Welcome James Harden!

[mjkvol]

How would you characterize his time with OKC or his series vs the bucks?

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking Durant, only adding some context to the idea of trashing Harden for not having this alleged "dog mentality".

Regarding the Bucks series, Durant choked by wearing shoes that were too large.

my thing is you said his "dog mentality" was only in GS. but he got the thunder to the finals and played great vs lebron. he has an argument for Finals MVP but that never goes to the losing team

What is it with you guys? I get it, I was making a point more about Harden.

[MrDollarBills]

I don’t like the fact he goes out and parties after getting his ass kicked. Just not a good look in my opinion.

Wait til he stops taking the team's charter on the road and hops out on his own plane to party with his rapper buddies in between road games.

[Stanford]

What is it with you guys?

Brooklyn at its finest. It is what it is.

[mjkvol]

What is it with you guys?

Brooklyn at its finest. It is what it is.

Seriously. We get it - Harden is a fat, lazy partying slob who will destroy the entire Sixers organization, the Nets are thrilled to get rid of him, Simmons is the perfect addition, and Durant has the ultimate "dog mentality".

Did I miss anything? Good, then we've been warned and informed. Now can they all just go back to their own thread?

[FireMorey]

Sixers fans went through an era of Iverson, they can handle James Harden lol. Iverson's partying and nonsense was 100x worse.

[Negrodamus]

While I'll say that concerns about Harden are overblown, Iverson averaged 41 minutes a game over his career. My dude was a freak of nature physically.

[Ferry Avenue]

You're illustrating the point exactly. Harden needs a dog like Paul around him to win at that level. The presence of Paul doesn't change the mental/emotional makeup of Harden, but it certainly changes the mental/emotional makeup of the team. When Paul goes out injured and you're left with Harden you lose the heart and soul of the team.

Certainly you don't think Chris Paul is likely to come out in that environment last night and lay an egg.

Harden like everyone else needs great players to win. And when you lose great players, it’s harder to win. They lost because they didn’t have the talent without their second best player to close the Warriors out, it didn’t have much to do with a mentality.

Yeah people tend to leave this part out when talking about chocking. CP3 was just as important as Beard that year. He was amazing. As soon as he went down all of us Houston fans knew it was over. The simple fact that were even competitive against that juggernaut without CP3 was amazing.

The problem isn't that the team didn't defeat the Warriors. The problem is that Harden didn't play in a way consistent with winning individually. We're talking about Harden's individual performance, not the team's performance. Harden could've played in a way consistent with winning individually and if the team had lost nonetheless it would be a better sign about Harden's ability to be an effective centerpiece of a team in the latter stages of the playoffs.

[downtownpie]

No it isn't, it's talent that wins, it's talent that always wins. Mentality is not tangible, you have no idea what's going through someone's mental makeup when you watch them play a basketball game.

Bucks have 1 superstar and an all star and that's it. Talent wise they weren't the best team but they got it done.

Giannis was the best player in the Suns series. The team with the best player won the series. And Holiday and Middleton and not too shabby either.

Let's not act like the Bucks are a superteam.

[FireMorey]

Bucks have 1 superstar and an all star and that's it. Talent wise they weren't the best team but they got it done.

Giannis was the best player in the Suns series. The team with the best player won the series. And Holiday and Middleton and not too shabby either.

Let's not act like the Bucks are a superteam.

I didn't even mention super team. They won because of their talent though, not their "mentality"

[Mik317]

Giannis and Middleton were career playoff choke artists prior to last year. LeBron was called that quite often too. Curry's playoff failure sure aren't held against him...and Durant lost a 3-1 series and while he was nuts...he also airballed a chance to win it last year.

sometimes it about the team around you. I feel like a lot of context is missed in these conversations.

[eyeatoma]

Giannis and Middleton were career playoff choke artists prior to last year. LeBron was called that quite often too. Curry's playoff failure sure aren't held against him...and Durant lost a 3-1 series and while he was nuts...he also airballed a chance to win it last year.

sometimes it about the team around you. I feel like a lot of context is missed in these conversations.

Shhh you're making too much sense. That's not allowed on Realgm


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[Kash22]

Giannis and Middleton were career playoff choke artists prior to last year. LeBron was called that quite often too. Curry's playoff failure sure aren't held against him...and Durant lost a 3-1 series and while he was nuts...he also airballed a chance to win it last year.

sometimes it about the team around you. I feel like a lot of context is missed in these conversations.

You’re literally a choker until you win a chip and once you do all the criticisms go away I guess, they said KD did the weakest move in nba history just five years ago and now he all of a sudden has a “dog mentality” these type of narratives are why these guys are creating super teams and quitting on teams

[stormi]

Giannis and Middleton were career playoff choke artists prior to last year. LeBron was called that quite often too. Curry's playoff failure sure aren't held against him...and Durant lost a 3-1 series and while he was nuts...he also airballed a chance to win it last year.

sometimes it about the team around you. I feel like a lot of context is missed in these conversations.

Being annoying, but I don't think Middleton was or was seen as was. He was their closer and fourth quarter shotcreator (he still is). Actually Middleton would get propped up way more because people said Giannis couldn't close games by virtue of him not having modern skills.

But I was thinking about this. Who around the league isn't seen as a "choker"?

People still say Lebron James can't win without superteams and needs others to take the big shot for him.

People call Steph Curry a front runner. 0 FMVPS. Say he's benefitted from playing with Klay and Draymond his whole career.

People called Chris Paul CP0 FOR YEARS. He was known as a perennial loser and underperformer that couldn't get out of the second round pretty much until he was old as hell, got to OKC and rebuilt his legacy.

People say KD can't win without a superteam. Underperformed vs GS in the WCF and then ran from the grind.

Kyrie achieved nothing as the lead option in Boston. He gets called the most overrated player OAT every other week when he has a bad game. Also considered an elite #2 as opposed to a true #1.

"Playoff P"

The only established superstar I think that gets his alltime credit and playoff due is Kawhi Leonard, and rightfully so. He's a playoff menace that actually becomes more efficient as the season goes on...

Maybe Dame too, but people also say you can't win with him as your #1... So what are we doing here.

We're just being reactionary for the sake of being reactionary.

[Zumramania]

Kawhi choked in that series against the Nuggets, that was one of the most embarrasing playoff losses in general I can think of. In the Raptors he joined a team that was already good without him, in the Spurs he also had co-stars...

[mjkvol]

Giannis and Middleton were career playoff choke artists prior to last year. LeBron was called that quite often too. Curry's playoff failure sure aren't held against him...and Durant lost a 3-1 series and while he was nuts...he also airballed a chance to win it last year.

sometimes it about the team around you. I feel like a lot of context is missed in these conversations.

Being annoying, but I don't think Middleton was or was seen as was. He was their closer and fourth quarter shotcreator (he still is). Actually Middleton would get propped up way more because people said Giannis couldn't close games by virtue of him not having modern skills.

But I was thinking about this. Who around the league isn't seen as a "choker"?

People still say Lebron James can't win without superteams and needs others to take the big shot for him.

People call Steph Curry a front runner. 0 FMVPS. Say he's benefitted from playing with Klay and Draymond his whole career.

People called Chris Paul CP0 FOR YEARS. He was known as a perennial loser and underperformer that couldn't get out of the second round pretty much until he was old as hell, got to OKC and rebuilt his legacy.

People say KD can't win without a superteam. Underperformed vs GS in the WCF and then ran from the grind.

Kyrie achieved nothing as the lead option in Boston. He gets called the most overrated player OAT every other week when he has a bad game. Also considered an elite #2 as opposed to a true #1.

"Playoff P"

The only established superstar I think that gets his alltime credit and playoff due is Kawhi Leonard, and rightfully so. He's a playoff menace that actually becomes more efficient as the season goes on...

Maybe Dame too, but people also say you can't win with him as your #1... So what are we doing here.

We're just being reactionary for the sake of being reactionary.

Really, in the last 30 years what HOF level players can completely avoid the 'choker' label? Jordan, Kobe, Shaq, maybe Kawhi and Lillard?

If Lillard is in that group, then anyone who balled out in big spots but may not have had the team to win a chip would have to be included. AI? Certainly Wade, who I can't remember playing badly in big games and did win a chip with two different groups?

Are Stockton, Malone, and Barkley 'chokers'? What exactly are the criteria of being one?

It's such a subjective label, which is why I rarely if ever use it. There are way too many variables (health, luck, draw, etc.) involved in winning a title unless the team is just a monster, like the Warriors.

[Ferry Avenue]

The thing to look at here is a player's pattern of individual performance in clutch situations in meaningful games and in the playoffs. Players will inevitably exhibit exceptions to their rules in either direction (good or bad), but the overall pattern of individual performance is what's critical in determining whether a player is likely to rise to the occasion in big games.

Ben Simmons for example may have had some great performances here or there in big games, but his overall pattern of performance in such games had nobody believing he was likely to rise to the occasion in such games. Likewise LeBron James may have had some clunkers in big games here or there, but that does nothing to deter anyone from believing he's likely to show up big in the next one.

[DHM]

I don’t like the fact he goes out and parties after getting his ass kicked. Just not a good look in my opinion.

Wait til he stops taking the team's charter on the road and hops out on his own plane to party with his rapper buddies in between road games.

Wait till you play Toronto in the play in and Mr flat earth can’t play in ANY games. Lol

It’ll be a quick exit for ya. What are the chances mr burner account makes it through the year healthy? 10%?

[HardenGoat]

There’s a lot of doomsday takes going on from this last loss. It’s one regular season game and yes it exposed a lot. But it is correctable. This is a squad that is still going to need games to figure it all out. The pick and roll is dependent on having floor spacing and that is going to require role players to shoot even if they miss a few. Thybulle was left open while Curry helped clog the driving lanes. You can’t have that if you want the system to flow. Thybulle has to shoot the ball. He had success cutting prior but that won’t even work when your defender plays deeper near the paint all the time. It is something that has to be fixed. We also have to fix the defense, we allowed open 3’s from Curry and even Durant. Plus James Johnson had a ridiculous game against us offensively. He was poorly defended the entire game. You can’t let those lapses in defense happen.

[DHM]

There’s a lot of doomsday takes going on from this last loss. It’s one regular season game and yes it exposed a lot. But it is correctable. This is a squad that is still going to need games to figure it all out. The pick and roll is dependent on having floor spacing and that is going to require role players to shoot even if they miss a few. Thybulle was left open while Curry helped clog the driving lanes. You can’t have that if you want the system to flow. Thybulle has to shoot the ball. He had success cutting prior but that won’t even work when your defender plays deeper near the paint all the time. It is something that has to be fixed. We also have to fix the defense, we allowed open 3’s from Curry and even Durant. Plus James Johnson had a ridiculous game against us offensively. He was poorly defended the entire game. You can’t let those lapses in defense happen.

If I’m not mistaken Milwaukee got beat by 40 last year in a regular season game

[HardenGoat]

Bucks have been playing a long time together and they can have a stinker without too much happening. We had one and certainly need changes. Better to figure it out now then right before playoffs. I don’t buy this game being a foreshadow of what is to come. Harden despite the narrative is not going to quit. He is hungry for a chip. He’s not looking for max money he wants a team that is balanced on both ends and knows Morey will work with him to get that done. Just let this play out. Study the film, there is plenty to learn and some simple adjustments right now will equate to more wins.