Joel Embiid -- The Process is now Live

[CoreyGallagher]

Not sure how Brow could be considered a tier above Giannis and Embiid, perhaps due to sample/volume, but think based upon potential and impact I'd put them in same tier tbh.

[Arsenal]

Within the last week he "butted heads" with Porzingas and Giannis. I think no neutral party would say that Embiid had the better set of teammates for those games and yet he walked away with the win in both games and was the biggest story in both games. He ignited the late comeback against the Knicks and just shutdown the paint against the Bucks and basically fouled Giannis out. Of course, just about 3 weeks ago he had his re-match against Towns and we beat them on homecourt. Also he had a pretty dominant game against Brow and the Pelicans earlier this year. He also just recently took down Jokic and the Nuggets.

So Embiid has pretty much gone out and beaten all the top young up and coming players in the game and did it with an inferior set of teammates on every occasion. This despite the fact he is coming off a 2-year layoff and is the only rookie of the whole group.

I know Nate Duncan did a podcast when talking about young prospects (age < 23) and he put it
Tier 1: Brow
Tier 2: Towns, Giannis, Porzingas
Tier 3: Embiid

I wonder how it would look like if he did it again? I think a lot of shine has come off of Towns with his defensive deficiencies and the TWolves not stepping up this season. Porzingas has kind of had a mid-season swoon again this year. Maybe Giannis and Embiid occupy Tier 2 now with Towns and Porzingas dropping down to Tier 3.

Tier 1: Embiid
Tier 2: Davis, Giannis
Tier 3: Towns, Porzingis

This will become clear to the naysayers soon enough. No one else, not even Davis, provides the 2 way dominance that Embiid does.

[Sportfan73]

Within the last week he "butted heads" with Porzingas and Giannis. I think no neutral party would say that Embiid had the better set of teammates for those games and yet he walked away with the win in both games and was the biggest story in both games. He ignited the late comeback against the Knicks and just shutdown the paint against the Bucks and basically fouled Giannis out. Of course, just about 3 weeks ago he had his re-match against Towns and we beat them on homecourt. Also he had a pretty dominant game against Brow and the Pelicans earlier this year. He also just recently took down Jokic and the Nuggets.

So Embiid has pretty much gone out and beaten all the top young up and coming players in the game and did it with an inferior set of teammates on every occasion. This despite the fact he is coming off a 2-year layoff and is the only rookie of the whole group.

I know Nate Duncan did a podcast when talking about young prospects (age < 23) and he put it
Tier 1: Brow
Tier 2: Towns, Giannis, Porzingas
Tier 3: Embiid

I wonder how it would look like if he did it again? I think a lot of shine has come off of Towns with his defensive deficiencies and the TWolves not stepping up this season. Porzingas has kind of had a mid-season swoon again this year. Maybe Giannis and Embiid occupy Tier 2 now with Towns and Porzingas dropping down to Tier 3.

Tier 1: Embiid
Tier 2: Davis, Giannis
Tier 3: Towns, Porzingis

This will become clear to the naysayers soon enough. No one else, not even Davis, provides the 2 way dominance that Embiid does.

Giannis has to go tier one. I agree with the rest. Just don't know how much impact the other guys have on winning.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[eskimo]

Not sure how Brow could be considered a tier above Giannis and Embiid, perhaps due to sample/volume, but think based upon potential and impact I'd put them in same tier tbh.

Well I think it's on the basis that he is a sure thing.

He has already put up a historic PER > 30 season so his ceiling is entirely de-risked. He has already played at an MVP level so there is no projection necessary. He has also been a really good player for 5 straight seasons so he has the consistency argument as well.

In comparison all the other guys are not nearly as established and it is hard to argue they will ever attain the heights that Davis already reached in 2014-15.

[Sportfan73]

In my opinion this basically cements Lowry this offseason, I know it's not everyone's favorite outcome but with BC here, Embiid being a star NOW, and Simmons here Lowry legitimately might see us as just a good if not better chance to beat Cleveland than Toronto. BC will see it as the first move that is "his"


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[Kirk Van Houten]

1. Davis
2. KAT, Giannis, Joel
3. Porzingis

Davis is still the man. I have Joel slowing edging ahead of his tier 2 rivals though.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[Sportfan73]

1. Davis
2. KAT, Giannis, Joel
3. Porzingis

Davis is still the man. I have Joel slowing edging ahead of his tier 2 rivals though.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Nope. Embiid already has more of an impact on winning games and the defensive side of the ball than AD


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[eskimo]

On-off numbers for the top young players:

76ers:
Embiid on: +2.9
Embiid off: -12.1
Difference: +15.0

TWolves:
Towns on: +0.9
Towns off: -1.9
Towns Effect: +2.8

Pelicans
Davis on: 0.5
Davis off: -10.0
Davis effect: +10.5

Knicks
Porzingas on: -2.1
Porzingas off: -5.1
Porzingas effect: +3.0

Bucks:
Giannis on: +4.3
Giannis off: -3.6
Giannis effect: +7.9

So for on-off stats the biggest effects amongst the group right now is:
1. Embiid +15.0
2. Davis +10.5
3. Giannis +7.9
4. Porzingas +3.0
5. Towns +2.8

Now in fairness to the rest of the group Embiid does play the least minutes but I'd also point out that when Embiid goes out he actually usually has a fairly decent non-scrub player going in for him (Noel or Okafor). So it's not like he goes out and some D-League scrub comes in to sub for him. I'd also point out that unlike many players who play limited minutes Embiid mostly plays against starters - he starts and closes games. There's been very little evidence of drop off in play as his minutes have progressed. I actually think his on-off has gotten better at the 28 mins restriction than it was at 20 mins or 24 mins.

[eskimo]

In my opinion this basically cements Lowry this offseason, I know it's not everyone's favorite outcome but with BC here, Embiid being a star NOW, and Simmons here Lowry legitimately might see us as just a good if not better chance to beat Cleveland than Toronto. BC will see it as the first move that is "his"


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

The only problem is Toronto can offer more money for more years and I think he actually really likes it over there. Everyone thought DeRozan would be interested in returning to LA but he never even paid them a visit. He just decided he wanted to stay there and compete with his team.

Myself, I'd love to bring in Lowry. He'd be the perfect PG to play with Simmons. I'd give him the max. I'd be happy to do a sign and trade with the Raptors and give them one of the lottery picks for Lowry

[Sportfan73]

In my opinion this basically cements Lowry this offseason, I know it's not everyone's favorite outcome but with BC here, Embiid being a star NOW, and Simmons here Lowry legitimately might see us as just a good if not better chance to beat Cleveland than Toronto. BC will see it as the first move that is "his"


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

The only problem is Toronto can offer more money for more years and I think he actually really likes it over there. Everyone thought DeRozan would be interested in returning to LA but he never even paid them a visit. He just decided he wanted to stay there and compete with his team.

Myself, I'd love to bring in Lowry. He'd be the perfect PG to play with Simmons. I'd give him the max. I'd be happy to do a sign and trade with the Raptors and give them one of the lottery picks for Lowry

Well they are gonna get bounced again (obviously) and he is from here, loves BC, and seriously could see us with him, Embiid, Simmons, Covington, Noel, and so on as the most legitimate threat to Cleveland, now, and at the end of his 4 year max. He also may see this as somewhere he can age much more gracefully between us having Simmons as a point forward, and probably drafting a young guard to play behind and then next to him. Which would help him in his next and most likely last contract.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[eskimo]

In my opinion this basically cements Lowry this offseason, I know it's not everyone's favorite outcome but with BC here, Embiid being a star NOW, and Simmons here Lowry legitimately might see us as just a good if not better chance to beat Cleveland than Toronto. BC will see it as the first move that is "his"


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

The only problem is Toronto can offer more money for more years and I think he actually really likes it over there. Everyone thought DeRozan would be interested in returning to LA but he never even paid them a visit. He just decided he wanted to stay there and compete with his team.

Myself, I'd love to bring in Lowry. He'd be the perfect PG to play with Simmons. I'd give him the max. I'd be happy to do a sign and trade with the Raptors and give them one of the lottery picks for Lowry

Well they are gonna get bounced again (obviously) and he is from here, loves BC, and seriously could see us with him, Embiid, Simmons, Covington, Noel, and so on as the most legitimate threat to Cleveland, now, and at the end of his 4 year max. He also may see this as somewhere he can age much more gracefully between us having Simmons as a point forward, and probably drafting a young guard to play behind and then next to him. Which would help him in his next and most likely last contract.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

I know some people get caught up in this hometown story business but how many stars ever left to go to their hometowns when they were at their peaks compared to staying where they are for a max deal? Lebron left Miami but that team was falling apart due to Wade's health and Bosh was a clear #3. People talked about Durant going to Washington but they didn't even get a visit. DeRozan never even visited LA.

The new CBA further incentivized not switching teams.

I'd love for Lowry to join the 76ers I just think it has a very low probability of happening (< 5%).

[Sportfan73]

The only problem is Toronto can offer more money for more years and I think he actually really likes it over there. Everyone thought DeRozan would be interested in returning to LA but he never even paid them a visit. He just decided he wanted to stay there and compete with his team.

Myself, I'd love to bring in Lowry. He'd be the perfect PG to play with Simmons. I'd give him the max. I'd be happy to do a sign and trade with the Raptors and give them one of the lottery picks for Lowry

Well they are gonna get bounced again (obviously) and he is from here, loves BC, and seriously could see us with him, Embiid, Simmons, Covington, Noel, and so on as the most legitimate threat to Cleveland, now, and at the end of his 4 year max. He also may see this as somewhere he can age much more gracefully between us having Simmons as a point forward, and probably drafting a young guard to play behind and then next to him. Which would help him in his next and most likely last contract.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

I know some people get caught up in this hometown story business but how many stars ever left to go to their hometowns when they were at their peaks compared to staying where they are for a max deal? Lebron left Miami but that team was falling apart due to Wade's health and Bosh was a clear #3. People talked about Durant going to Washington but they didn't even get a visit. DeRozan never even visited LA.

The new CBA further incentivized not switching teams.

I'd love for Lowry to join the 76ers I just think it has a very low probability of happening (< 5%).

But how many would be leaving from a team that is flawed and maxed out, though very good, to a better situation. Embiid is capable of having a Duncan like impact early on, like next year early on. There will be guards that salivate over playing with him. Add on that it's a great fit, he's from here, and he has the close connection with BC and I would say it's a lot closer to a 50 percent chance than a 5.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[eskimo]

Well they are gonna get bounced again (obviously) and he is from here, loves BC, and seriously could see us with him, Embiid, Simmons, Covington, Noel, and so on as the most legitimate threat to Cleveland, now, and at the end of his 4 year max. He also may see this as somewhere he can age much more gracefully between us having Simmons as a point forward, and probably drafting a young guard to play behind and then next to him. Which would help him in his next and most likely last contract.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

I know some people get caught up in this hometown story business but how many stars ever left to go to their hometowns when they were at their peaks compared to staying where they are for a max deal? Lebron left Miami but that team was falling apart due to Wade's health and Bosh was a clear #3. People talked about Durant going to Washington but they didn't even get a visit. DeRozan never even visited LA.

The new CBA further incentivized not switching teams.

I'd love for Lowry to join the 76ers I just think it has a very low probability of happening (< 5%).

But how many would be leaving from a team that is flawed and maxed out, though very good, to a better situation. Embiid is capable of having a Duncan like impact early on, like next year early on. There will be guards that salivate over playing with him. Add on that it's a great fit, he's from here, and he has the close connection with BC and I would say it's a lot closer to a 50 percent chance than a 5.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

I didn't say the chance was 0% but I'd find it hard to believe he's going to leave a 55-win team to join a 28-win team backed by a Center who just missed 2 years with a navicular fracture and doesn't play on back-to-backs.

He is local and the fit would be amazing but I don't think you could sell it to him. Now if he was a FA in 2018 I think it's a very different story. I think we win 45-55 games next season if Simmons adapts to the NBA game quickly and we find some shooters in FA and get good contributions from the draft.

Unfortunately I don't see any of the big FA prizes signing here (Curry, Durant, CP3, Lowry, Blake, Gordon Hayward, Milsap, Otto Porter, KCP, Holiday).

The guy who I'd make a strong run at who would really help us is George Hill from the Jazz. They have a fair number of players under big contracts and getting Hayward re-signed will be their big priority. Hill is older but still playing very well and could take some of the load off of Simmons. I wouldn't mind taking a run at JJ Reddick as a shooter to provide some spacing for Simmons and Embiid. My third choice would be Patty Mills. If we could get 2 of those guys I'd consider it a killer off-season. Of course, getting any of the big guys would also be a coup.

[Sportfan73]

I know some people get caught up in this hometown story business but how many stars ever left to go to their hometowns when they were at their peaks compared to staying where they are for a max deal? Lebron left Miami but that team was falling apart due to Wade's health and Bosh was a clear #3. People talked about Durant going to Washington but they didn't even get a visit. DeRozan never even visited LA.

The new CBA further incentivized not switching teams.

I'd love for Lowry to join the 76ers I just think it has a very low probability of happening (< 5%).

But how many would be leaving from a team that is flawed and maxed out, though very good, to a better situation. Embiid is capable of having a Duncan like impact early on, like next year early on. There will be guards that salivate over playing with him. Add on that it's a great fit, he's from here, and he has the close connection with BC and I would say it's a lot closer to a 50 percent chance than a 5.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

I didn't say the chance was 0% but I'd find it hard to believe he's going to leave a 55-win team to join a 28-win team backed by a Center who just missed 2 years with a navicular fracture and doesn't play on back-to-backs.

He is local and the fit would be amazing but I don't think you could sell it to him. Now if he was a FA in 2018 I think it's a very different story. I think we win 45-55 games next season if Simmons adapts to the NBA game quickly and we find some shooters in FA and get good contributions from the draft.

Unfortunately I don't see any of the big FA prizes signing here (Curry, Durant, CP3, Lowry, Blake, Gordon Hayward, Milsap, Otto Porter, KCP, Holiday).

The guy who I'd make a strong run at who would really help us is George Hill from the Jazz. They have a fair number of players under big contracts and getting Hayward re-signed will be their big priority. Hill is older but still playing very well and could take some of the load off of Simmons. I wouldn't mind taking a run at JJ Reddick as a shooter to provide some spacing for Simmons and Embiid. My third choice would be Patty Mills. If we could get 2 of those guys I'd consider it a killer off-season. Of course, getting any of the big guys would also be a coup.

I truly think we have a much better shot at Lowry than Hill. Maybe we bring reddick here with him?


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[JojoSlimbiid]

In terms of impact on wins and losses I think Embiid is likely going to be ahead of Davis when its all said and done. However if we just take it on an individual level I think Anthony Davis is the most talented player in the league individually. That's removing things like will to win,making others better,etc. Just based purely on basketball skill/talent he's the best in the league right now. The rest of the young bigs are a notch below those two.

[Sportfan73]

In terms of impact on wins and losses I think Embiid is likely going to be ahead of Davis when its all said and done. However if we just take it on an individual level I think Anthony Davis is the most talented player in the league individually. That's removing things like will to win,making others better,etc. Just based purely on basketball skill/talent he's the best in the league right now. The rest of the young bigs are a notch below those two.

No disagreement here. Somewhat of the Duncan/KG argument in ways.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[CoreyGallagher]

This month, with Embiid in the game, teams are only shooting 29.3% within 6 feet of the basket. Lol...

[eskimo]

This month, with Embiid in the game, teams are only shooting 29.3% within 6 feet of the basket. Lol...

I saw that he has now moved well ahead of Gobert at defensive FG% at the rim. I think he's around 3% better which is a pretty substantial difference. I think his amount of challenges per minute played is similar and he has a higher block rate.

Of course he adds to this by being a much better player on the offensive end than Gobert who is kind of a garbageman although he is a good finisher in PnR.

It seems as though Embiid has started to gain more lift recently both defensively and offensively. It seems like most of his dunks have come in the last 3 weeks and there have been some hellacious ones like that one today and the one against the Celtics. He was really bringing the "violence at the rim" today against the Bucks. I can't wait until he learns to play through contact a bit better in the post. His offensive efficiency will really shoot up because there is no way people will be able to guard him once he is more solid in his finishing mechanics at the rim and gets another couple of inches in lift when he jumps.

[TeamHigh]

This month, with Embiid in the game, teams are only shooting 29.3% within 6 feet of the basket. Lol...

If this stat is real, that's actually terrifying...

[76ciology]

This month, with Embiid in the game, teams are only shooting 29.3% within 6 feet of the basket. Lol...

Biid seems like having the verticality of Gobert and the quickness of Noel.

Read on Twitter