Jeff Teague for Nerlens Noel discussed, not imminent

[mrfantast1c]

That is the worst trade I have seen on this board so far. Trading Noel, and picks for Exum and 12... As of now, Exum hasn't proven he is an NBA player. Noel has proven to be a high end defensive anchor. Absolutely no way, philly makes that move. Turns out, we aren't trading for Teague either, thank god. Schroeder, Knight, or McCollum like others have said would be a different story

[the_process]

If you bump up Teague's salary this year to allow you to give him a bigger extension, yet one that will be undervalued in the upcoming years, he gains value. Enough for Noel? Not quite. I'd still want additional value. What about...

ATL gets Noel and 26
OKC gets Korver and (TJ or 24)
PHI gets Teague, Payne, and 21

OKC gets their choice to select a new backup PG and that wing they're looking for, Philly fills in the PG spot, ATL gets a defensive anchor

[Sixerscan]

That is the worst trade I have seen on this board so far. Trading Noel, and picks for Exum and 12... As of now, Exum hasn't proven he is an NBA player. Noel has proven to be a high end defensive anchor. Absolutely no way, philly makes that move. Turns out, we aren't trading for Teague either, thank god. Schroeder, Knight, or McCollum like others have said would be a different story

Depends on which picks.

Many people probably would have had a similar reaction to trading for McCollum after his 2nd season. If you wait until guys prove themselves you have to give up a lot more for them. Exum is still super young and has a lot of talent.

That being said, Noel doesn't make sense for Utah as they have gobert and favors and have almost as big a hole at pg as we do if exum can't get it together.

[51X3RF4N]

Isn't Exum the same kind of player as Simmons in that he's a taller guard who excels at getting past his man and being a playmaker, but he struggles with his outside shot?

I get that they know each other and are both super young, and it would be interesting to see them playing together. But are they a good on the court fit?

[MatthewGeigerII]

That is the worst trade I have seen on this board so far. Trading Noel, and picks for Exum and 12... As of now, Exum hasn't proven he is an NBA player. Noel has proven to be a high end defensive anchor. Absolutely no way, philly makes that move. Turns out, we aren't trading for Teague either, thank god. Schroeder, Knight, or McCollum like others have said would be a different story

lol you must have missed all of the Kevin Durant/Lebron fantasy trades over the years then!

I really don't think it's as lopsided as you think... 24 and 26 may get your up to 18/19? the noel for exum isn't a straight up swap - it also helps push that to #12 where you can get a better prospect. Yeah i would like mccollum or booker or something as well (not schroder) - but it's not going to happen without give up more than noel now. i do agree with your point that exum is unproven and maybe i would do the same scenario with knight and #13 but i like the potential of exum growing with a core than knight.

Nerlens, 24 and 26 for knight and #13... is that better for you?

i would also like to get into that top 7 pick range via nerlens but since he is an RFA after next season, the consensus is he will not get that value back... and i would also agree that it's undervaluing nerlens but it's not me undervaluing it's his contract situation and being a free agent soon that is undervaluing his skill. they extend him soon, then it's a different story and we can talk about mccollum and stuff like that.

[rallydurham]

McCollum didn't really break out though. His per minute numbers were about the same and he's still not well liked by advanced statistics.


I'd argue that given his age his improvement this year was disappointing. He's a relatively decent player but i wouldn't want to give up Noel for him typically. Given Philly logjam though it would be a decent deal though

[Arsenal]

McCollum didn't really break out though. His per minute numbers were about the same and he's still not well liked by advanced statistics.


I'd argue that given his age his improvement this year was disappointing. He's a relatively decent player but i wouldn't want to give up Noel for him typically. Given Philly logjam though it would be a decent deal though

I agree that I don't want McCollum. He's undersized at the SG position, he doesn't defend well, and his efficiency is mediocre at best. He's also 2 years older than Noel so I don't think he has much upside left.

No thanks. We need to try to build around 2 way players.

[CoreyGallagher]

I'd do that trade for McCollum. With Ben Simmons he could play PG for us. He has good handles (especially for an off guard) and can shoot. Ranked 12th in 3 point shooting this past season.

[Skates]

I'd do that trade. With Ben Simmons McCollum could play PG for us. He has good handles (especially for an off guard) and can shoot.

3 point shooting is among best in league.

Agreed. I suggested this trade last year on the Blazer's Board. They wanted Okafor instead, though there was definitely some interest in Noel. I think it would take Noel plus another player or pick at a minimum. Their backcourt when CJ and Dame are playing together is defensively atrocious and both of those guys would benefit by being paired with a longer, more defensively proficient player at SG.

[Sixerscan]

Isn't Exum the same kind of player as Simmons in that he's a taller guard who excels at getting past his man and being a playmaker, but he struggles with his outside shot?

I get that they know each other and are both super young, and it would be interesting to see them playing together. But are they a good on the court fit?

seems like you could do some fun stuff defensively with both of them on the court.

He's not someone I would specifically pursue but if that trade was offered to me I would probably take it.

[mrfantast1c]

That is the worst trade I have seen on this board so far. Trading Noel, and picks for Exum and 12... As of now, Exum hasn't proven he is an NBA player. Noel has proven to be a high end defensive anchor. Absolutely no way, philly makes that move. Turns out, we aren't trading for Teague either, thank god. Schroeder, Knight, or McCollum like others have said would be a different story

Depends on which picks.

Many people probably would have had a similar reaction to trading for McCollum after his 2nd season. If you wait until guys prove themselves you have to give up a lot more for them. Exum is still super young and has a lot of talent.

That being said, Noel doesn't make sense for Utah as they have gobert and favors and have almost as big a hole at pg as we do if exum can't get it together.

McCollum had much better competition for minutes when he first came in to the league, on a much better team. Exum hasn't really had those same challenges. He just hasn't been good enough to stay on the floor. Exum just doesn't look like a good basketball player IMO

[Sixerscan]

That is the worst trade I have seen on this board so far. Trading Noel, and picks for Exum and 12... As of now, Exum hasn't proven he is an NBA player. Noel has proven to be a high end defensive anchor. Absolutely no way, philly makes that move. Turns out, we aren't trading for Teague either, thank god. Schroeder, Knight, or McCollum like others have said would be a different story

Depends on which picks.

Many people probably would have had a similar reaction to trading for McCollum after his 2nd season. If you wait until guys prove themselves you have to give up a lot more for them. Exum is still super young and has a lot of talent.

That being said, Noel doesn't make sense for Utah as they have gobert and favors and have almost as big a hole at pg as we do if exum can't get it together.

McCollum had much better competition for minutes when he first came in to the league, on a much better team. Exum hasn't really had those same challenges. He just hasn't been good enough to stay on the floor. Exum just doesn't look like a good basketball player IMO

Well McCollum was also 3/4 years older when he entered the league.

[51X3RF4N]

Isn't Exum the same kind of player as Simmons in that he's a taller guard who excels at getting past his man and being a playmaker, but he struggles with his outside shot?

I get that they know each other and are both super young, and it would be interesting to see them playing together. But are they a good on the court fit?

seems like you could do some fun stuff defensively with both of them on the court.

He's not someone I would specifically pursue but if that trade was offered to me I would probably take it.

If there was a way to get a SG and SF who BOTH could shoot the lights out and spread the floor, then that is a very interesting due of Aussie's.

[HotelVitale]

McCollum didn't really break out though. His per minute numbers were about the same and he's still not well liked by advanced statistics. I'd argue that given his age his improvement this year was disappointing. He's a relatively decent player but i wouldn't want to give up Noel for him typically. Given Philly logjam though it would be a decent deal though

I agree that I don't want McCollum. He's undersized at the SG position, he doesn't defend well, and his efficiency is mediocre at best. He's also 2 years older than Noel so I don't think he has much upside left. No thanks. We need to try to build around 2 way players.

Not trying to defend McCollum in full here, but his efficiency is above average, which is great given his volume and how much he creates for himself.

[Ericb5]

McCollum didn't really break out though. His per minute numbers were about the same and he's still not well liked by advanced statistics.


I'd argue that given his age his improvement this year was disappointing. He's a relatively decent player but i wouldn't want to give up Noel for him typically. Given Philly logjam though it would be a decent deal though

Not commenting specifically on McCollum, but if a player has a certain production level at 15 mpg, and then maintains that same production level at 30 mpg, then that IS improvement.

Per minute stats are misleading because not all minutes are created equal. For example, at 15 mpg you are playing those minutes against backups, and 30 mpg players are either starting or playing in crunch time, where it is harder to produce.

I don't like the extrapolation of low mpg players where people say that if they produce X in 10 minutes then they will produce 3X in 30 minutes.

On the other hand, I see the value of normalizing production at a standard mpg to smooth out the differences between players that are already playing starter's minutes. If player A plays 34 mpg, and player B plays 40 mpg, then you can compare them more closely by normalizing them to the same mpg.

[rzzzzz]

the clause in Teague's current contract that allows the Hawks to reconstruct a multiyear agreement prior to trading him is a HUGE factor in reconsidering the deal. we do need some veteran stability on the roster, and despite all the general theoretics, he looks like he can handle the job for a couple more years. yes, it would be great to get one of Murray/Hield/Dunn for immediate gratification, but does anybody doubt that there will be some good pg prospects in next year's strong draft, where we probably get two decent picks, one of which can be swapped? (though i confess, i think there are probably some other great backcourt prospects available this year if we could somehow manage to deal for a mid first round pick.)

[Ericb5]

the clause in Teague's current contract that allows the Hawks to reconstruct a multiyear agreement prior to trading him is a HUGE factor in reconsidering the deal. we do need some veteran stability on the roster, and despite all the general theoretics, he looks like he can handle the job for a couple more years. yes, it would be great to get one of Murray/Hield/Dunn for immediate gratification, but does anybody doubt that there will be some good pg prospects in next year's strong draft, where we probably get two decent picks, one of which can be swapped? (though i confess, i think there are probably some other great backcourt prospects available this year if we could somehow manage to deal for a mid first round pick.)

What is this clause that you are talking about? What is different compared to the typical player with a year remaining?

[rzzzzz]

What is this clause that you are talking about? What is different compared to the typical player with a year remaining?

http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2016/6/4/11856520/jeff-teague-trade-kicker-salary-cap-atlanta-hawks

[Ericb5]

What is this clause that you are talking about? What is different compared to the typical player with a year remaining?

http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2016/6/4/11856520/jeff-teague-trade-kicker-salary-cap-atlanta-hawks

Great read! Thanks.

I saw that people were kicking around ideas like this in this thread, but I didn't realize that this was actually based on a real contract situation.

I would DEFINITELY do this trade if we could lock him up for the next 4 years, and pay him less than market value in years 2-4. We don't need all of our cap space this upcoming year obviously.

Unless there is some other Noel opportunity available to us in the next few weeks, this seems like a no brainer to me. We would be paying him for 4 prime years, and he is worth it. Especially, if it also means that we keep Okafor, at least through the next season to see how it goes.

If BC could pull something like this off I would be impressed because this seems like a Hinkie'ish crazy like a fox type of move. Again, it is a win now move, but I'm not afraid of win now moves anymore as long as they don't kill our future flexibility, and reasonable yearly amounts in years 2-4 wouldn't do that.

If the deal was Covington, Stauskus, and Noel for Teague and the Twolves future pick, or something along those lines, I'm in.

[Sixerscan]

McCollum didn't really break out though. His per minute numbers were about the same and he's still not well liked by advanced statistics.


I'd argue that given his age his improvement this year was disappointing. He's a relatively decent player but i wouldn't want to give up Noel for him typically. Given Philly logjam though it would be a decent deal though

Not commenting specifically on McCollum, but if a player has a certain production level at 15 mpg, and then maintains that same production level at 30 mpg, then that IS improvement.

Per minute stats are misleading because not all minutes are created equal. For example, at 15 mpg you are playing those minutes against backups, and 30 mpg players are either starting or playing in crunch time, where it is harder to produce.

I don't like the extrapolation of low mpg players where people say that if they produce X in 10 minutes then they will produce 3X in 30 minutes.

On the other hand, I see the value of normalizing production at a standard mpg to smooth out the differences between players that are already playing starter's minutes. If player A plays 34 mpg, and player B plays 40 mpg, then you can compare them more closely by normalizing them to the same mpg.

I've seen fairly strong analysis that guys play better on average the more pt they get. (More time to settle into their role). Though that may be somewhat self fulfilling (when you play well you get to play more)

There is an issue with small sample size (a bad player can play well for 500 minutes, it's harder to fake it for 1500) but that's a separate thing, and it can cut the other way too obviously.The starter/bench player thing is harder to determine because teams don't shift guys out 5 at a time so it can be unclear how much they have actually gone against a bench guy.