The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV

[DT RAW]

option 3 is the riskiest to me. You are risking both of their values going down even more. Simmons value compared to after his rookie year is insanely low. The longer we wait, the lower their value will get, specifically simmons.

When he comes into year 5 just as bad as he was year 1, 2, 3, and 4 at shooting and penetrating with the ball in the half court, teams will further look down upon him.

add on top of it his recent string of injuries, and we are playing with fire by not trading him.

Hinkie was an expert at this. I hated drafting mcw, but atleast hinkie realized quickly he was an awful pg, despite the stats, Simmons is just a bigger and more athletic version of MCW, but with an even worse shot. Hinkie would have realized that early on

[Mik317]

I don't think that LaVine deal is on the table.

You have to remember Ben is coming off of two non contact injuries and that teams are going to try to fleece us due to Brand and our current situation (here take this trash because you totally got to after that ending yo).

Thats why I say give it a real go with both at this stage.... I don't think the deal we'd get is worth it. I could be wrong of course as I am not in the room but I just feel that Ben's value is low atm if only due to others thinking his price is lower due to everything around the team. The sell high point was for Kawhii. If the "best" we get is Lavine, Lauri (who might just suck at this point) and a 4th overall pick is a weak draft..then idk if that much better than hoping on a new voice and better supporting cast helps Ben and Jo really.

[elchengue20]

option 3 is the riskiest to me. You are risking both of their values going down even more. Simmons value compared to after his rookie year is insanely low. The longer we wait, the lower their value will get, specifically simmons.

When he comes into year 5 just as bad as he was year 1, 2, 3, and 4 at shooting and penetrating with the ball in the half court, teams will further look down upon him.

add on top of it his recent string of injuries, and we are playing with fire by not trading him.

Hinkie was an expert at this. I hated drafting mcw, but atleast hinkie realized quickly he was an awful pg, despite the stats, Simmons is just a bigger and more athletic version of MCW, but with an even worse shot. Hinkie would have realized that early on

I agree. I sayed this multiple times. We need to trade Simmons while we still can get a haul for him. His value probably is going to decrease a lot. It already has comparing to his rookie season. That's what happens when a player barely improves and has a huge flaw in a crucial skill.I will add the injuries as a factor, they are also starting to be a cause of concern.

With that being sayed, right now may not be the best time to trade him, he just got injured and missed the Playoffs. Maybe we have to wait until he has a good stretch in the regular season. That's something only the FO knows. I hope that's the reason why he doesn't gets traded in the offseason, because they are waiting for better offers.

[Sixerscan]

I mean any two players can "work" if you surround them with Curry, Kobe, and Bird. Simmons and Embiid "worked" last year because they had a third star in Butler who carried the load against the Raptors. When your PG has the ball taken out of his hands 3 years in a row (McConnell, Butler, Milton), I would think that's a problem. It means that with Simmons and Embiid, you still don't have a PG. You still don't have someone who can run the pick and roll or penetrate the offense in a half court set. And that's kind of a big deal. It means you can trot out the best starting lineup in the NBA by +/- and still get hit with a gentleman's sweep in the 2nd round. And if you can't sign that perimeter star in FA (Lebron, Kawhi, PG), draft that star (Fultz), or trade for and convince that star to stay (Butler), then you are kind of screwed. And obviously it doesn't help when the FO signs players who make those problems worse.

Or just the team we had last year.

The idea was always to get another star. They had one last year, they're paying two other guys like they are stars now. Instead they put together a team that, as you said, just exacerbates the issues.

Yeah and unfortunately without that third star, I don't think the Sixers will win a championship. It seems like everyone agrees what the problems are (spacing, pick and roll, dribble penetration), but the disagreements surface when we talk about what to do about it. There are basically three scenarios that get thrown around:

1) Trade Simmons
2) Trade Embiid
3) Keep both and find better complementary pieces

I think option 3 is the safest bet. You can find some combination of players to create a modified version of the '18 team with Redick, Covington, and Saric. However, you still run into issues if you can't find a traditional PG to run the half court offense. And that traditional PG should also have great spacing ability. What I just described is typically a star player in the NBA - hence the problem.

I am more interested in option 1. My hope is that the Sixers can target a player who, with the right coach, will blossom into an even better player. A scenario like what happened with Nash, Harden, Oladipo, Lowry, etc. The players I'd look at are Murray and LaVine. This option is definitely riskier, but I have held a championship or bust mindset since the beginning.

Yeah to be clear I'm not saying there's an obvious solution here. And yeah the best case is finding someone that blossoms later in their career. They thought they had someone like that in Harris and it hasn't really turned out.

[Magic beans]

Or just the team we had last year.

The idea was always to get another star. They had one last year, they're paying two other guys like they are stars now. Instead they put together a team that, as you said, just exacerbates the issues.

Yeah and unfortunately without that third star, I don't think the Sixers will win a championship. It seems like everyone agrees what the problems are (spacing, pick and roll, dribble penetration), but the disagreements surface when we talk about what to do about it. There are basically three scenarios that get thrown around:

1) Trade Simmons
2) Trade Embiid
3) Keep both and find better complementary pieces

I think option 3 is the safest bet. You can find some combination of players to create a modified version of the '18 team with Redick, Covington, and Saric. However, you still run into issues if you can't find a traditional PG to run the half court offense. And that traditional PG should also have great spacing ability. What I just described is typically a star player in the NBA - hence the problem.

I am more interested in option 1. My hope is that the Sixers can target a player who, with the right coach, will blossom into an even better player. A scenario like what happened with Nash, Harden, Oladipo, Lowry, etc. The players I'd look at are Murray and LaVine. This option is definitely riskier, but I have held a championship or bust mindset since the beginning.

Yeah to be clear I'm not saying there's an obvious solution here. And yeah the best case is finding someone that blossoms later in their career. They thought they had someone like that in Harris and it hasn't really turned out.

I’m against moving Ben and Jo right now. We would not get equal value at this point in time. Hopefully under new coaching staff both can develop and be used more effectively and in line with the way the game is now played.
New ideas are needed along with a cohesive supporting cast.

[kio80]

We dont need stars for them. Ben isnt a star other than by name alone.

You guys dont think we can go to chicago and offer them ben simmons for lavine, markannen, and picks? Markennen is the perfect fit next to Embiid and super undervalued right now. There are deals like this available. Say what you want about lavine but the dude can score and shoot it. He's been on a losing team always, put him on a winning team with a good coach who can teach him winning basketball and effort on D and he ends up being a better player than simmons in the long run.

There are plenty of deals to be made where we can get value for simmons. People have to stop looking at simmons as some untouchable top 10 player, because he isnt even close to that.

LOL


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[kio80]

well I certainly agree the front office has been a royal joke, but I disagree they can work together unless the goal is just making the playoffs each year.

Our best squad was last year, and even then they had to hide simmons on offense the entire time. He sat in the dunkers spot and made things worse on the other 4 on the floor.

That isnt going to change moving him to PF, it just puts the ball in the hands of someone more able to create off the dribble, but doesnt fix the issues of him being a waste of space on offense and clogging up Embiid's area of dominance.

So I still maintain they do not, and will not work together if the goal is winning a championship. We will never win a championship with both of those 2 on the roster together

And yet they were dominant in the minutes those two were on the court and were two points from beating the team that won the title.

They had 4 years, and all the cap space and assets in the world to cover for Simmons' obvious weaknesses in a way that you can take advantage of his obvious strengths, and this is what we got.

wait, now you are again attributing simmons to those dominant minutes together. No, it was embiid that was responsible for those dominant minutes. Take any starter and see what their plus was with embiid as a duo..

ben simmons was our 5th best starter on that team last year on offense. And he's getting paid max money now. We had to HIDE him in the playoffs. We had to take the ball OUT of his hands. That is who you are comfortable saying we should build around with embiid moving forward?

I just dont know when people are going to stop lying to themselves. I honestly think Ben Simmons was a better player as a rookie than he is now

Hehe, the hate on simmons is too obvious. No one is gonna take you seriously, I LOL everytime you post, thanks for the entertainment.
You not ever gonna get your wish, FO will never trade Ben haha


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[Magic beans]

And yet they were dominant in the minutes those two were on the court and were two points from beating the team that won the title.

They had 4 years, and all the cap space and assets in the world to cover for Simmons' obvious weaknesses in a way that you can take advantage of his obvious strengths, and this is what we got.

wait, now you are again attributing simmons to those dominant minutes together. No, it was embiid that was responsible for those dominant minutes. Take any starter and see what their plus was with embiid as a duo..

ben simmons was our 5th best starter on that team last year on offense. And he's getting paid max money now. We had to HIDE him in the playoffs. We had to take the ball OUT of his hands. That is who you are comfortable saying we should build around with embiid moving forward?

I just dont know when people are going to stop lying to themselves. I honestly think Ben Simmons was a better player as a rookie than he is now

Hehe, the hate on simmons is too obvious. No one is gonna take you seriously, I LOL everytime you post, thanks for the entertainment.
You not ever gonna get your wish, FO will never trade Ben haha


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Embiid gets moved before Ben. Ben has his flaws as we are all aware but if for nothing else he’s more relevant to the way of the modern NBA era. Also more versatility, perennial DPOY candidate, positional size advantage, rebounding etc

If only he would let if fly more??!!? Hopefully a new coaching regime remedies this for us all. Prays at night time...

[kio80]

wait, now you are again attributing simmons to those dominant minutes together. No, it was embiid that was responsible for those dominant minutes. Take any starter and see what their plus was with embiid as a duo..

ben simmons was our 5th best starter on that team last year on offense. And he's getting paid max money now. We had to HIDE him in the playoffs. We had to take the ball OUT of his hands. That is who you are comfortable saying we should build around with embiid moving forward?

I just dont know when people are going to stop lying to themselves. I honestly think Ben Simmons was a better player as a rookie than he is now

Hehe, the hate on simmons is too obvious. No one is gonna take you seriously, I LOL everytime you post, thanks for the entertainment.
You not ever gonna get your wish, FO will never trade Ben haha


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Embiid gets moved before Ben. Ben has his flaws as we are all aware but if for nothing else he’s more relevant to the way of the modern NBA era. Also more versatility, perennial DPOY candidate, positional size advantage, rebounding etc

If only he would let if fly more??!!? Hopefully a new coaching regime remedies this for us all. Prays at night time...

Yea hopefully a new coach will straighten up his mindset.

I am all for keeping both but if one has to go, I am pretty sure the front office will go with trading Embiid.
Agree with all the pros you listed regarding Simmons, and also Ben is a bigger money tree for the organization, he has a big following even outside of the NBA.
No matter how much some certain raw ignorant kid screams and kicks, Simmons is not getting traded.


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[Magic beans]

Hehe, the hate on simmons is too obvious. No one is gonna take you seriously, I LOL everytime you post, thanks for the entertainment.
You not ever gonna get your wish, FO will never trade Ben haha


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Embiid gets moved before Ben. Ben has his flaws as we are all aware but if for nothing else he’s more relevant to the way of the modern NBA era. Also more versatility, perennial DPOY candidate, positional size advantage, rebounding etc

If only he would let if fly more??!!? Hopefully a new coaching regime remedies this for us all. Prays at night time...

Yea hopefully a new coach will straighten up his mindset.

I am all for keeping both but if one has to go, I am pretty sure the front office will go with trading Embiid.
Agree with all the pros you listed regarding Simmons, and also Ben is a bigger money tree for the organization, he has a big following even outside of the NBA.
No matter how much some certain raw ignorant kid screams and kicks, Simmons is not getting traded.


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Haha... as per Brand he’s not moving either.

https://www.essentiallysports.com/nba-news-i-owe-it-to-this-city-philadelphia-76ers-gm-makes-a-promise-to-fans-after-nba-playoffs-snub/

[sodmoraes]

Ingram won the MIP award and im wondering here if Simmons is the most unimproved player in the NBA... He´s a better defender, but you can actually argue that he´s a worst shooter now, comparing to his rookie year. In his rookie year he shot a lot of mid range jumpers that he doesnt shoot anymore, kinda sad...

[kio80]

Ingram won the MIP award and im wondering here if Simmons is the most unimproved player in the NBA... He´s a better defender, but you can actually argue that he´s a worst shooter now, comparing to his rookie year. In his rookie year he shot a lot of mid range jumpers that he doesnt shoot anymore, kinda sad...

Shooting wise yea, he really needs to put his acts together and really fix his shooting issues.
I think it’s really a mental thing, his form looks a lot better now than before but he has to set his mind the right place. Hope the sport Psychiatrist thing works out for him


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[Magic beans]

Ingram won the MIP award and im wondering here if Simmons is the most unimproved player in the NBA... He´s a better defender, but you can actually argue that he´s a worst shooter now, comparing to his rookie year. In his rookie year he shot a lot of mid range jumpers that he doesnt shoot anymore, kinda sad...

Shooting wise yea, he really needs to put his acts together and really fix his shooting issues.
I think it’s really a mental thing, his form looks a lot better now than before but he has to set his mind the right place. Hope the sport Psychiatrist thing works out for him


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Getting inside Bens head and convincing him to let that jumper fly has to be seen as top priority this off season. Even the most loyal Ben advocates will turn and start seeking fantasy trade scenarios lol

[76ciology]

Drives

Read on Twitter

[Magic beans]

Drives

Read on Twitter

Wow, these metrics really surprised me with some players.

Just posted in another thread comparison between Beal and Lavine. Would never have believed Beal drives to the rack more...

[76ciology]

Drives

Read on Twitter

Wow, these metrics really surprised me with some players.

Just posted in another thread comparison between Beal and Lavine. Would never have believed Beal drives to the rack more...

1.) Ben and Tobias have same number of drives
2.) Celts got a good balanced of drives with Kemba, Jaylen and Tatum.
3.) Beal drives a lot which removes any doubt of him not being able to be primary offensive scorer
4.) Kobble has a 90% chance that he is Zach Lavine himself or his brother

[phillynative]

Somewhere here was saying Tatum doesnt drive the ball. But we see here he drives the ball more than anyone on our team including Ben. He has turned himself into a legit 3 level player.

[VDT]

Drives

Read on Twitter

It has the number of drives per 100 touches which is a weird metric. Is bringing the ball up the court considered a touch? If yes then the main ballhandlers should have less drives.

Are transition baskets considered a drive? This would also skew the results. Are the long range floaters also considered a drive?

We need to know these things before we draw any conclusions.

[elchengue20]

Beal is really really good, he has all the tools to score the ball.

He can be the 1st option on a serious offense without a doubt. Being 1B or 1A next to a player like a Embiid would be perfect for him. The fact he averaged 30/6 on good efficency and was able to win some games with abosolutely garbage teamates in Washington was a great achievement.

Also, he's 27, so he's just entering his prime. He's the best player we could reallisticy get this offseason.

[Arsenal]

Beal is really really good, he has all the tools to score the ball.

He can be the 1st option on a serious offense without a doubt. Being 1B or 1A next to a player like a Embiid would be perfect for him. The fact he averaged 30/6 on good efficency and was able to win some games with abosolutely garbage teamates in Washington was a great achievement.

Also, he's 27, so he's just entering his prime. He's the best player we could reallisticy get this offseason.

I don't think we can get him anymore without trading Simmons or Embiid himself.

That ship has sailed while we were going ALL-IN on stars like Al Horford and Tobias Harris.