Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4

[mjkvol]

The Sixers likely view Harris the way we fans should. Which is that he's an overpaid, but perfectly serviceable upper-midcard player that has more value to us than he would to other teams so there's logic is just riding out the contract.

Not a big fan of telling people what they should think or feel about anything, but that aside, if needing to pay max money in order to get "serviceable upper-midcard players" (which is a perfect description of Harris) to play here, then we might as well sell high on Embiid, cash all our chips in and restart The Process, because that's the only way we'll ever have a shot at sniffing a title here.

And I question his value to us given the incredibly poor fit he is next to Embiid. Like others have said, perhaps with a Lillard in place of Simmons, the fit is more palatable, but that's becoming more and more unlikely to happen. It doesn't seem to be a franchise option, but moving Harris for a piece that fits better would be the quickest way to improve this roster.

[Kobblehead]

The only valid criticism of Harris, at this point, is that he's a dweeb that chased a 40-50-90 shooting split season and hurt the team with an unwillingness to be more of a spacer.

Beyond that, though? He's no longer a black hole. He's one of few guys on the team that can score unassisted buckets. And he slides over and gives defensive effort and occasionally gets a weakside block.

Update your scouting reports, people. Anyone still acting like Harris is a problem is relying on dusty takes.

[stormi]

Tobias Harris was one of three players on this roster that scored unassisted buckets last year (the other two being Maxey and Milton).

He's made marked improvement on noted weaknesses of his (shotcreating, ball movement, helpside defense).

What's the problem, here? He's overpaid, but perfectly serviceable. And again, our 2nd best player in the playoffs last year.

Statisically far from the truth and he was the least impactful player from that starting five.

Anyone with eyes could see Tobias Harris was the only player in our starting lineup you give the ball to ask him to make a play.

This is a huge reason why the playoffs have gone the way they've gone, specifically in 2020 and 2021...

He's a roleplayer being tasked with a job that punches well above his weight, and he's drowning in the process. His best playoffs box-score wise was in 2019 when he was essentially a spot up shooter / tertiary ballhandler that was only really relied on creating during broken plays or end of shot clock scenario's.

Anyways Curry was relied upon much more once it was obvious he was the best halfcourt dribbler on the team. This is why Tobias had multiple zero point fourth quarters in the Atlanta series. The ball was plucked from his hands.

[stormi]

Would we say Tobias Harris is a better player than Draymond Green, because he's "given the ball and asked to make a play" while Draymond isn't? Like that's silly, imo.

Skillset is absolutely important in identifying a players worth, but the relative ability within the subset of players that share 'your ability' matter just as much. Tobias Harris is garbage in a ball-handling role, so why would we ever prop that up like it's a positive attribute.

[Kobblehead]

Having Ben Simmons in a playoff offense is like driving a car with only three working tires.

Focusing on replacing one of the three working tires while you literally have a flat that prevents you from driving at all is ridiculous.

[LeonJordanJr24]

Embiid and Tobias duo got swept by Boston. Embiid needs Ben to stay in top 3/4 in east.

For the 100th time Tobias for a scoring guard.

[stormi]

Having Ben Simmons in a playoff offense, alongside no other natural ballhandlers is like driving a car with only three working tires.

Focusing on replacing one of the three working tires while you literally have a flat that prevents you from driving at all is ridiculous.

FTFY.

Ben's a top five transition player in the league and creates more value with his passing alone than Tobias Harris does with his stone age bullyball "shotcreation". His ability to be operated as a slasher would come to life alongside a playmaker as well.

[stormi]

Embiid and Tobias duo got swept by Boston. Embiid needs Ben to stay in top 3/4 in east.

For the 100th time Tobias for a scoring guard.

This is the ideal scenario, but the issue is Tobias has no value. Nobody wants him. That's why this discourse is fairly moot.

[Sportfan73]

That is exactly what he is, and if he is next to Durant/Harden, Lebron/AD, Kawhi/George, etc, you can accept that. However, Ben becoming an offensive liability and Embiid being a post big who can’t create off the dribble, all of a sudden the pressure on the $35 million Harris mounted. He isn’t going to be a legit second star because Ben fell apart. For arguments same, if we had Lillard instead of Ben, Tobias’ flaws are a little more palatable.

Until we get a second star who can create and take over end of games, Tobias will stay under the microscope.

Why are we building superteams under the premise of sheltering a 35 Million dollar statistical playoff liability / boat anchor.

Yeah Brogdon is only 1 year younger, but he has a ton less minutes/mileage on him. And his game is even less athleticism based than CJ’s. I also think he’s an absolute perfect fit with Maxey. 6’5 and can guard either spot, gets his own shot, facilitates, but is great off the ball as well. Sexton is younger, but also 6’1 and not amazing off ball. So the value/potential play is definitely sexton, but if we REALLY believe in Maxey a guy like Brogdon or if we could get him Haliburton(kind of a younger Brogdon actually) would be great

[Sportfan73]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

Go get Maxey a running mate that pushes Curry to the bench and let’s go

Haliburton and Ball were the guys. C&S 3 point shooters, elite passers with switchability defense.

Brogdon fits as well

[stormi]

That is exactly what he is, and if he is next to Durant/Harden, Lebron/AD, Kawhi/George, etc, you can accept that. However, Ben becoming an offensive liability and Embiid being a post big who can’t create off the dribble, all of a sudden the pressure on the $35 million Harris mounted. He isn’t going to be a legit second star because Ben fell apart. For arguments same, if we had Lillard instead of Ben, Tobias’ flaws are a little more palatable.

Until we get a second star who can create and take over end of games, Tobias will stay under the microscope.

Why are we building superteams under the premise of sheltering a 35 Million dollar statistical playoff liability / boat anchor.

Yeah Brogdon is only 1 year younger, but he has a ton less minutes/mileage on him. And his game is even less athleticism based than CJ’s. I also think he’s an absolute perfect fit with Maxey. 6’5 and can guard either spot, gets his own shot, facilitates, but is great off the ball as well. Sexton is younger, but also 6’1 and not amazing off ball. So the value/potential play is definitely sexton, but if we REALLY believe in Maxey a guy like Brogdon or if we could get him Haliburton(kind of a younger Brogdon actually) would be great

Malcolm Brogdon is a killer. One of my favorite players in the league.

[the_process]

Embiid and Tobias duo got swept by Boston. Embiid needs Ben to stay in top 3/4 in east.

For the 100th time Tobias for a scoring guard.

This is the ideal scenario, but the issue is Tobias has no value. Nobody wants him. That's why this discourse is fairly moot.

So pay OKC and dump his ass.

Beasley, McDaniels, Brown, 2023 MIN 1st, and 2025 PHI 1st to DET
Simmons to MIN
Harris, 2023 PHI 1st, and 2025 MIN 1st to OKC
Grant, Prince, Jerome, 2027 MIN 1st, and swap rights w/MIN in 22, 24, and 26 to PHI

Curry/Milton/Jerome
Green/Maxey/Springer
Korkmaz/Thybulle/Joe/Prince
Grant/Niang/Reed
Embiid/Drummond/Bassey

[Kobblehead]

Embiid and Tobias duo got swept by Boston. Embiid needs Ben to stay in top 3/4 in east.

For the 100th time Tobias for a scoring guard.

First off, that was mandatory summer camp. That was not a legitimate postseason.

Secondly, Simmons getting hurt was a straight subtraction from the lineup that allowed a sweep to take place. We're not cutting Ben Simmons. He's getting traded. Meaning someone of value will be coming back.

[stormi]

Embiid and Tobias duo got swept by Boston. Embiid needs Ben to stay in top 3/4 in east.

For the 100th time Tobias for a scoring guard.

This is the ideal scenario, but the issue is Tobias has no value. Nobody wants him. That's why this discourse is fairly moot.

So pay OKC and dump his ass.

Beasley, McDaniels, Brown, 2023 MIN 1st, and 2025 PHI 1st to DET
Simmons to MIN
Harris, 2023 PHI 1st, and 2025 MIN 1st to OKC
Grant, Prince, Jerome, 2027 MIN 1st, and swap rights w/MIN in 22, 24, and 26 to PHI

Curry/Milton/Jerome
Green/Maxey/Springer
Korkmaz/Thybulle/Joe/Prince
Grant/Niang/Reed
Embiid/Drummond/Bassey

Honestly I'd rather keep Harris and try to swindle him for another player when his contract is a bit shorter. Maybe next summer. Ideally we hit on our iteration of the Bledsoe for Holiday swap.

[the_process]

This is the ideal scenario, but the issue is Tobias has no value. Nobody wants him. That's why this discourse is fairly moot.

So pay OKC and dump his ass.

Beasley, McDaniels, Brown, 2023 MIN 1st, and 2025 PHI 1st to DET
Simmons to MIN
Harris, 2023 PHI 1st, and 2025 MIN 1st to OKC
Grant, Prince, Jerome, 2027 MIN 1st, and swap rights w/MIN in 22, 24, and 26 to PHI

Curry/Milton/Jerome
Green/Maxey/Springer
Korkmaz/Thybulle/Joe/Prince
Grant/Niang/Reed
Embiid/Drummond/Bassey

Honestly I'd rather keep Harris and try to swindle him for another player when his contract is a bit shorter. Maybe next summer. Ideally we hit on our iteration of the Bledsoe for Holiday swap.

Nope. Addition by subtraction. Jerami >> Tobias.

[76ciology]

Tobias is valuable with this team because we have a drought in perimeter scoring. While Ben is not valuable to us because we dont have any problems on defense.

Let’s say we have Harden instead of Ben, then Tobi would be toxic given our less reliance with his scoring while being paid that much.

Let’s say we have Harden instead of Tobi, then Ben would be a valuable piece for the team.

Put any perimeter scorer on this team and he’d be much better on this team.

Put any one sided good defensive player on this team and his defense would undervalued on this team

[Kobblehead]

Nope. Addition by subtraction. Jerami >> Tobias.

Jerami Grant would be a glorified Saric in this offense. He can't dribble. Harris can create off the bounce.

[the_process]

Embiid and Tobias duo got swept by Boston. Embiid needs Ben to stay in top 3/4 in east.

For the 100th time Tobias for a scoring guard.

That was the goofy Horford/Richardson roster. That doesn't count for anything. They would've lost that series even with Simmons.

[76ciology]

Nope. Addition by subtraction. Jerami >> Tobias.

Jerami Grant would be a glorified Saric in this offense. He can't dribble. Harris can create off the bounce.

Jerami Grant would look like how he was with the Nuggets with this team.

[the_process]

Nope. Addition by subtraction. Jerami >> Tobias.

Jerami Grant would be a glorified Saric in this offense. He can't dribble. Harris can create off the bounce.

Harris' creation is far overstated. And while I agree Jerami is far from perfect, he shoots league average with volume and can get to the rim.