re: Simmons or Ingram for Philly? POLL Reset following lottery 

Post#691 » by 76ciology » Thu May 19, 2016 4:13 am

PhilasFinest wrote:Ingram and Giannis have very similar measurements. Same wingspans/length and similar builds coming into the NBA.

Giannis has put on like 25 pounds of muscle....but he's done it in a lean functional way without bulking up too much, which is likely what you'd want to see Ingram do.

Image
Coming into league

Image
Rookie Year

Image
This season.

Ingram has pretty freakish length. Put 25 lbs of shredded lean,functional muscle on him and he could be a menace.


He's also just 18.

I'd also like to add that adding mass is not that much of an issue unlike at the C position. I'll take Derozan posting up against the length of Ingram.

Actually, most guys (even centers) are trying to lose weight. Even Lowry tried to lose weight.

If there's an issue, it's Simmons' height to wingspan ratio (there's an entire article about this) and his shooting.

Simmons' shooting is not a mechanic issue IMO. It's a touch issue. He's been shooting with the wrong hand. He will need to start from scratch and shoot with his right. I don't want to be part of that.

It's just quite unfair but shooting + rotational defense just trumps everything. Being shooter allows you to drive and draw. Rotational defense allows you to be a plus defender despite your limitations just like Olynyk or Sullinger.
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Re: Simmons or Ingram for Philly? POLL Reset following lottery 

Post#692 » by MGB8 » Thu May 19, 2016 4:16 am

I think Ingram gets penalized for not charging in and initiating contact like Simmons did... But how much of that was Simmons playing against kids (as opposed to men) not to mention some fairly poor competition? Don't think Simmons, despite the very quick feet for his size, is going to be able to drive like he did in college. Or rebound like he did. Do think Ingram's shooting will translate.
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Re: Simmons or Ingram for Philly? POLL Reset following lottery 

Post#693 » by ExplosionsInDaSky » Thu May 19, 2016 4:29 am

We went through the shooting crap with Evan Turner, I like both prospects, but I give Ingram the slight edge. He's going to tear the league up. Simmons looks like a stud too, but the shooting issues bother me.
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Re: Simmons or Ingram for Philly? POLL Reset following lottery 

Post#694 » by 76ciology » Thu May 19, 2016 4:51 am

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB5-pxzQP-g[/youtube]
Watch this. It's just close to impossible to defend this guy in the NBA. He's THE dynamic scorer, not Simmons. Dynamic because he can hurt you in multiple ways. He can score like a guard/wing (shoot, with or without the ball) or center (putbacks&around the rim). He can shoot in 3 zones (paint, mid range and 3s).
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Re: Simmons or Ingram for Philly? POLL Reset following lottery 

Post#695 » by ChokeFasncists » Thu May 19, 2016 8:03 am

Ingram. When both are real good and neither is the sure thing, draft for need.

Didn't Ingram play PG in HS? He's probably a pretty good passer, the best attribute of Simmons. Ingram is probably the better scorer. This team doesn't need another rebounder.

Drafting Simmons would mean a not so good trade or a logjam.

Embiid (if healthy)
Noel
Saric
Ingram
Lin

6th man: Okafor

Great future!
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Re: Simmons or Ingram for Philly? POLL Reset following lottery 

Post#696 » by 76ciology » Thu May 19, 2016 8:16 am

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvF_1fXJxJc[/youtube]

Everything that makes you question Ingram's transition to the pros is in here.

It also covers how defenders would easily sag off him and let him shoot the ball.

If he really only got 8'7" standing reach, please pass him. I hope we can get exact measurement.
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Re: Simmons or Ingram for Philly? POLL Reset following lottery 

Post#697 » by Kobe System » Thu May 19, 2016 8:44 am

PhilasFinest wrote:Why do people keep insisting that LA wants Okafor?

If they wanted him so bad, they would have drafted him last year.


Amen.
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Re: Simmons or Ingram for Philly? POLL Reset following lottery 

Post#698 » by 76ciology » Thu May 19, 2016 9:08 am

ChokeFasncists wrote:Ingram. When both are real good and neither is the sure thing, draft for need.

Didn't Ingram play PG in HS? He's probably a pretty good passer, the best attribute of Simmons. Ingram is probably the better scorer. This team doesn't need another rebounder.

Drafting Simmons would mean a not so good trade or a logjam.

Embiid (if healthy)
Noel
Saric
Ingram
Lin

6th man: Okafor

Great future!


Jeremy, how long have you been on RealGM?
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Re: Simmons or Ingram for Philly? POLL Reset following lottery 

Post#699 » by dorkestra » Thu May 19, 2016 9:10 am

I want Ingram and I will be a little disappointed if we take Simmons.
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Re: Simmons or Ingram for Philly? POLL Reset following lottery 

Post#700 » by 76ciology » Thu May 19, 2016 9:17 am

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNaJiKhmg10[/youtube]

This is why it's tough to defend Ingram. If you sag off, he'll shoot over you. If you stay close, he can drive and finish at the rim.

spoiler: Jah approves
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