Joel Embiid -- The Process is now Live

[Ericb5]

Saw an article by Kurt Helin today that was complimentary of Embiid, but there was a line in it that said something like "he's still raw, he moves really stiffly and he needs work on his jumper" and that was the second time I heard a national guy say that. I'm like do these guys even watch Embiid play or are they just regurgitating false information?

Two of Embiid's greatest strengths are his fluidity and his jumper. The dude is shooting 40% from 3 for a 7'2 big man. I mean, c'mon.

The national guys are so uninformed on Embiid at this point. We need another month or so for them to catch up I think.

Just about everyday since he was drafted I do a google news search for "Embiid" and see what is out there. The information quality of the stories written about him are usually pretty bad.

All they know is that he is tall, he was hurt for 2 years, and is funny on Twitter, and some of them know about his workout videos.

I think when he is 10 games into the season when people start to post his per 36 numbers, and realize that they are as good as Hakeem's were at the same age, people will start noticing, and hopefully looking a bit deeper.


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[NBA Moses]

:noway:

And there are still guys on this board trying to say the Lakers gave the the 76ers a gift by selecting Russell over Okafor. SMH.

Russell has been below average so far this season. Scoring 16.6 per game with a TS% of 47.5 ( 36.7% fg, 32.3% 3pg) and 4.8asts/3.2tovs
Not a great pg you want to build with.

Hmmm, instead we selected a mediocre Center you can't build with.

Before Okafors injury last year he looked like the far superior player in comparison to Dangelo Russell imo. Not even close. Since the injury Okafor is scaring the beejesus out of me. Looks like a shell of his former self.

[NBA Moses]

[

The national guys are so uninformed on Embiid at this point. We need another month or so for them to catch up I think.

The national skeptism is fairly accurate imo . Look Embiid has a ton of rust to work off and he will. Embiid does look gassed and uncoordinated at times and thats to be expected at this very early stage in his recovery.

[Kolkmania]

What makes no sense? He was better than Okafor last year, and even with the numbers you quoted, he's been better than Okafor this year. He was great in the preseason as well on high usage (part of present performance).

He was not better last year and is not better this year either considering the different role they play and preseason means nothing.

Yeah we're just going to have to agree to disagree then.

RPM (arguably the best advanced stat)
Russell: -3.66, 60th out of 71 qualified PGs
Okafor: -5.28, 59th out of 59 qualified Cs

On/off points per 100 possessions split (per nbawowy)
Russell: -4.6
Okafor: -10.0

BPM
Russell: -1.8
Okafor: -4.1

VORP
Russell: 0.1
Okafor: -0.8

They both had miserable situations and awful surrounding players. They were similar age (Russell was 3 months younger). Don't bother citing PER - it's an awful stat that doesn't value defense and intangibles and rewards empty scorers. Russell, while not great, was better when considering useful advanced metrics.

If numbers aren't enough for you, consider that the NBA Rank that you quoted has Okafor at rank 146 and Russell at rank 62. If people truly thought Okafor had the better year, they would be a lot closer given that they're similar age and similar draft position.

I would give up Okafor and the Lakers pick for Russell in a heartbeat and I'd be shocked if the Lakers would even consider it.

That's crazy.

I don't think it's close who had the better year, think both prospects are flawed defensively but you can hide a guard easier than a center. However, I'm still not convinced of Russell as a point guard. He's not the natural playmaker that creates for other people, lacks quickness and his limited athletic abilities gives him troubles at the rim. He's extremely streaky as well (no surprise given his age). The potential of the Lakers pick alone is close to Russell's value in my opinion.

But the great thing is, every asset we obtain from Okafor or Noel is an addition to a core existing of Embiid and Simmons. Those two are the main pieces. I hope to see some dedication from Embiid in setting picks and rolling towards the basket in the next games. Try to get a diverse shot selection instead of the ISO post-up plays.

[LloydFree]

He was not better last year and is not better this year either considering the different role they play and preseason means nothing.

Yeah we're just going to have to agree to disagree then.

RPM (arguably the best advanced stat)
Russell: -3.66, 60th out of 71 qualified PGs
Okafor: -5.28, 59th out of 59 qualified Cs

On/off points per 100 possessions split (per nbawowy)
Russell: -4.6
Okafor: -10.0

BPM
Russell: -1.8
Okafor: -4.1

VORP
Russell: 0.1
Okafor: -0.8

They both had miserable situations and awful surrounding players. They were similar age (Russell was 3 months younger). Don't bother citing PER - it's an awful stat that doesn't value defense and intangibles and rewards empty scorers. Russell, while not great, was better when considering useful advanced metrics.

If numbers aren't enough for you, consider that the NBA Rank that you quoted has Okafor at rank 146 and Russell at rank 62. If people truly thought Okafor had the better year, they would be a lot closer given that they're similar age and similar draft position.

I would give up Okafor and the Lakers pick for Russell in a heartbeat and I'd be shocked if the Lakers would even consider it.

That's crazy.

No it isn't. Okafor doesn't have close to the value that Russell has around the league. Okafor has no value. I seriously doubt the Lakers would take Okafor and their pick for Russell. They're happy with Russell. They're not going to get any body that is any better in the draft, and Okafor isn't worth the difference.

[CoreyGallagher]

No it isn't. Okafor doesn't have close to the value that Russell has around the league. Okafor has no value. I seriously doubt the Lakers would take Okafor and their pick for Russell. They're happy with Russell. They're not going to get any body that is any better in the draft, and Okafor isn't worth the difference.

Can valuate Okafor however you like, but if this draft lives up to expectations than they very well could be. I still expect the Lakers to finish towards the bottom, if their pick conveys 4th to 6th than there are high potential prospects available there.

[Kolkmania]

Yeah we're just going to have to agree to disagree then.

RPM (arguably the best advanced stat)
Russell: -3.66, 60th out of 71 qualified PGs
Okafor: -5.28, 59th out of 59 qualified Cs

On/off points per 100 possessions split (per nbawowy)
Russell: -4.6
Okafor: -10.0

BPM
Russell: -1.8
Okafor: -4.1

VORP
Russell: 0.1
Okafor: -0.8

They both had miserable situations and awful surrounding players. They were similar age (Russell was 3 months younger). Don't bother citing PER - it's an awful stat that doesn't value defense and intangibles and rewards empty scorers. Russell, while not great, was better when considering useful advanced metrics.

If numbers aren't enough for you, consider that the NBA Rank that you quoted has Okafor at rank 146 and Russell at rank 62. If people truly thought Okafor had the better year, they would be a lot closer given that they're similar age and similar draft position.

I would give up Okafor and the Lakers pick for Russell in a heartbeat and I'd be shocked if the Lakers would even consider it.

That's crazy.

No it isn't. Okafor doesn't have close to the value that Russell has around the league. Okafor has no value. I seriously doubt the Lakers would take Okafor and their pick for Russell. They're happy with Russell. They're not going to get any body that is any better in the draft, and Okafor isn't worth the difference.

Well Pacers payed Al Jefferson to produce points from the bench, so I won't say Okafor has no value at all after one rookie year showing similar skills.

If the pick lands in the top 6/7, there is a serious chance a better player is available than D'Angelo Russell. I'm not saying the Lakers would do it, but if I'm the Sixers GM I wouldn't do it for sure.

[CoreyGallagher]

Well, getting back to Embiid, he currently ranks 3rd in the NBA in blocks per game with 2.7, he trails only Anthony Davis and Hassan Whiteside. However, Embiid is only playing 21 mpg, they're playing 37 and 30, respectively.

[Ericb5]

[

The national guys are so uninformed on Embiid at this point. We need another month or so for them to catch up I think.

The national skeptism is fairly accurate imo . Look Embiid has a ton of rust to work off and he will. Embiid does look gassed and uncoordinated at times and thats to be expected at this very early stage in his recovery.

It's not the skepticism. It's the ignorance.

The articles are riddled with inaccuracies and I think it is because of laziness. They aren't paying attention close enough.

Embiid is rusty still, but he is improving rapidly and has been the best player on the floor in every game he has played outside of Westbrook.


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[LloydFree]

That's crazy.

No it isn't. Okafor doesn't have close to the value that Russell has around the league. Okafor has no value. I seriously doubt the Lakers would take Okafor and their pick for Russell. They're happy with Russell. They're not going to get any body that is any better in the draft, and Okafor isn't worth the difference.

Well Pacers payed Al Jefferson to produce points from the bench, so I won't say Okafor has no value at all after one rookie year showing similar skills.

If the pick lands in the top 6/7, there is a serious chance a better player is available than D'Angelo Russell. I'm not saying the Lakers would do it, but if I'm the Sixers GM I wouldn't do it for sure.

You said it... Bench. The Pacers didn't pay Al Jefferson anything. In this day and age, a 3 year 10mil per contract is a mid-level salary exemption player. Nobody is paying for that kind of player anymore and their surely not trading anything valuable for that. That's why both Utah and Charlotte had to let Jefferson walk for no compensation these last few seasons. What Okafor or Jefferson offer, isn't valuable.

And people crack me up when they start parroting pre-draft hyperbole about classes before they start playing. People talking like there are going to be 4-5 All-star guards available in this draft, that are better than D'angelo Russell, is a joke. I remember in 2014, the same guys saying this nonsense, said "we HAVE to take Wiggins or Exum over Joel Embiid because the 2015 draft was loaded with Bigs" and we can surely get a player as good as Embiid in that draft. Nonsense.

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

Well, getting back to Embiid, he currently ranks 3rd in the NBA in blocks per game with 2.7, he trails only Anthony Davis and Hassan Whiteside. However, Embiid is only playing 21 mpg, they're playing 37 and 30, respectively.

Good find, I can't believe he's doing that in such limited playing time. I'm on board with the minutes restriction for now. Seems to be the best approach. Kid is gonna be beastly once the chains come off.

[CoreyGallagher]

And people crack me up when they start parroting pre-draft hyperbole about classes before they start playing. People talking like there are going to be 4-5 All-star guards available in this draft, that are better than D'angelo Russell, is a joke. I remember in 2014, the same guys saying this nonsense, said "we HAVE to take Wiggins or Exum over Joel Embiid because the 2015 draft was loaded with Bigs" and we can surely get a player as good as Embiid in that draft. Nonsense.

I simply left the possibility open that there could be, you dismissed it entirely...

[eagereyez]

No it isn't. Okafor doesn't have close to the value that Russell has around the league. Okafor has no value. I seriously doubt the Lakers would take Okafor and their pick for Russell. They're happy with Russell. They're not going to get any body that is any better in the draft, and Okafor isn't worth the difference.

Well Pacers payed Al Jefferson to produce points from the bench, so I won't say Okafor has no value at all after one rookie year showing similar skills.

If the pick lands in the top 6/7, there is a serious chance a better player is available than D'Angelo Russell. I'm not saying the Lakers would do it, but if I'm the Sixers GM I wouldn't do it for sure.

You said it... Bench. The Pacers didn't pay Al Jefferson anything. In this day and age, a 3 year 10mil per contract is a mid-level salary exemption player. Nobody is paying for that kind of player anymore and their surely not trading anything valuable for that. That's why both Utah and Charlotte had to let Jefferson walk for no compensation these last few seasons. What Okafor or Jefferson offers, isn't valuable.

And people crack me up when they start parroting pre-draft hyperbole about classes before they start playing. People talking like there are going to be 4-5 All-star guards available in this draft, that are better than D'angelo Russell, is a joke. I remember in 2014, the same guys saying this nonsense, said "we HAVE to take Wiggins or Exum over Joel Embiid because the 2015 draft was loaded with Bigs" and we can surely get a player as good as Embiid in that draft. Nonsense.

Wasn't Okafor the consensus #1 pick heading into 2015? Imagine if those people got their way, and the Sixers drafted Exum to be paired with Okafor. What a massive mistake that would have been.

[Ericb5]

The point about the draft next year isn't that there are going to be 5 all stars. It is that there are going to be 5 or so star level prospects in the draft.

As it stands today, it looks like there will be 4-5 guys on the Ingram level or better, and all of them are better than Russell was as a prospect.

The Okafor Russell debate will go on forever, but it is way to early to say who is better. Okafor hasn't even been full strength in an nba game since January, and in January he was killing it.

If Russell is able to play the 2 full time then his value goes up because he isn't a point guard.

BTW, neither one of them are difference makers.

[thenbaman]

Russell is a team cancer don't want any part of him with the sixers
oak is a way better player and you will all see that when he rounds back
into game shape.

[Unbreakable99]

Russell is a team cancer don't want any part of him with the sixers
oak is a way better player and you will all see that when he rounds back
into game shape.

Incorrect. Even if Okafor were better (spoiler: he's not) he wouldn't be way better. But he's not better anyway. I'd take Russell in a heartbeat. Right now if just trade Okafor to Boston for Smart but I doubt the Celtics do that.

[LloydFree]

The point about the draft next year isn't that there are going to be 5 all stars. It is that there are going to be 5 or so star level prospects in the draft.

As it stands today, it looks like there will be 4-5 guys on the Ingram level or better, and all of them are better than Russell was as a prospect.

The Okafor Russell debate will go on forever, but it is way to early to say who is better. Okafor hasn't even been full strength in an nba game since January, and in January he was killing it.

If Russell is able to play the 2 full time then his value goes up because he isn't a point guard.

Every bit of this post is ridiculous.

There is no Okafor-Russel debate. No GM in their right mind in the NBA views Okafor anywhere close to the level prospect that D'angelo Russell is, current or future. If he was anywhere close, Colangelo would have traded him for something by now.

And anybody who thinks there are 4-5 guards in the top of this draft, better than Russel, doesn't have a clue about judging talent or understanding of yearly talent distribution in the draft in general.

[sixerswillrule]

The Pacers didn't pay Al Jefferson anything. In this day and age, a 3 year 10mil per contract is a mid-level salary exemption player. Nobody is paying for that kind of player anymore and their surely not trading anything valuable for that. That's why both Utah and Charlotte had to let Jefferson walk for no compensation these last few seasons. What Okafor or Jefferson offer, isn't valuable.

There is no Okafor-Russel debate. No GM in their right mind in the NBA views Okafor anywhere close to the level prospect that D'angelo Russell is, current or future. If he was anywhere close, Colangelo would have traded him for something by now.

And anybody who thinks there are 4-5 guards in the top of this draft, better than Russel, doesn't have a clue about judging talent or understanding of yearly talent distribution in the draft in general.

A few things:

- Jefferson is about to turn 32 and is on the decline so that contract makes sense. He had higher value in his prime.

- Charlotte in 2014, with a starting lineup of of Kemba, Henderson, MKG, McRoberts, and Jefferson was ranked the 5th best defense in the league. Based on you what you say about guys like Jefferson and how awful they will be for your defense if you start them at center, then even if MKG and Steve Clifford were Scottie Pippen and Larry Brown reincarnated that defense still wouldn't finish 5th. You don't realize that Jefferson became a competent defender and that Okafor has the potential to do the same.

- I wouldn't say there are 4-5 guards in this draft better than Russell as a prospect, but I would say that there are 4-5 perimeter players (including the SFs) on at least a similar level to Russell, and for that reason I definitely would not trade both the Lakers pick and Okafor for Russell.

[CoreyGallagher]

And anybody who thinks there are 4-5 guards in the top of this draft, better than Russel, doesn't have a clue about judging talent or understanding of yearly talent distribution in the draft in general.

You're the only one that specified Guards, it was 'any body' initially, so any prospect. 4-5 prospects could be better than Russell. Didn't even realize you changed that in the follow-up post.

[LloydFree]

And anybody who thinks there are 4-5 guards in the top of this draft, better than Russel, doesn't have a clue about judging talent or understanding of yearly talent distribution in the draft in general.

You're the only one that specified Guards, it was 'any body' initially, so any prospect. 4-5 prospects could be better than Russell. Didn't even realize you changed that in the follow-up post.

I never changed anything.