2016 NBA Draft/College Basketball Thread

[sixerhp3]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_F-hDlD6TKo

Don't sleep on Jaylen Brown. That dunk...

[tsmith]

ingram's last few games has been alot better

[Wilfried]

brandon ingram isn't that good.

why people can't see that, is hard for me to understand

He's actually starting to come around the last 2 games

Nice to hear

[KramerDSP]

Way too early mock of the top 6 is below. I know some of you hate using NBA comparisons, because it's a lazy and inaccurate way of evaluating talent, but I'm trying to think of the guys in this draft in terms of floors and ceilings, and my brain processes this data better when I can throw out crude NBA comparisons to get a feel for the draft.

1) Ben Simmons (Floor - Lamar Odom. Ceiling - Magic Johnson)
2) Dragan Bender (Floor - , Ceiling - Pau Gasol)
3) Brandon Ingram (Floor - , Ceiling - Kevin Durant)
4) Skal Labissiere (Floor- , Ceiling - LaMarcus Aldridge)
5) Kris Dunn (Floor - , Ceiling - Russell Westbrook)
6) Jamal Murray (Floor - , Ceiling - Brandon Roy)

Simmons is the one guy I feel absolutely cannot bust in the NBA. His floor is higher than anyone else's floor, IMO, and his ceiling is up there with the other top ceiling guys in this draft, so he's a clearcut #1 to me. It gets murkier with the next five, but any two of the next five is interesting to think about.

if we don't get the first overall pick, but the lakers pick conveys, we could draft our backcourt of the future in Dunn+Murray, try to create Durant-Westbrook II in Dunn+Ingram, we could pair up Dragan Bender with Joel Embiid and have Kris Dunn or Jamal Murray passing them the ball.

And if we win the lottery thanks to ourselves or the Kings, AND the Lakers pick conveys? Have mercy, lord! Ben Simmons + our choice of Jamal Murray or Kris Dunn (Murray would be my preference due to his shooting).

[Agnostifarian]

I was very impressed with the way Dragen Bender plays fundamental defense in the DX Scouting Report. His bbiq is high. He's just turned 18 and is coordinated despite his 9' 3" standing reach. He would be a great compliment to Noel's defense. He'd be great with Saric too. Intriguing prospect.

[Duke4life831]

I think you guys are getting a little carried away with Simmons. I think his upside is Odom but, Odom had a better shot coming out. think Simmons has the chance to be a star but, you guys are acting like he's in the LBJ, Curry type superstar, and he just isn't that.

Agreed with everything here. He looks like Odom 2.0 to me. And that is a really good thing. Odom in his prime was one damn good player. Hes a really good 2nd option and if hes your 3rd your team is going to be in the finals probably.

[Duke4life831]

brandon ingram isn't that good.

why people can't see that, is hard for me to understand

He's actually starting to come around the last 2 games

Nice to hear

It has been against terrible competition though so you have to take that into consideration. Indiana doesnt play any D at all, I mean at all. Then the 2nd game came against a pretty bad Buffalo team. But he definitely looked like he was playing with more intensity and aggression. The dude can basically finger roll it in from taking off from the free throw line, he is so long. Im very curious if he can keep this up after the 10 day break and against better competition

[OleSchool]

I think you guys are getting a little carried away with Simmons. I think his upside is Odom but, Odom had a better shot coming out. think Simmons has the chance to be a star but, you guys are acting like he's in the LBJ, Curry type superstar, and he just isn't that.

Agreed with everything here. He looks like Odom 2.0 to me. And that is a really good thing. Odom in his prime was one damn good player. Hes a really good 2nd option and if hes your 3rd your team is going to be in the finals probably.

Obviously I agree with you. Comparing Simmons to Odom is not a bad thing. I Just think some people are getting a little carried away with his potential and what he can end up being.

[Ericb5]

I think you guys are getting a little carried away with Simmons. I think his upside is Odom but, Odom had a better shot coming out. think Simmons has the chance to be a star but, you guys are acting like he's in the LBJ, Curry type superstar, and he just isn't that.

Agreed with everything here. He looks like Odom 2.0 to me. And that is a really good thing. Odom in his prime was one damn good player. Hes a really good 2nd option and if hes your 3rd your team is going to be in the finals probably.

Obviously I agree with you. Comparing Simmons to Odom is not a bad thing. I Just think some people are getting a little carried away with his potential and what he can end up being.

He's better than Odom though. Odom was not a superstar, and Simmons is already in my opinion. They are on different levels.

He is closer to Lebron James even if he is a notch bellow him athletically. Lebron couldn't shoot at the same age either. So I'm not saying that he will ever be as good as Lebron is today, but I think that outside of pure athleticism(Simmons is still a borderline great athlete) that they are very similar as 18 year olds.


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[Duke4life831]

Agreed with everything here. He looks like Odom 2.0 to me. And that is a really good thing. Odom in his prime was one damn good player. Hes a really good 2nd option and if hes your 3rd your team is going to be in the finals probably.

Obviously I agree with you. Comparing Simmons to Odom is not a bad thing. I Just think some people are getting a little carried away with his potential and what he can end up being.

He's better than Odom though. Odom was not a superstar, and Simmons is already in my opinion. They are on different levels.

He is closer to Lebron James even if he is a notch bellow him athletically. Lebron couldn't shoot at the same age either. So I'm not saying that he will ever be as good as Lebron is today, but I think that outside of pure athleticism(Simmons is still a borderline great athlete) that they are very similar as 18 year olds.


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What are you basing this off of? His performances against the likes of North Florida? Lamar had a much better perimeter game, came in and shot 36% from 3 his first year. Odom in his prime was basically getting around 17, 10 and 5. Where exactly do you think Simmons is going to be far superior at? As of right now with Simmons I can't see him being a 20 point a game guy. He's a really good rebounder but around 9-10 a night is pretty damn good. Simmons assists are probably going to be around 4-5 as well. Odom was also the far superior defender. I think Simmons in his prime is going to post stats very very similar to say 17, 10 and 5.

[Ericb5]

Obviously I agree with you. Comparing Simmons to Odom is not a bad thing. I Just think some people are getting a little carried away with his potential and what he can end up being.

He's better than Odom though. Odom was not a superstar, and Simmons is already in my opinion. They are on different levels.

He is closer to Lebron James even if he is a notch bellow him athletically. Lebron couldn't shoot at the same age either. So I'm not saying that he will ever be as good as Lebron is today, but I think that outside of pure athleticism(Simmons is still a borderline great athlete) that they are very similar as 18 year olds.


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What are you basing this off of? His performances against the likes of North Florida? Lamar had a much better perimeter game, came in and shot 36% from 3 his first year. Odom in his prime was basically getting around 17, 10 and 5. Where exactly do you think Simmons is going to be far superior at? As of right now with Simmons I can't see him being a 20 point a game guy. He's a really good rebounder but around 9-10 a night is pretty damn good. Simmons assists are probably going to be around 4-5 as well. Odom was also the far superior defender. I think Simmons in his prime is going to post stats very very similar to say 17, 10 and 5.

I think that Simmons will get to the 25-8-8 type of level someday, and I base it just off of what I have seen them both do. I remember Odom as a freshman, and he was good, but he wasn't this good.

Odom was a better outside shooter early, but that can be improved. Simmons sees the floor better, and is faster.

Plus Odom is not a leader, and Simmons is. In fact Odom is a world class knucklehead.




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[Duke4life831]

He's better than Odom though. Odom was not a superstar, and Simmons is already in my opinion. They are on different levels.

He is closer to Lebron James even if he is a notch bellow him athletically. Lebron couldn't shoot at the same age either. So I'm not saying that he will ever be as good as Lebron is today, but I think that outside of pure athleticism(Simmons is still a borderline great athlete) that they are very similar as 18 year olds.


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What are you basing this off of? His performances against the likes of North Florida? Lamar had a much better perimeter game, came in and shot 36% from 3 his first year. Odom in his prime was basically getting around 17, 10 and 5. Where exactly do you think Simmons is going to be far superior at? As of right now with Simmons I can't see him being a 20 point a game guy. He's a really good rebounder but around 9-10 a night is pretty damn good. Simmons assists are probably going to be around 4-5 as well. Odom was also the far superior defender. I think Simmons in his prime is going to post stats very very similar to say 17, 10 and 5.

I think that Simmons will get to the 25-8-8 type of level someday, and I base it just off of what I have seen them both do. I remember Odom as a freshman, and he was good, but he wasn't this good.

Odom was a better outside shooter early, but that can be improved. Simmons sees the floor better, and is faster.

Plus Odom is not a leader, and Simmons is. In fact Odom is a world class knucklehead.




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How is he going to be a 25 point scorer? And I thought you said he was a step down from Lebron? Lebron has never averaged 8 rebounds and 8 assists before in a season. His career average is 27, 7 and 7. So 25, 8 and 8 is basically prime Lebron. I just don't see how he's going to score 25 a game. He's very limited when it comes to scoring. He is literally scoring because of his size and athleticism advantage right now. He won't have that advantage when he's in the NBA. He has no jumper, none and very very limited post skills. He's not a scorer and he's a bad defender.

I'll give you 3 names, Russell Westbrook, Lebron James and James Harden. Those are the only 3 guys to average at least 25 a game last year. We are talking about the elite scorers in the NBA.

[Mik317]

players can get better at things they are currently not great at

[marcush]

I'm not one for hyperbole but Simmons could very well average 26 boards per game next to Okafor, conversely, he may get 0 FGA.

[Ericb5]

What are you basing this off of? His performances against the likes of North Florida? Lamar had a much better perimeter game, came in and shot 36% from 3 his first year. Odom in his prime was basically getting around 17, 10 and 5. Where exactly do you think Simmons is going to be far superior at? As of right now with Simmons I can't see him being a 20 point a game guy. He's a really good rebounder but around 9-10 a night is pretty damn good. Simmons assists are probably going to be around 4-5 as well. Odom was also the far superior defender. I think Simmons in his prime is going to post stats very very similar to say 17, 10 and 5.

I think that Simmons will get to the 25-8-8 type of level someday, and I base it just off of what I have seen them both do. I remember Odom as a freshman, and he was good, but he wasn't this good.

Odom was a better outside shooter early, but that can be improved. Simmons sees the floor better, and is faster.

Plus Odom is not a leader, and Simmons is. In fact Odom is a world class knucklehead.




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How is he going to be a 25 point scorer? And I thought you said he was a step down from Lebron? Lebron has never averaged 8 rebounds and 8 assists before in a season. His career average is 27, 7 and 7. So 25, 8 and 8 is basically prime Lebron. I just don't see how he's going to score 25 a game. He's very limited when it comes to scoring. He is literally scoring because of his size and athleticism advantage right now. He won't have that advantage when he's in the NBA. He has no jumper, none and very very limited post skills. He's not a scorer and he's a bad defender.

I'll give you 3 names, Russell Westbrook, Lebron James and James Harden. Those are the only 3 guys to average at least 25 a game last year. We are talking about the elite scorers in the NBA.

I am saying that he is a step down athletically from Lebron, but you don't need to be a great athlete to be a great facilitator. To be honest, I don't know what kind of stats he will have at his peak because he can get a lot better, or maybe he won't get a lot better.

I think that he will be an elite scorer and facilitator in the Lebron mold. Will he be an elite defender? Not sure.

I have only seen the kid play 5 games or so, and I am obviously projecting, but I feel like it is as clear as day that he is going to be a superstar. He has the intangibles of a superstar, and an innate feel for the game that only the great ones have. He also has great physical skills. He isn't on the same level as Lebron as an athlete, but he is better than Durant, and Harden in that department.

There is nothing wrong with his shooting form, and he is 18-19 years old. If he hasn't gotten any better at that by the time he is 22 then his ceiling as a scorer will be lower, but he has plenty of time.

I don't think that he is a post player so lack of post skills is not part of the equation for me at the moment. Lebron developed his jumper and his post skills after he got to the NBA, and I don't see why Simmons won't do the same.

If we get the first pick then he is the no brainer selection. The rest is just nitpicking imo.

[Illmatic12]

Ben Simmons isn't an elite scorer. I've never seen an elite scorer without a jumper or any post moves, so if Simmons is that then he'd be the first in basketball history. His best scoring game in college (so far) came against a mid-major who was playing 5 guards, Simmons was by far the tallest and most athletic guy on the court, and scored all of his points in the paint.


Superstars have the air of being 'unstoppable'. BS is only unstoppable in transition, in the half court he can be neutralized unless he develops shooting or a semblance of a low post game. You can watch him and clearly see he doesn't have any natural half court instincts to score, he would rather pass the ball off to someone else. Lebron from day 1 was unguardable both in transition and the half court game. His jumper was streaky, but he at least had enough of one to keep the defense honest for his explosive drives. Guys like Lebron, Durant, even Wiggins at that age were making instinctual moves in the half court, Simmons looks stiff and unsure of himself in those same situations.


Ben Simmons is imo the clear #1 pick THIS year, his strength, size, and skills in transition stand out above the rest of the crop. But this 'superstar', 'greatest prospect since Lebron' etc stuff is media hyperbole. He's not even the greatest prospect since last year, or the year before (yes, Wiggins > Simmons, he has a much higher potential in the half court). With Simmons, if he develops a decent jumper I think you're getting someone like a Lamar Odom with lesser defense but greater offense, which would be a very good player after a few seasons.

[Ericb5]

Ben Simmons isn't an elite scorer. I've never seen an elite scorer without a jumper or any post moves, so if Simmons is that then he'd be the first in basketball history. His best scoring game in college (so far) came against a mid-major who was playing 5 guards, Simmons was by far the tallest and most athletic guy on the court, and scored all of his points in the paint.


Superstars have the air of being 'unstoppable'. BS is only unstoppable in transition, in the half court he can be neutralized unless he develops shooting or a semblance of a low post game. You can watch him and clearly see he doesn't have any natural half court instincts to score, he would rather pass the ball off to someone else. Lebron from day 1 was unguardable both in transition and the half court game. His jumper was streaky, but he at least had enough of one to keep the defense honest for his explosive drives. Guys like Lebron, Durant, even Wiggins at that age were making instinctual moves in the half court, Simmons looks stiff and unsure of himself in those same situations.


Ben Simmons is imo the clear #1 pick THIS year, his strength, size, and skills in transition stand out above the rest of the crop. But this 'superstar', 'greatest prospect since Lebron' etc stuff is media hyperbole. He's not even the greatest prospect since last year, or the year before (yes, Wiggins > Simmons, he has a much higher potential in the half court). With Simmons, if he develops a decent jumper I think you're getting someone like a Lamar Odom with lesser defense but greater offense, which would be a very good player after a few seasons.

For the record, I am saying that I believe that he will grow into an elite scorer, and not that he is one now. I guess it would also depend on how we define an elite scorer.

[Duke4life831]

Ben Simmons isn't an elite scorer. I've never seen an elite scorer without a jumper or any post moves, so if Simmons is that then he'd be the first in basketball history. His best scoring game in college (so far) came against a mid-major who was playing 5 guards, Simmons was by far the tallest and most athletic guy on the court, and scored all of his points in the paint.


Superstars have the air of being 'unstoppable'. BS is only unstoppable in transition, in the half court he can be neutralized unless he develops shooting or a semblance of a low post game. You can watch him and clearly see he doesn't have any natural half court instincts to score, he would rather pass the ball off to someone else. Lebron from day 1 was unguardable both in transition and the half court game. His jumper was streaky, but he at least had enough of one to keep the defense honest for his explosive drives. Guys like Lebron, Durant, even Wiggins at that age were making instinctual moves in the half court, Simmons looks stiff and unsure of himself in those same situations.


Ben Simmons is imo the clear #1 pick THIS year, his strength, size, and skills in transition stand out above the rest of the crop. But this 'superstar', 'greatest prospect since Lebron' etc stuff is media hyperbole. He's not even the greatest prospect since last year, or the year before (yes, Wiggins > Simmons, he has a much higher potential in the half court). With Simmons, if he develops a decent jumper I think you're getting someone like a Lamar Odom with lesser defense but greater offense, which would be a very good player after a few seasons.

For the record, I am saying that I believe that he will grow into an elite scorer, and not that he is one now. I guess it would also depend on how we define an elite scorer.

I think everyone gets what you're saying. What we are saying, usually an elite scorer has some type of elite or really good skill set by this age. Simmons doesn't. As of right now he doesn't have a good skill set when it comes to scoring. He doesn't just have a bad jumper or inconsistent jumper. He doesn't have a jumper right now. And he has no low post skills to speak of. When he scores down low right now it's mostly just because he's so much bigger and stronger than everyone. I mean the dude got blocked 3-4 times when trying to do low post moves against Southern Baptist. He's scoring right now because he's so much bigger and athletic compared to everyone he's playing. He has also played against a cup cake schedule. Look the guy is going to be great from day 1 in transition, I don't think anyone is denying that. He just hasn't shown anything where people believe he can score in half court. Even with a ton of progression we're not talking about an elite scorer, we're talking about a 15-17 point scorer. Which is why many including myself keep making the Odom comparison

[Illmatic12]

Ben Simmons isn't an elite scorer. I've never seen an elite scorer without a jumper or any post moves, so if Simmons is that then he'd be the first in basketball history. His best scoring game in college (so far) came against a mid-major who was playing 5 guards, Simmons was by far the tallest and most athletic guy on the court, and scored all of his points in the paint.


Superstars have the air of being 'unstoppable'. BS is only unstoppable in transition, in the half court he can be neutralized unless he develops shooting or a semblance of a low post game. You can watch him and clearly see he doesn't have any natural half court instincts to score, he would rather pass the ball off to someone else. Lebron from day 1 was unguardable both in transition and the half court game. His jumper was streaky, but he at least had enough of one to keep the defense honest for his explosive drives. Guys like Lebron, Durant, even Wiggins at that age were making instinctual moves in the half court, Simmons looks stiff and unsure of himself in those same situations.


Ben Simmons is imo the clear #1 pick THIS year, his strength, size, and skills in transition stand out above the rest of the crop. But this 'superstar', 'greatest prospect since Lebron' etc stuff is media hyperbole. He's not even the greatest prospect since last year, or the year before (yes, Wiggins > Simmons, he has a much higher potential in the half court). With Simmons, if he develops a decent jumper I think you're getting someone like a Lamar Odom with lesser defense but greater offense, which would be a very good player after a few seasons.

For the record, I am saying that I believe that he will grow into an elite scorer, and not that he is one now. I guess it would also depend on how we define an elite scorer.

I get what you're saying, I just think you're underestimating how hard it is to develop 'elite' skills once you're already at the NBA level, facing the best players in the world. Other than a few exceptions (which I would have to really think about to find one) it doesn't typically happen. In the NBA, Simmons is not going to be playing against unathletic college guys. He's going to face an entirely different learning curve, and history has shown that if you aren't already ahead of the curve in a particular area by the age of entering the NBA, you aren't likely to reach that point in the future.


Every single elite scorer you see in the NBA today, if you go back to their college and HS days they already showed signs of being dominant scorers. Harden, LBJ, Kobe, Curry, Durant, Griffin, Cousins - these guys are more or less playing the exact same way they played as teenagers, they're just doing it against better competition. If you watched Steph Curry in college, what he is doing now is *exactly* what he did at Davidson, he's obviously honed his physique&skills but fundamentally he is the same player. Someone like Andrew Wiggins was dropping 50-60 points in his sleep against youth competition, and it's no surprise that once he got adjusted to the NBA learning curve he's continuing to be that same type of natural scorer.

Simmons simply isn't that type of player, that's never been who he is. At every level (youth, HS, NCAA) he's basically been a big pass-first perimeter player with no jumper, he's not likely to evolve into a significantly different player, with a significantly different skillset in the NBA.

[OleSchool]

Ben Simmons isn't an elite scorer. I've never seen an elite scorer without a jumper or any post moves, so if Simmons is that then he'd be the first in basketball history. His best scoring game in college (so far) came against a mid-major who was playing 5 guards, Simmons was by far the tallest and most athletic guy on the court, and scored all of his points in the paint.


Superstars have the air of being 'unstoppable'. BS is only unstoppable in transition, in the half court he can be neutralized unless he develops shooting or a semblance of a low post game. You can watch him and clearly see he doesn't have any natural half court instincts to score, he would rather pass the ball off to someone else. Lebron from day 1 was unguardable both in transition and the half court game. His jumper was streaky, but he at least had enough of one to keep the defense honest for his explosive drives. Guys like Lebron, Durant, even Wiggins at that age were making instinctual moves in the half court, Simmons looks stiff and unsure of himself in those same situations.


Ben Simmons is imo the clear #1 pick THIS year, his strength, size, and skills in transition stand out above the rest of the crop. But this 'superstar', 'greatest prospect since Lebron' etc stuff is media hyperbole. He's not even the greatest prospect since last year, or the year before (yes, Wiggins > Simmons, he has a much higher potential in the half court). With Simmons, if he develops a decent jumper I think you're getting someone like a Lamar Odom with lesser defense but greater offense, which would be a very good player after a few seasons.

For the record, I am saying that I believe that he will grow into an elite scorer, and not that he is one now. I guess it would also depend on how we define an elite scorer.

I get what you're saying, I just think you're underestimating how hard it is to develop 'elite' skills once you're already at the NBA level, facing the best players in the world. Other than a few exceptions (which I would have to really think about to find one) it doesn't typically happen. In the NBA, Simmons is not going to be playing against unathletic college guys. He's going to face an entirely different learning curve, and history has shown that if you aren't already ahead of the curve in a particular area by the age of entering the NBA, you aren't likely to reach that point in the future.


Every single elite scorer you see in the NBA today, if you go back to their college and HS days they already showed signs of being dominant scorers. Harden, LBJ, Kobe, Curry, Durant, Griffin, Cousins - these guys are more or less playing the exact same way they played as teenagers, they're just doing it against better competition. If you watched Steph Curry in college, what he is doing now is *exactly* what he did at Davidson, he's obviously honed his physique&skills but fundamentally he is the same player. Someone like Andrew Wiggins was dropping 50-60 points in his sleep against youth competition, and it's no surprise that once he got adjusted to the NBA learning curve he's continuing to be that same type of natural scorer.

Simmons simply isn't that type of player, that's never been who he is. At every level (youth, HS, NCAA) he's basically been a big pass-first perimeter player with no jumper, he's not likely to evolve into a significantly different player, with a significantly different skillset in the NBA.

Jason Kidd is the only player, that I can think of that developed a jumper, and that took him 10+ years to do that.