New GM search [SPOILER: It's Elton Brand]

[Sixerscan]

He just needed SOMETHING to be in place. Even Ryan McDonough (a bad GM) had more to show to his investors. He had Devin Booker and T.J. Warren in place. You can continue to pitch your vision when you have something concrete to show. Hinkie had terrible players putting up empty counting stats and underperforming prospects that were looking like busts.

McDonough got 6 years.

I'm not disagreeing that, if Hinkie only had 3 years to prove himself, he should have had more in place. I'm saying he was probably under the impression that he had at least one more season.
Which, again, he probably would have gotten had the league not stepped in.

[BullyKing]

He just needed SOMETHING to be in place. Even Ryan McDonough (a bad GM) had more to show to his investors. He had Devin Booker and T.J. Warren in place. You can continue to pitch your vision when you have something concrete to show. Hinkie had terrible players putting up empty counting stats and underperforming prospects that were looking like busts.

See that's nonsense to me. If the owners signed up for taking Embiid and Saric then the fact that neither was "in place" can't be held against him.

[TTP]

He just needed SOMETHING to be in place. Even Ryan McDonough (a bad GM) had more to show to his investors. He had Devin Booker and T.J. Warren in place. You can continue to pitch your vision when you have something concrete to show. Hinkie had terrible players putting up empty counting stats and underperforming prospects that were looking like busts.

TJ Warren in April, 2016, was a terrible player putting up empty counting stats so it's weird to list him as some sort of positive. They also had Alex Len, who was picked one pick ahead of Noel, and was basically viewed as a zero by that point - at minimum, massively worse going forward than Noel.

[Kobblehead]

And if he got that extra season, ownership would have seen Embiid and Saric and everything might have been okay. But he still has to blame himself for being 0-3 on lotto picks (0-4 if you count Stauskas) and not having any footage to send to the production company to justify the production budget on his film.

[TTP]

And if he got that extra season, ownership would have seen Embiid and Saric and everything might have been okay. But he still has to blame himself for being 0-3 on lotto picks (0-4 if you count Stauskas) and not having any footage to send to the production company to justify the production budget on his film.

You can't count both Noel and Embiid as zeroes. There was no point in time that both were viewed as zeroes.

[Kobblehead]

TJ Warren in April, 2016, was a terrible player putting up empty counting stats so it's weird to list him as some sort of positive. They also had Alex Len, who was picked one pick ahead of Noel, and was basically viewed as a zero by that point - at minimum, massively worse going forward than Noel.

A lot of young players suck early, but coaches know when a guy is a worker or not. They communicate that to the front office and ownership. They know when they have a good asset on their hands. It's hard to imagine Sarver didn't feel good about T.J. Warren and Devin Booker. He probably knew Len was a mistake. Just like our guy probably knew Noel was.

[Kobblehead]

And if he got that extra season, ownership would have seen Embiid and Saric and everything might have been okay. But he still has to blame himself for being 0-3 on lotto picks (0-4 if you count Stauskas) and not having any footage to send to the production company to justify the production budget on his film.

You can't count both Noel and Embiid as zeroes. There was no point in time that both were viewed as zeroes.

I didn't count Embiid as a zero. I had him and Saric as assets, outstanding.

Carter-Williams - bust
Noel - bust
Stauskas (if applicable) - bust
Okafor - bust

[TTP]

TJ Warren in April, 2016, was a terrible player putting up empty counting stats so it's weird to list him as some sort of positive. They also had Alex Len, who was picked one pick ahead of Noel, and was basically viewed as a zero by that point - at minimum, massively worse going forward than Noel.

A lot of young players suck early, but coaches know when a guy is a worker or not. They communicate that to the front office and ownership. They know when they have a good asset on their hands. It's hard to imagine Sarver didn't feel good about T.J. Warren and Devin Booker. He probably knew Len was a mistake. Just like our guy probably knew Noel was.

Some serious mental gymnastics here because your previous argument was all about the results of what they show outwardly. Under this argument, they would have known that they still had good assets on their hands in Embiid and Saric.

[Sixerscan]

And if he got that extra season, ownership would have seen Embiid and Saric and everything might have been okay. But he still has to blame himself for being 0-3 on lotto picks (0-4 if you count Stauskas) and not having any footage to send to the production company to justify the production budget on his film.

If the agreement with the production company was that they didn't need to see the footage until 2017 I'm not sure what the justification is in getting mad that the footage isn't ready in 2016.

It's pretty obvious they changed the terms of the deal because of the nba/Colangelos.

[Kobblehead]

I'm concluding that they knew Noel was a bust. They knew he wasn't working. Showing up late to meetings and practices, rumblings of his lifestyle off the court. We heard about the rental home incident, how many little other things did they know that we don't? They can call it on guys pretty early.

[TTP]

And if he got that extra season, ownership would have seen Embiid and Saric and everything might have been okay. But he still has to blame himself for being 0-3 on lotto picks (0-4 if you count Stauskas) and not having any footage to send to the production company to justify the production budget on his film.

You can't count both Noel and Embiid as zeroes. There was no point in time that both were viewed as zeroes.

I didn't count Embiid as a zero. I had him and Saric as assets, outstanding.

Carter-Williams - bust
Noel - bust
Stauskas (if applicable) - bust
Okafor - bust

You can use whatever mental gymnastics you want to mentally convince yourself that Noel was viewed as a bust in April, 2016, but the objective evidence disagrees. Noel was offered a 4 year, 70 million dollar contract by another team in July, 2017.

[Kobblehead]

Why do you keep using money other teams throw at a player to determine whether or not a pick was good or not? People throw money at and give multiple chances to hyped players all the time.

[TTP]

Why do you keep using money other teams throw at a player to determine whether or not a pick was good or not? People throw money at and give multiple chances to hyped players all the time.

Because it's a better indicator of leaguewide perception than what Kobblehead from RealGM thinks.

[Kobblehead]

And shortly after their irrational contract offer was turned down, he revealed himself to be a bust to them, as well, and he was doghoused for the rest of his stay.

I don't have any clout, but if you had a conversation with Brett Brown and Rick Carlisle, what do you think they'd say about Nerlens Noel being a bust or not?

[Sixerscan]

And shortly after their irrational contract offer was turned down, he revealed himself to be a bust to them, as well, and he was doghoused for the rest of his stay.

I don't have any clout, but if you had a conversation with Brett Brown and Rick Carlisle, what do you think they'd say about Nerlens Noel being a bust or not?

Is Josh Harris coming from 2016 in a time machine to have this conversation? (He's probably rich enough to arrange one)

[Kobblehead]

If the agreement with the production company was that they didn't need to see the footage until 2017 I'm not sure what the justification is in getting mad that the footage isn't ready in 2016.

It's pretty obvious they changed the terms of the deal because of the nba/Colangelos.

True, but if you show up on set to see the cast in action and all they have is a supporting actor in like 5 scenes (Robert Covington) and an extra (T.J. McConnell), you're going to feel pretty panicked about what you agreed to and want to abort. Especially if some Hollywood council is harassing you about how embarrassing the production on the film has been.

[Sixerscan]

If the agreement with the production company was that they didn't need to see the footage until 2017 I'm not sure what the justification is in getting mad that the footage isn't ready in 2016.

It's pretty obvious they changed the terms of the deal because of the nba/Colangelos.

True, but if you show up on set to see the cast in action and all they have is a supporting actor in like 5 scenes (Robert Covington) and an extra (T.J. McConnell), you're going to feel pretty panicked about what you agreed to and want to abort. Especially if some Hollywood council is harassing you about how embarrassing the production on the film has been.

Yeah he took a risk the league wasn't going to step in, Colangelo wouldn't get hired, Bryan wouldn't miss out on the Nets job, ect.

Can't anticipate everything.

[JojoSlimbiid]

Read on Twitter

I can't actually believe this. Jesus christ

[Kobblehead]

Is it fair to speculate that Sam Hinkie wasn't able to see where the league was heading?

It seems like a lot of the personnel he targeted were skill-less athletes.

- Michael Carter-Williams
- Tony Wroten
- Nerlens Noel
- K.J. McDaniels
- Jerami Grant
- Jakarr Sampson
- Ish Smith

I'm half-surprised we didn't just keep Elfrid Payton instead of moving him for Saric.

[76thBearCub]

Is it fair to speculate that Sam Hinkie wasn't able to see where the league was heading?

It seems like a lot of the personnel he targeted were skill-less athletes.

- Michael Carter-Williams
- Tony Wroten
- Nerlens Noel
- K.J. McDaniels
- Jerami Grant
- Jakarr Sampson
- Ish Smith

I'm half-surprised we didn't just keep Elfrid Payton instead of moving him for Saric.

Only 2 of them were picked with consequential picks though. And it could be argued that both should be playing big minutes if it wasn't do to mental makeup. MCW was actually playing real minutes for the Rockets last night, and there is absolutely no reason Noel shouldn't be playing major minutes for an NBA team this year.