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ET Da Gawd wrote:Send Noel, we aint paying 16+ mill a year for a substandard offensive player when we have Jahlil on a rookie contract.
sixers4real wrote:spikeslovechild wrote:sixers4real wrote:
Well, I'll go I little off topic with you.
To figure out Sixers cap and Noel contract situation.
If BC is smart enough not to waste our money this summer.
And does things like that:
Okafor + 24 + 26 for Dunn + combo guard (Knight/Smart/Bradley) - I'll dream it's Knight
MAX FA at SG - Barnes, Fournier, DeRozan (I'll dream its Fournier)
2016/17 (mil)
C-Embiid(4,8)/Noel(4,4)/Holmes(1)
PF-Simmons(6)/Saric(2,4)/Landry(6,8)
SF-Covington(1)/Grant(1)/Thompson(1)
SG-Fournier(20)/Knight(13)/Stauskas(3)
PG-Dunn(4)/Knight/McConnell(1)
total of 70 mil with cap about 90 mil.
thats 27-30 team win. Good for top 5 draft pick.
Next year the only FA we resign is Noel. 5 years (90 mil)
Let go Landry, Thompson, Stauskas.
Draft Jackson or Tatum (dream SF for that team)
2017/18:
C-Embiid(6)/Noel(18)/Holmes(1)
PF-Simmons(6,5)/Saric(3)
SF-Tatum(5,5)/Covington(1)/Grant(1)
SG-Fournier(21)/Knight(14)
PG-Dunn(5)/Knight/McConnell(1)
total of 83 + 10 mil for some vet = 93 mil with cap of 108 mil
Summer 2018, only 3 free agent of that roster are:
Embiid (max), Roco and Grant (keep em if the price is right), get somebody like them if not.
Basically playing 2018/19 as a good playoff team and still under cap.
My point is keep Noel, we need him and we can sign him next summer to a contract like 90mil/5 years.
His rim protecting, energy of the bench will be amazing. Embiid will miss some games, and he will be in foul trouble some games.
I'm all for keeping Noel and trading Okafor.
Why would you trade Okafor who is on the second year of his rookie deal and sign Noel to a 5 year 90 million dollar extension? When you don't even know if you have a starting spot in your lineup for him moving forward.
What we need to do is move Noel for a comparable young player who can solve a position of need. It's going to be hard to get equal value for him this is where BC needs to put on his big boy pants and work to find a deal. He needs to be working with PHX to see if they are interested in moving one of their guards or the 4th overall pick for him. Maybe, you call up MIL and see if they are looking to put a defensive center next to Monroe. Maybe, you call up the Lakers and say look will you accept Russell for Noel. You call up the bulls and say with Gasol and Noah walking would you be willing to accept a package centered around Noel for Butler.
Because Okafor makes NO SENSE with Embiid and Simmons. And he's got more value than Noel right now. How much playing time you got for Okafor if Embiid is healthy, Simmons is #1, and Saric comes over?
spikeslovechild wrote:sixers4real wrote:spikeslovechild wrote:
Why would you trade Okafor who is on the second year of his rookie deal and sign Noel to a 5 year 90 million dollar extension? When you don't even know if you have a starting spot in your lineup for him moving forward.
What we need to do is move Noel for a comparable young player who can solve a position of need. It's going to be hard to get equal value for him this is where BC needs to put on his big boy pants and work to find a deal. He needs to be working with PHX to see if they are interested in moving one of their guards or the 4th overall pick for him. Maybe, you call up MIL and see if they are looking to put a defensive center next to Monroe. Maybe, you call up the Lakers and say look will you accept Russell for Noel. You call up the bulls and say with Gasol and Noah walking would you be willing to accept a package centered around Noel for Butler.
Because Okafor makes NO SENSE with Embiid and Simmons. And he's got more value than Noel right now. How much playing time you got for Okafor if Embiid is healthy, Simmons is #1, and Saric comes over?
Okafor is the starting PF. You move Simmons to SF. It actually pretty much is totally dependent on whether Simmons is willing to put the work in and transition back to being a SF (remember he has a SF going into college).
If everything goes well you basically have Simmons guarding SF on defense and running the point on offense.
It would look something along the lines of:
C: Embiid
PF: Okafor
SF: Simmons
SG: Beal
SG: Middleton
Then two SG. I choose Beal and Middleton because those are the two players I would like to go after but you could as I said in another thread try to design a package around Noel to get you Butler or Russell or if you want a secondary ball handler Knight/Bledsoe on PHX.
One of the biggest misnomers out there is that Okafor is this back to the basket player who can only score inside. He's developed his mid range game. He's not going to be clogging the lanes with Embiid. The question is can Simmons work at SF. I'm of the opinion he could after all he's played SF most of his career. Really it's upto him whether or not he is willing to put in the work in.
ET Da Gawd wrote:Okafor is a gotdamn PF/C he can play either, F stretch 4s, if they wanna chuck 3s, Okafor will punish them on the opposite end. Theres 2 sides to basketball incase some of yall forgot
spikeslovechild wrote:ET Da Gawd wrote:Okafor is a gotdamn PF/C he can play either, F stretch 4s, if they wanna chuck 3s, Okafor will punish them on the opposite end. Theres 2 sides to basketball incase some of yall forgot
Agreed some people just want to fit a square peg in a round hole. We don't have the lineup of a GSW we have to play our game.
We saw Thunder give them problems using their length to clog the passing lanes and distract their three point shooters. Also punish them on glass. We can follow the same formula or a different one. There are many ways to skin a cat. There is no such thing as todays NBA. There are trends. I prefer not to get caught up in the trends and build the best lineup.
Before the GSW the Lakers won back to back championships with Bynum and Gasol. Personally, I'm fine with the Warriors taking the ball out of Curry and Klays hand and having Iggy and Green jack up three. Take them all day long even if you are going against Okafor, Simmons, or Embiid.
Let our big men punish them on the glass and let our best players have those extra possessions. I mean that what I would do but who the f cares. We aren't even close to the warriors right now. Who knows what their team will look like when we are ready to contend.
Unbreakable99 wrote:Let's say we did roll out a starting 5 next year of
Lin
Stauskas
Simmons
Okafor
Embiid
I mean how effective offensively do you think this team could be? Does anyone see any fluidity in the offense? Could we punish teams inside and make up for the lack of outside shooting?
Who would take most of the shots? Would it be Okakor? Simmons needs to shoot and Embiid needs his touches. How would teams play us defensively? Would we be in the top half of bottom half in effective fg %? Would we be in the top half of bottom half in points scored per game? I'm indifferent on Okafor. He has a great skillset offensively but he needs the ball. A part of me is intrigued by how he could play with this group but my head says this would be a bad fit offensively and defensively.
Sportfan73 wrote:Unbreakable99 wrote:Let's say we did roll out a starting 5 next year of
Lin
Stauskas
Simmons
Okafor
Embiid
I mean how effective offensively do you think this team could be? Does anyone see any fluidity in the offense? Could we punish teams inside and make up for the lack of outside shooting?
Who would take most of the shots? Would it be Okakor? Simmons needs to shoot and Embiid needs his touches. How would teams play us defensively? Would we be in the top half of bottom half in effective fg %? Would we be in the top half of bottom half in points scored per game? I'm indifferent on Okafor. He has a great skillset offensively but he needs the ball. A part of me is intrigued by how he could play with this group but my head says this would be a bad fit offensively and defensively.
I think if Okafor stays it has to be at the center position with Simmons playing 3 and an Ibaka type on the floor at 4. Bender fits the mold.
Unbreakable99 wrote:Let's say we did roll out a starting 5 next year of
Lin
Stauskas
Simmons
Okafor
Embiid
I mean how effective offensively do you think this team could be? Does anyone see any fluidity in the offense? Could we punish teams inside and make up for the lack of outside shooting?
Who would take most of the shots? Would it be Okakor? Simmons needs to shoot and Embiid needs his touches. How would teams play us defensively? Would we be in the top half of bottom half in effective fg %? Would we be in the top half of bottom half in points scored per game? I'm indifferent on Okafor. He has a great skillset offensively but he needs the ball. A part of me is intrigued by how he could play with this group but my head says this would be a bad fit offensively and defensively.
Easymoney wrote:Unbreakable99 wrote:Let's say we did roll out a starting 5 next year of
Lin
Stauskas
Simmons
Okafor
Embiid
I mean how effective offensively do you think this team could be? Does anyone see any fluidity in the offense? Could we punish teams inside and make up for the lack of outside shooting?
Who would take most of the shots? Would it be Okakor? Simmons needs to shoot and Embiid needs his touches. How would teams play us defensively? Would we be in the top half of bottom half in effective fg %? Would we be in the top half of bottom half in points scored per game? I'm indifferent on Okafor. He has a great skillset offensively but he needs the ball. A part of me is intrigued by how he could play with this group but my head says this would be a bad fit offensively and defensively.
Sigh......are we competing next year?
It would only take 2 guys at the 1 & 2 who can shoot to make that lineup work.We have the picks and assets moving forward to make it happen. People also ignore the fact Embiid can shoot and that Okafor is developing a respectable midrange game.
I honestly believe that Sixer fans who want to get Okafor out of here are clouded by their bias towards Simmons. Are you guys scared that Jah may overshadow Ben next year or something?
Easymoney wrote:I honestly believe that Sixer fans who want to get Okafor out of here are clouded by their bias towards Simmons. Are you guys scared that Jah may overshadow Ben next year or something?
Easymoney wrote:Why are you so willing to hand the keys to Simmons and prematurely build around him when he hasn't proved anything at this level yet? I understand the logic behind drafting him, but this year should be about evaluation. It should be about 1. seeing if these guys can gel together and 2. figuring out who the keepers really are if it doesn't work. With our upcoming picks, assets, and cap space it makes no sense to pull the trigger on one of our best prospects.
btw- I don't think the lineup you posted is efficient. However, I do think the lineup I posted with shooters can be very efficient on offense.
The length is outstanding and that team is built to inflate Simmon's assist numbers.
howiezbt wrote:If you draft Simmons and keep Okafor, then what you really need is a PG who can shoot (like the Heat had with Chalmers as an example). You don't need a PG to run the offense because it will go through Okafor and Simmons, with hopefully Embiid.
A guy like Canaan would be tailor made for it, but we saw he can't defend. The PG has be a defensive player to set up Okafor for blocks and be able to calm down the team.
Other guys I kind of like in that role we could acquire are in no particular order: Trey Burke, Eric Gordon, George Hill, and Avery Bradley
Noel and #24
for
#5 and Bradley?
Take Hield at #5
Bradley
Hield
Okafor
Simmons
Covington
Embiid comes off the bench to play 20 minutes per game in his first year.
I like that team
Ericb5 wrote:Easymoney wrote:Why are you so willing to hand the keys to Simmons and prematurely build around him when he hasn't proved anything at this level yet? I understand the logic behind drafting him, but this year should be about evaluation. It should be about 1. seeing if these guys can gel together and 2. figuring out who the keepers really are if it doesn't work. With our upcoming picks, assets, and cap space it makes no sense to pull the trigger on one of our best prospects.
btw- I don't think the lineup you posted is efficient. However, I do think the lineup I posted with shooters can be very efficient on offense.
The length is outstanding and that team is built to inflate Simmon's assist numbers.
The problem is that Okafor already has one foot out the door anyway due to Embiid being a better player, and Noel having limitations that make him unable to play next to Okafor.
So Okafor is a 50-50 proposition anyway if he is going to be on the Sixers. Then you add a better player in Simmons that further complicates Okafor's position.
I am a huge Okafor fan in terms of his long term potential, but I think Simmons and Embiid are both better prospects, and Okafor can bring back a lot in trade, AND we have absolutely putrid backcourt talent, and the writing is just on the wall.
Easymoney wrote:Ericb5 wrote:Easymoney wrote:Why are you so willing to hand the keys to Simmons and prematurely build around him when he hasn't proved anything at this level yet? I understand the logic behind drafting him, but this year should be about evaluation. It should be about 1. seeing if these guys can gel together and 2. figuring out who the keepers really are if it doesn't work. With our upcoming picks, assets, and cap space it makes no sense to pull the trigger on one of our best prospects.
btw- I don't think the lineup you posted is efficient. However, I do think the lineup I posted with shooters can be very efficient on offense.
The length is outstanding and that team is built to inflate Simmon's assist numbers.
The problem is that Okafor already has one foot out the door anyway due to Embiid being a better player, and Noel having limitations that make him unable to play next to Okafor.
So Okafor is a 50-50 proposition anyway if he is going to be on the Sixers. Then you add a better player in Simmons that further complicates Okafor's position.
I am a huge Okafor fan in terms of his long term potential, but I think Simmons and Embiid are both better prospects, and Okafor can bring back a lot in trade, AND we have absolutely putrid backcourt talent, and the writing is just on the wall.
That's the point- you THINK that Simmons and Embiid are better prospects. How can you be so sure without getting more data? Are you willing to make a major change like this simply on an unproven assumption? That's such a reckless thing to do.
Embiid hasn't played at a high level in 3 years and he has injury issues. I'm rooting for Joel, but he's not out of the woods yet.
Simmons hasn't played one minute in the NBA, yet we already have a mandate to begin building around him? Once again, I get why people want to draft Ben and a genuinely believe he has good potential, but he has his flaws too. He's also not guaranteed to be a better player than Jah, contrary to popular opinion around here.
Why are you so obsessed with fixing our backcourt this year when we have multiple picks in a deep guard draft next year? That line of thinking doesn't make sense. This year should be about evaluation, let the guys earn their spot and figure out which players work best together.