Welcome Tobias Harris

[76ciology]

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MVP?

When he plays he plays like an MVP. But can you be an MVP and not play as much as other candidates for the award ? You'd have to be a super superior MVP.

Click the link. You can see who’s higher than Embiid hahaha

[76ciology]

Aside from the massive difference in 3 point shooting, statistically he's pretty much exactly the same guy as last year. Similar points, rebounds, assists, usg%, shot distribution... Turnover are up a bit and FTr is down a bit.

Kinda surprising given how much better he has seemed to look. Though maybe the awful series he had is weighing over my view of how he played last year.

Jump in transition scoring (top 5) while improving his ability to score offense in late game.

The other day, i was trying to compare him and Jimmy. And tobi is a better scorer than Jimmy. Jimmy’s scoring is actually quite overrated.

But the big difference is, Tobi’s scoring is more like icing on the cake. While Jimmy’s scoring is like a cup cake. Jimmy’s can be a main guy on offense while Tobi works better if there is a main guy where he space the floor, do a little 2 man game, score opportunistic on transition and be an alternative option in crunch time.

I just think the nature in today’s NBA is the offense is just ridiculous that you need your 2nd scorer to be a cupcake or a cake than an icing. He needs to be able to carry your scoring. And this hasnt been an issue when Biid is playing, when he’s probably the best player in the league now. The issue is more glaring when Biid is not playing.

[M2J]

Aside from the massive difference in 3 point shooting, statistically he's pretty much exactly the same guy as last year. Similar points, rebounds, assists, usg%, shot distribution... Turnover are up a bit and FTr is down a bit.

Kinda surprising given how much better he has seemed to look. Though maybe the awful series he had is weighing over my view of how he played last year.

Well he's playing more within the flow of the offense and it does feel different because of his decisiveness. Nevermind 10% increase in 3pt shooting is just what the team needed. He's also more decisive with his 3s. Catches and quick release. Last year, he was double clutching 3s, hesitating and while he ended up taking 5, he didn't seem to hunt the shot. Now he's taking less, and it feels like he's hunting the shot more, because he is.

[Zumramania]

Jump in transition scoring (top 5) while improving his ability to score offense in late game.

The other day, i was trying to compare him and Jimmy. And tobi is a better scorer than Jimmy. Jimmy’s scoring is actually quite overrated.

But the big difference is, Tobi’s scoring is more like icing on the cake. While Jimmy’s scoring is like a cup cake. Jimmy’s can be a main guy on offense while Tobi works better if there is a main guy where he space the floor, do a little 2 man game, score opportunistic on transition and be an alternative option in crunch time.

I just think the nature in today’s NBA is the offense is just ridiculous that you need your 2nd scorer to be a cupcake or a cake than an icing. He needs to be able to carry your scoring. And this hasnt been an issue when Biid is playing, when he’s probably the best player in the league now. The issue is more glaring when Biid is not playing.

Among other things, Jimmy is just more aggressive. Check out the difference in free throws attempted between the two of them.

[76ciology]

Jump in transition scoring (top 5) while improving his ability to score offense in late game.

The other day, i was trying to compare him and Jimmy. And tobi is a better scorer than Jimmy. Jimmy’s scoring is actually quite overrated.

But the big difference is, Tobi’s scoring is more like icing on the cake. While Jimmy’s scoring is like a cup cake. Jimmy’s can be a main guy on offense while Tobi works better if there is a main guy where he space the floor, do a little 2 man game, score opportunistic on transition and be an alternative option in crunch time.

I just think the nature in today’s NBA is the offense is just ridiculous that you need your 2nd scorer to be a cupcake or a cake than an icing. He needs to be able to carry your scoring. And this hasnt been an issue when Biid is playing, when he’s probably the best player in the league now. The issue is more glaring when Biid is not playing.

Among other things, Jimmy is just more aggressive. Check out the difference in free throws attempted between the two of them.

Yup. Good point.

I find Tobi like settling for mid range jumpers.

[51X3RF4N]

I think this current version of Tobias is the best he is gonna ever play. But, I also think he can play at this level, or close to it, for an entire season. He did similarly well last time he played for Doc. He was a borderline All Star, which is the reason we traded for him.

I really think 2 things- 1 is his weight seems to be down from last season. I'm not sure the reason, stress of dealing with Brett and Horford, or what. But he looks visibly in better shape which I think is allowing him to play more consistently. 2 he is making quicker decisions because Brett got in his head and had him overthinking every possession.

Now, is this version of Tobias worth his contract? No. But it's a lot closer than it was with the way he played last season.

And what does Playoff Tobias really look like?? This will be the biggest determining factor in whether he ends up being the right 3rd wheel for this team.

In theory, you could try to trade him to maximize returns now, but even so you won't be getting a good deal most likely.

So, I have set my mind to holding onto Tobias, continuing to build continuity with Embiid, and hoping this version is who shows up come playoff time.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

[elchengue20]

I would definitively try to trade him for a more perimeter oriented player of the same calibeer. Like a Middelton or someone on that level. We would be miles better as a team.

[youngcrev]

Aside from the massive difference in 3 point shooting, statistically he's pretty much exactly the same guy as last year. Similar points, rebounds, assists, usg%, shot distribution... Turnover are up a bit and FTr is down a bit.

Kinda surprising given how much better he has seemed to look. Though maybe the awful series he had is weighing over my view of how he played last year.

Well he's playing more within the flow of the offense and it does feel different because of his decisiveness. Nevermind 10% increase in 3pt shooting is just what the team needed. He's also more decisive with his 3s. Catches and quick release. Last year, he was double clutching 3s, hesitating and while he ended up taking 5, he didn't seem to hunt the shot. Now he's taking less, and it feels like he's hunting the shot more, because he is.

I agree that he seems more decisive with the ball (something Doc has been harping on since the day he was hired). His percentages from 3 are likely to normalize at some point, so hopefully a cold streak doesn't lead to the old bad habits.

[M2J]

I would definitively try to trade him for a more perimeter oriented player of the same calibeer. Like a Middelton or someone on that level. We would be miles better as a team.

He's playing so well it's hard to do right now.

I've been thinking about possible trades for DeRozan or CJ, or Victor.... It's a struggle to pull that trigger for me. Probably for CJ

[elchengue20]

I would definitively try to trade him for a more perimeter oriented player of the same calibeer. Like a Middelton or someone on that level. We would be miles better as a team.

He's playing so well it's hard to do right now.

I've been thinking about possible trades for DeRozan or CJ, or Victor.... It's a struggle to pull that trigger for me. Probably for CJ

That's the key. Selling high. Before the season most people wanted to trade Tobias. If you move him, it's has to be when he's playing well.If you also can get a player who fits better, that's a huge win.

DeRozan is a terrible fit, we can't have another player who is afraid to shoot 3's, plus he's getting old now. Cj would be great, but don't see them trading him for Tobias, at least no yet.

Oladipo is interesting, but i'm not sold on him. It's worth evaluating.

[M2J]

I would definitively try to trade him for a more perimeter oriented player of the same calibeer. Like a Middelton or someone on that level. We would be miles better as a team.

He's playing so well it's hard to do right now.

I've been thinking about possible trades for DeRozan or CJ, or Victor.... It's a struggle to pull that trigger for me. Probably for CJ

That's the key. Selling high. Before the season most people wanted to trade Tobias. If you move him, it's has to be when he's playing well.If you also can get a player who fits better, that's a huge win.

DeRozan is a terrible fit, we can't have another player who is afraid to shoot 3's, plus he's getting old now. Cj would be great, but don't see them trading him for Tobias, at least no yet.

Oladipo is interesting, but i'm not sold on him. It's worth evaluating.

I get that for sure, but I think it's good to see how well this team can play and possibly trade him in the off-season

[phillynative]

I would definitively try to trade him for a more perimeter oriented player of the same calibeer. Like a Middelton or someone on that level. We would be miles better as a team.

If were going to trade Tobias it has to be for someone who can break down the defense. Middleton may be slightly more perimeter oriented but he doesnt do that either.

[elchengue20]

I would definitively try to trade him for a more perimeter oriented player of the same calibeer. Like a Middelton or someone on that level. We would be miles better as a team.

If were going to trade Tobias it has to be for someone who can break down the defense. Middleton may be slightly more perimeter oriented but he doesnt do that either.

Yeah, Middelton is not ideal but he's still a player who perfectly can drop 7-8 asists and 4-5 threes in one game. That would open up our game quite a bit.

I'm just saying that our roster construction is bad. Tobias is not what we need if we are going to keep Ben and Biid.

If you already have a C in Embiid and a player who can't shoot in Simmons, don't surround them with a PF in Tobias who doesn't have a deadly 3 point shot or guard skills, and likes to operate inside-out.Hell, even he like to post up quite often. The past FO has done a terrible job and we should trade him now while he's playing well.Also, he's not a plus defensively.

[SixthStreet]

I don't think you can replace him in a mid-season with a better player without handicapping yourself on draft futures. So because of that I keep him for this run with MVBiid. Then after next offseason's FA frenzy he should definitely be able to be dumped without assets attached before the season if he keeps this level of play. One season less on the contract and there will be more worse contracts out there in dollars and term.

[DCasey91]

Aside from the massive difference in 3 point shooting, statistically he's pretty much exactly the same guy as last year. Similar points, rebounds, assists, usg%, shot distribution... Turnover are up a bit and FTr is down a bit.

Kinda surprising given how much better he has seemed to look. Though maybe the awful series he had is weighing over my view of how he played last year.

Jump in transition scoring (top 5) while improving his ability to score offense in late game.

The other day, i was trying to compare him and Jimmy. And tobi is a better scorer than Jimmy. Jimmy’s scoring is actually quite overrated.

But the big difference is, Tobi’s scoring is more like icing on the cake. While Jimmy’s scoring is like a cup cake. Jimmy’s can be a main guy on offense while Tobi works better if there is a main guy where he space the floor, do a little 2 man game, score opportunistic on transition and be an alternative option in crunch time.

I just think the nature in today’s NBA is the offense is just ridiculous that you need your 2nd scorer to be a cupcake or a cake than an icing. He needs to be able to carry your scoring. And this hasnt been an issue when Biid is playing, when he’s probably the best player in the league now. The issue is more glaring when Biid is not playing.

Jimmy is a way better scorer than Harris if anything it’s an underrated part of his game (Very high free throw rate, way better scorer in general because he can be a 3 lvl scorer no question). His offense beside scoring is tiers above Harris they’re not close when it comes to offensive packages.

Butler is just under (top 15) or can be top ten in the comp when he turns it on as we’ve seen in the playoffs. Someone like him would offset all our halfcourt problems in the one go.

Need a scorer on the outside check.
Need a primary ballhandler/creator/scorer crunch time or half court setting check.
Need a player to run the offense at all times when Embiid is out check.
He’s a high quality Swiss Army knife on offense.

Fwiw Harris hasn’t shown me anything to suggest he’ll be an acceptable 3rd option on offense let alone a 2nd option. (His last two playoffs have been abysmal). But the funny thing is it’s not actually far of his production capacity.

Harrison Barnes playing now would be more of ideal fit as the 3rd option (can play off ball/ just does things better than Harris can).
There’s a very good reason as to why Harris hasn’t been better than an above average offensive player on the whole. His FG% from the eye looks impressive (on the stat sheet) but watch him extremely closely he’s not a great/elite offensive threat at all. (He av 20ppg per 36 that ain’t 2nd option terrirtory).
His assist numbers/ free throw rate / USG conversion isn’t close to great/Elite offensive players.


Btw I’m very high on Oladipo

Full fit & firing he can certainly be 22/5/5 two way guy.

Mitigates our outside problems while being a positive defender on the other end. Perfect for us

I’m not very high on just shooters and shooters alone or scorers and scoring alone. there needs to be some sort of elite point of difference to cause a difference in the Playoffs (I hazard to guess that’s why Green always seems to have elite impact as a role player in a Chip winning team as opposed to Someone like Lou William/J Crawford).

[ivysixer2000]

Or we could just trade him for JImmmy.......wait a min, nevermind.

The problem that I see with trading Tobias is the fact that it would leave a huge hole at the 4 with every trade mentioned. Having Ben gives us flexibility, but it would take some backbone to tell him he's moving to the 4 unless your actually comfortable starting Mike Scott.

[Arsenal]

Or we could just trade him for JImmmy.......wait a min, nevermind.

The problem that I see with trading Tobias is the fact that it would leave a huge hole at the 4 with every trade mentioned. Having Ben gives us flexibility, but it would take some backbone to tell him he's moving to the 4 unless your actually comfortable starting Mike Scott.

Agree. If we trade him we need a stretch forward back. If we trade for a guy like Oladipo for example, we may be better off in the future but could easily be worse this season.

[ivysixer2000]

Or we could just trade him for JImmmy.......wait a min, nevermind.

The problem that I see with trading Tobias is the fact that it would leave a huge hole at the 4 with every trade mentioned. Having Ben gives us flexibility, but it would take some backbone to tell him he's moving to the 4 unless your actually comfortable starting Mike Scott.

Agree. If we trade him we need a stretch forward back. If we trade for a guy like Oladipo for example, we may be better off in the future but could easily be worse this season.

Yeah trying to upgrade the 2 while sacrificing the 4 could be a bad idea, especially when I'd rather have Green in the starting lineup over Mike Scott. Plus we are playing well, no reason to rock the boat unless its a definite upgrade.

Oladipo would be a good fit for this team, course they would probably throw in Tucker who would make me puke every night. Houston has already shown they will not give us a fair deal anyway, along with the fact that he wants to play for the Heat.

[youngcrev]

There's no way Houston is taking Harris' contract, so I wouldn't worry about that in an Oladipo trade.

[DCasey91]

Or we could just trade him for JImmmy.......wait a min, nevermind.

The problem that I see with trading Tobias is the fact that it would leave a huge hole at the 4 with every trade mentioned. Having Ben gives us flexibility, but it would take some backbone to tell him he's moving to the 4 unless your actually comfortable starting Mike Scott.

I actually prefer Ben in the PF spot (It’s his actual spot imo)

Playmaking PF, Small Ball in the playoffs when Embiid sits. Roll man. Those are better concepts for Ben scoring opportunities than being an outside shooter for sure. Bag in a hook or a floater and I’ll be happy. With three outside shooters plus Embiid’s midrange game it’s fine. Harris + Simmons clunks up the space still because they both like to lurk inside there too much. With just Simmons/Embiid plus outside shooters/scorers it’ll be fine.

13/7/7 DPOY Wing SF/PF versatile 3rd option Ala Draymond Green. If he nails down a hook/floater

Easily 16+ a game

Once we get a legit 2nd option (Beal/Oladipo/Maybe Lavine possibly not whoever it is that we can bank on to score in the halfcourt consistently on great volume or playmake at a high lvl or do both).

We won’t need Harris at all.

Curry
Oladipo
Green
Simmons
Embiid

Lowry
Green
Simmons
Harris
Embiid

Curry
Lavine
Green
Simmons
Embiid

Curry
Beal
Green
Harris
Embiid

Any of those four interations with added depth could go very far imo.