The Tomjas Thread

[stormi]

Dejounte Murray
.69ppp on PnR
.72ppp on ISO
^ more than half of all his possessions.

If I have to choose between Maxey or Dejounte to take over the game on offense, I’d choose Maxey (1.08ppp on PnR).

There’s just ABSOLUTELY NO WAY Morey and Doc will trade for Murray

There's just something about Dejounte that's off to me. It's Richardson all over again. Maybe a rolls royce Richardson. Not in terms of playstyle, or ability. Dejounte is tiers above. But we'd be bringing him in to play a certain role, and he's okay at it, he's been the Spurs leader this year and is playing great basketball, but not the level we'd need to win a championship.

He lives in the midrange too much and I don't trust that shot at all.

If we get him, whatever. But he's way down on my targets list.

[Black Mage]

Nope, you're wrong. Good talk.

Murray is hitting career highs in small sample, otherwise, Maxey in just his 2nd year is matching or beating Murray's numbers in his 2nd through 4th seasons.

So while Murray might be an upgrade right now, Maxey is hardly "along for the ride" and he certainly shoots, passes and defends better than Murray did at similar career arcs.

The point I think you were trying to make is that Murray is entering his prime and thus is a better starting option for this team this year, but Maxey will end up the better player.

Murray was 2nd team all-NBA defense in 2018, when he was 21 years old. Same age as Maxey. Maxey will not sniff that list.

That was the year he played only 21 mins a game and didn't start half of them. He also barely scored or assisted or did much of anything else. In other words he was Matisse. The bright side? His defensive metrics dropped precipitously when he was asked to become a starter and run the offense!

[davesilver]

1st in ORTG, 17th in DRTG.

Safe to say we need at least one piece who's a net neutral or better on defense in whatever Simmons trade we accept.

Ben - Lonzo swap would be nice. Not gonna happen though

[Negrodamus]

Murray is hitting career highs in small sample, otherwise, Maxey in just his 2nd year is matching or beating Murray's numbers in his 2nd through 4th seasons.

So while Murray might be an upgrade right now, Maxey is hardly "along for the ride" and he certainly shoots, passes and defends better than Murray did at similar career arcs.

The point I think you were trying to make is that Murray is entering his prime and thus is a better starting option for this team this year, but Maxey will end up the better player.

Murray was 2nd team all-NBA defense in 2018, when he was 21 years old. Same age as Maxey. Maxey will not sniff that list.

That was the year he played only 21 mins a game and didn't start half of them. He also barely scored or assisted or did much of anything else. In other words he was Matisse. The bright side? His defensive metrics dropped precipitously when he was asked to become a starter and run the offense!

What's the defensive metric you're going by that suggest Maxey is going to be a better defender?

[stormi]

6'5
Shot >5 3PA's per game as a rookie and hit them over 40%
Only being assisted on 27% of his field goals this season
Defensive phenom
>5 assists per game as a rookie and a sophomore
Only 21 years old

FREE HIM.

[Black Mage]

Murray was 2nd team all-NBA defense in 2018, when he was 21 years old. Same age as Maxey. Maxey will not sniff that list.

That was the year he played only 21 mins a game and didn't start half of them. He also barely scored or assisted or did much of anything else. In other words he was Matisse. The bright side? His defensive metrics dropped precipitously when he was asked to become a starter and run the offense!

What's the defensive metric you're going by that suggest Maxey is going to be a better defender?

I didn't say he'd be a better defender, I said a better player. Maxey may end up being a neutral defender. The point I was making is that Maxey is far from being "along for the ride" or that he can't shoot, pass or defend.

[Kolkmania]

Dejounte Murray
.69ppp on PnR
.72ppp on ISO
^ more than half of all his possessions.

If I have to choose between Maxey or Dejounte to take over the game on offense, I’d choose Maxey (1.08ppp on PnR).

There’s just ABSOLUTELY NO WAY Morey and Doc will trade for Murray

There's just something about Dejounte that's off to me. It's Richardson all over again. Maybe a rolls royce Richardson. Not in terms of playstyle, or ability. Dejounte is tiers above. But we'd be bringing him in to play a certain role, and he's okay at it, he's been the Spurs leader this year and is playing great basketball, but not the level we'd need to win a championship.

He lives in the midrange too much and I don't trust that shot at all.

If we get him, whatever. But he's way down on my targets list.

I don't watch enough Spurs games to have a strong opinion, but he's certainly not the player type I would like to trade for. What happened with Derrick White by the way? I've always liked his game, quicker trigger, solid decision maker and (while certainly not the same level as Murray) a decent defender.

[76ciology]

Dejounte Murray
.69ppp on PnR
.72ppp on ISO
^ more than half of all his possessions.

If I have to choose between Maxey or Dejounte to take over the game on offense, I’d choose Maxey (1.08ppp on PnR).

There’s just ABSOLUTELY NO WAY Morey and Doc will trade for Murray

There's just something about Dejounte that's off to me. It's Richardson all over again. Maybe a rolls royce Richardson. Not in terms of playstyle, or ability. Dejounte is tiers above. But we'd be bringing him in to play a certain role, and he's okay at it, he's been the Spurs leader this year and is playing great basketball, but not the level we'd need to win a championship.

He lives in the midrange too much and I don't trust that shot at all.

If we get him, whatever. But he's way down on my targets list.

His scoring is very Jrich. Very low pts/FGA and .80+-ish PnR scoring when Murray’s numbers normalize from his current horrible PnR scoring numbers. His numbers is clearly getting inflated by the Spurs coaching and FO, its very similar to Josh Rich circa 2018-2019 when Heat was trying to inflate Josh Rich to land them Jimmy.

[DCasey91]

Dejounte Murray
.69ppp on PnR
.72ppp on ISO
^ more than half of all his possessions.

If I have to choose between Maxey or Dejounte to take over the game on offense, I’d choose Maxey (1.08ppp on PnR).

There’s just ABSOLUTELY NO WAY Morey and Doc will trade for Murray

There's just something about Dejounte that's off to me. It's Richardson all over again. Maybe a rolls royce Richardson. Not in terms of playstyle, or ability. Dejounte is tiers above. But we'd be bringing him in to play a certain role, and he's okay at it, he's been the Spurs leader this year and is playing great basketball, but not the level we'd need to win a championship.

He lives in the midrange too much and I don't trust that shot at all.

If we get him, whatever. But he's way down on my targets list.

His scoring is very Jrich. Very low pts/FGA and .80+-ish PnR scoring when Murray’s numbers normalize from his current horrible PnR scoring numbers. His numbers is clearly getting inflated by the Spurs coaching and FO, its very similar to Josh Rich circa 2018-2019 when Heat was trying to inflate Josh Rich to land them Jimmy.

Who you like 76ciology? (Surely everyone has a list lol)

[stormi]

Dejounte Murray
.69ppp on PnR
.72ppp on ISO
^ more than half of all his possessions.

If I have to choose between Maxey or Dejounte to take over the game on offense, I’d choose Maxey (1.08ppp on PnR).

There’s just ABSOLUTELY NO WAY Morey and Doc will trade for Murray

There's just something about Dejounte that's off to me. It's Richardson all over again. Maybe a rolls royce Richardson. Not in terms of playstyle, or ability. Dejounte is tiers above. But we'd be bringing him in to play a certain role, and he's okay at it, he's been the Spurs leader this year and is playing great basketball, but not the level we'd need to win a championship.

He lives in the midrange too much and I don't trust that shot at all.

If we get him, whatever. But he's way down on my targets list.

I don't watch enough Spurs games to have a strong opinion, but he's certainly not the player type I would like to trade for. What happened with Derrick White by the way? I've always liked his game, quicker trigger, solid decision maker and (while certainly not the same level as Murray) a decent defender.

Calling card for White has been injuries. He's been starting this year alongside Dejounte and playing pretty well. They actually have the same sorta issue Dame & CJ do. They're just way too similar as a duo and they can't cover each-weaknesses as well as you'd like from your backcourt partnership.

Videos like this are really nice for finding out what a player is all about

Watch on YouTube

Things I like about Dejounte:

- His hustle/tenacity/aggressiveness
- On&off ball defending
- Playing through contact / finishing around the rim
- shot making for others

But he also hits essentially all of my redflags. That shot from 3 scares me - and he isn't necessarily a great FT shooter. Also his inability to get to the line. His average distance per shot is also very Tobias Harris ie: he lives in the midrange, as opposed to more ideally being exclusively at the rim or from deep.

Dejounte is excelling as a #1 option this year in San Antonio, but he is he good enough to be our #1 perimeter option on a championship team - I don't think he is. Well then, does his effectiveness hold up if you moved him off-ball? I also don't think it would. Tweener dilemma.

[Negrodamus]

That was the year he played only 21 mins a game and didn't start half of them. He also barely scored or assisted or did much of anything else. In other words he was Matisse. The bright side? His defensive metrics dropped precipitously when he was asked to become a starter and run the offense!

What's the defensive metric you're going by that suggest Maxey is going to be a better defender?

I didn't say he'd be a better defender, I said a better player. Maxey may end up being a neutral defender. The point I was making is that Maxey is far from being "along for the ride" or that he can't shoot, pass or defend.

I mean, you did:

So while Murray might be an upgrade right now, Maxey is hardly "along for the ride" and he certainly shoots, passes and defends better than Murray did at similar career arcs.

Either way, I don't see why Maxey is being compared to Murray since they'd both be on the same team in this hypothetical.

[DCasey91]

Fwiw the Spurs defensive troubles are mostly in their frontcourt not their back court (backcourt is fine to me watching them).

It’s pretty much bottom tier on the bigs.

Stormi, Haliburton is like Murray except he can shoot but I don’t think the Kings are going to trade him are they?

Wouldn’t it better to trade Fox and build around Tyrese instead if they have a neg record come deadline.

Murray is more like Holiday than Richardson. He garners really good assist/rebounding numbers for a guard. And Holiday’s TS% was sub average for a long while.

Career:
Richardson per 36: 3.8 rebounds/3.3 assists
Holiday per 36: 4.3/6.9 (4.3 is off as we know he grab a lot of rebounds when need be)
Murray per 36: 8.3/5.7

Having a little Ben that’s not a liability I’m sure would be fruitful, plus he’s on a moveable contract worst case scenario.

[Kobblehead]

Kings are happy af with their team right now. They're probably not even willing to give up Hield/Barnes anymore with as good as they're playing. Ironically enough, Fox might be the guy who is most obtainable.

[Tomjas]

it may not get better.

But I doubt it gets worse.

We can trade Ben for marginal players at any time.

Hell doing the trade right now doesn't make much sense from the current team standpoint. Lets see if our own probably marginal talents are more than that.

It can always get worse

For example, what if Simmons were to suffer a serious injury before any trade is completed?

Team harmony could be impacted if they force him to play & that’s even assuming that he puts in anything like 100%

He’s going to be traded anyway so they should just send him home

They can send him home all they want but we want all his money,suck it klutch

Ffs how many times does it have to be said

THE SIXERS DON’T KEEP THE FINES

The money goes to the NBA and the Players Association who give it to charity

The Sixers are paying $33 million per year whether Simmons plays or not and it counts against the salary cap

Great fkn deal

[DCasey91]

I’d rather see the Kings trade Fox for as much as they can get back and setup like this:

Halliburton
Mitchell
Barnes
Harkless
Holmes

6th man: Hield

That backcourt is nasty asf. Upgrade Holmes and that’s a sweet two way team.

[Negrodamus]

I’d rather see the Kings trade Fox for as much as they can get back and setup like this:

Halliburton
Mitchell
Barnes
Harkless
Holmes

6th man: Hield

That backcourt is nasty asf. Upgrade Holmes and that’s a sweet two way team.

Just play Simmons and bench Harkless, start Hield, and have Mitchell run the second unit. Haliburton, Hield, Barnes, Ben, Holmes? Even Holmes might be the odd man out here, but if you can snag a stretch big, it's a crazy starting lineup.

[Kreamy]

Read on Twitter

[stormi]

I’d rather see the Kings trade Fox for as much as they can get back and setup like this:

Halliburton
Mitchell
Barnes
Harkless
Holmes

6th man: Hield

That backcourt is nasty asf. Upgrade Holmes and that’s a sweet two way team.

I'd rather see them keep Fox and trade us Haliburton, but as a Kings fan this is what I'd want.

Hali's been relegating Fox to off-ball duty this year in the clutch, it'll be his team sooner rather than later.

[stormi]

Read on Twitter

It's inevitable.

[Tomjas]

Of course Morey is going to be held accountable for the outcome. Who's saying he's not? Why shouldn't the Sixers hold Simmons to the terms of his contract? Truly bizarre stance.

They want Simmons here to trade him & in the meantime, they have hit him with the biggest fines in the history of sport while leaking to the press which downgrades his value

It’s Mismanagement 101

Morey should have been sacked at the end of pre-season as he’s being played by other GMs & is a massive liability in this situation

Could you do me, well all of us, a real favor? Stop talking.

Like, never talk again.

Thank you for your anticipated cooperation in this matter...

Respectfully,

ALL of Us.

You’re obviously part of the Sixers fanbase that has allowed emotions to take over

Won’t get you far