Around the League Discussion - 2018-2019 (Playoffs)

the_process · Post #761 » by **the_process** » Tue Jul 9, 2019 2:29 am

Kobblehead wrote:Jabari Parker is a huge value for Atlanta.

I assume you’re talking about Jabari’s weight?

Kobblehead · Post #762 » by **Kobblehead** » Tue Jul 9, 2019 2:41 am

It doesn't make any sense to thumb your nose up at Jabari Parker when we have Mike Scott in the role that Jabari would have filled at like 80% of the money Jabari would have cost us.

Jabari Parker is on a another planet on both ends. Mike Scott is an average scoring talent and he can't defend even if he tries. Parker can defend when he wants to.

mithrandir17 · Post #763 » by **mithrandir17** » Tue Jul 9, 2019 2:42 am

kuclas wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:Don't want it to but I'm pretty sure Ben Simmons pulls this when LeBron retires. So that will be in about 3-4 years. The writing is on the wall. He'll make a power move to get to the Lakers. I only hope we have leverage so we can pull a Pelicans/Thunder style trade. It'll be a shame because he'll probably have a jumper by then and be a top 10 player minimum. The league needs to get this in check during the next CBA. When is that btw?

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

I’m sure Simmons will move to LA as well. It’s closer to Australia anyways. So he can fly back home a little easier. But clippers could land him also. So lakers aren’t the only destination anymore in LA.

LOL

Skates · Post #764 » by **Skates** » Tue Jul 9, 2019 3:00 am

Kobblehead wrote:It doesn't make any sense to thumb your nose up at Jabari Parker when we have Mike Scott in the role that Jabari would have filled at like 80% of the money Jabari would have cost us.

Jabari Parker is on a another planet on both ends. Mike Scott is an average scoring talent and he can't defend even if he tries. Parker can defend when he wants to.

So he just never wants to then? Hmm, interesting Parker theory, but honestly sounds more like trying to make the narrative fit your thoughts.

Kobblehead · Post #765 » by **Kobblehead** » Tue Jul 9, 2019 3:06 am

People act like he wasn't a tremendous defender at Duke and hasn't ever d'ed it up at the NBA level.

Yeah, his knees suck and he made that stupid comment about defense. But the whole "Jabari Parker is a sieve" is an inaccurate narrative. Like I said, he was excellent defensively for Washington in a 25 game stretch. That was the last time he was on the court so I'm just going to assume there's going to be some carryover, there.

Again, the alternative is Mike Scott. A dude who cannot defend even if he tried to. And who doesn't have anywhere near the scoring talent of Jabari.

Post #766 » by **Sixerscan** » Tue Jul 9, 2019 3:25 am

Jabari got more money than Scott did.

Kobblehead · Post #767 » by **Kobblehead** » Tue Jul 9, 2019 3:38 am

Right, but only like $2m more. Couldn't we have just let Scott walk and not signed O'Quinn and had room for Jabari?

I like KOQ, but we're not playing 3 Cs in our playoff rotation.

Post #768 » by **Sixerscan** » Tue Jul 9, 2019 3:54 am

Kobblehead wrote:Right, but only like $2m more. Couldn't we have just let Scott walk and not signed O'Quinn and had room for Jabari?

I like KOQ, but we're not playing 3 Cs in our playoff rotation.

KOQ got the minimum which you can go over the cap to sign, has nothing to do with Scott, who got the room exception. Parker signed over a week later also was probably asking for a lot more before someone made him see reality.

Skates · Post #769 » by **Skates** » Tue Jul 9, 2019 4:26 am

Sixerscan wrote:
Kobblehead wrote:Right, but only like $2m more. Couldn't we have just let Scott walk and not signed O'Quinn and had room for Jabari?

I like KOQ, but we're not playing 3 Cs in our playoff rotation.

KOQ got the minimum which you can go over the cap to sign, has nothing to do with Scott, who got the room exception. Parker signed over a week later also was probably asking for a lot more before someone made him see reality.

KOQ’s biggest value will be eating minutes at decent replacement value, above replacement on D I hope, throughout the season to reduce/limit the load on both Embiid and Horford so that come playoff time they are both fresh and healthy. That is a huge upgrade over last year. He or someone like him is an absolute necessity in the long run for this team to thrive.

I’m far from the biggest Mike Scott fan, even last year I preferred Ennis as a pick up down the stretch, but don’t overstate Parker’s value, his D in college was mostly long arms in a zone and if he really could consistently play D in this league he would be getting a contract that dwarfs Scott’s deal. I think the team likes Scott’s toughness and fit, his outside shot is streaky, but he isn’t a ball stopping iso guy as Parker can sometimes be (while being a better all around scorer than Scott, no argument there).

There are guys I regret missing on this summer, but Parker is pretty far down that list, especially on a team that looks very much like it will go back to switching on every screen this year.

Kobblehead · Post #770 » by **Kobblehead** » Tue Jul 9, 2019 12:02 pm

If Scotty Brooks was able to reach Jabari and get him to play defense, I'm confident that Lloyd Pierce will do the same. Feel like Brett Brown could have, as well.

the_process · Post #771 » by **the_process** » Tue Jul 9, 2019 1:49 pm

I’d rather have Scott on the RE than Jabari at the minimum. While I understand the use of a bench scorer here, the fact is he’s a black hole on offense and that doesn’t work on this team.

76ciology · Post #772 » by **76ciology** » Tue Jul 9, 2019 5:17 pm

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/a-better-way-to-evaluate-nba-defense/

Remember during the Jah debates when I used to point out opponents DFG% against Jah? 538 finally got almost the same rating system.

*see how Jah ranks in 2018-2019

Bum Adebayo · Post #773 » by **Bum Adebayo** » Tue Jul 9, 2019 8:54 pm

The chart shows what we all knew:
-Embiid is an underrated defender.
-Simmons is an overrated defender, as we all knew.
-Jah is underrated defender and is not as bad of a player as people thought.

Bum Adebayo · Post #774 » by **Bum Adebayo** » Tue Jul 9, 2019 8:57 pm

And Jabari Parker doesn't care about defense, I know we all like good offensive players with zero defense, and it is fantastic to not give a damn about playing defense, it sends the right message and helps to build dat culture, but let's not try to sell the story about him being capable of playing good defense. He doesn't care about defense, he said it, end of story. We have that player in Shayok so we are already set, except he at least tries on defense.

Kobblehead · Post #775 » by **Kobblehead** » Tue Jul 9, 2019 9:30 pm

It's becoming more and more evident that whether or not a guy plays defense is apparently in the eye of the beholder.

I've been having page-long arguments for years telling people that Jokic was a stud defender and comparable to Al Horford on the defensive end.

Post #776 » by **Sixerscan** » Tue Jul 9, 2019 9:46 pm

Kobblehead wrote:It's becoming more and more evident that whether or not a guy plays defense is apparently in the eye of the beholder.

I've been having page-long arguments for years telling people that Jokic was a stud defender and comparable to Al Horford on the defensive end.

Defense is just such a total team effort that it’s extremely difficult to measure statistically for any individual player. It also depends on scheme a lot more. Like if someone hits a mid range jump in Embiid’s face, is it because Jo didn’t defend it right or because the coaches told him to not go all the way out on it because doing that would lead to some other more efficient shot elsewhere?

phiphan · Post #777 » by **phiphan** » Tue Jul 9, 2019 9:49 pm

Bum Adebayo wrote:The chart shows what we all knew:
-Embiid is an underrated defender.
-Simmons is an overrated defender, as we all knew.
-Jah is underrated defender and is not as bad of a player as people thought.

Simmons is the highest rated point guard on the list and is in line with touted wing defenders like Danny Green and Klay Thompson.

Bum Adebayo · Post #778 » by **Bum Adebayo** » Tue Jul 9, 2019 10:44 pm

Kobblehead wrote:It's becoming more and more evident that whether or not a guy plays defense is apparently in the eye of the beholder.

I've been having page-long arguments for years telling people that Jokic was a stud defender and comparable to Al Horford on the defensive end.

The conclusion is that Jokic is an overrated defender.

The most overrated defenders include players such as Westbrook, Rondo, Ariza, Otto Porter Jr. and Nikola Jokic.

But yeah, it doesn't mean he is not a good defender, he is, just that other stats overrate his defensive impact. Besides, Jokic tries on defense, that is the difference between him and the Evin Booker or Jabari Parker of the world. Jokic contributes to winning because he cares about defense, Booker is a loser because he doesn't!

Bum Adebayo · Post #779 » by **Bum Adebayo** » Tue Jul 9, 2019 10:51 pm

phiphan wrote:
Bum Adebayo wrote:The chart shows what we all knew:
-Embiid is an underrated defender.
-Simmons is an overrated defender, as we all knew.
-Jah is underrated defender and is not as bad of a player as people thought.

Simmons is the highest rated point guard on the list and is in line with touted wing defenders like Danny Green and Klay Thompson.

Overrated in comparison to the other metrics and compared to what his fanboys claim as an elite defender. He is a good defender, needs to keep working to be elite.

Arsenal · Post #780 » by **Arsenal** » Tue Jul 9, 2019 11:02 pm

Bum Adebayo wrote:
phiphan wrote:
Bum Adebayo wrote:The chart shows what we all knew:
-Embiid is an underrated defender.
-Simmons is an overrated defender, as we all knew.
-Jah is underrated defender and is not as bad of a player as people thought.

Simmons is the highest rated point guard on the list and is in line with touted wing defenders like Danny Green and Klay Thompson.

Overrated in comparison to the other metrics and compared to what his fanboys claim as an elite defender. He is a good defender, needs to keep working to be elite.

We need Ben Simmons to bring Draymond-esque defensive impact. He has the athleticism and bball iq to do it.

He'll never bring superstar impact on the offensive end, so he needs to bring it on D.