2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread IV

[EBrandEra]

Watch on YouTube

Form looks promising.

I'm really warming up to Fox.

Yeah, I'm not going to lie, Fox looked pretty good with his shooting form in that video. If he wows the Sixers in an individual workout, it wouldn't shock me if he ends up with us, and it may not be a bad pick IF his shot is really improving.

[sixerhp3]

I will be mad if we don't get either Jackson or DSJ. It's obvious those two have the most star potential.

[PhilBlackson]

I will be mad if we don't get either Jackson or DSJ. It's obvious those two have the most star potential.

Don't get me wrong DS Jr can turn out to be a great player but it's Jackson or bust. I'm telling you Josh has far more impact on a game, does so much more for his team overall on the floor and is just a winner.

You do not pass on Jackson (period). The kid is a competitor and just has "it".

[JMac1]

I will be mad if we don't get either Jackson or DSJ. It's obvious those two have the most star potential.

And Fox.....if he potentially gets his shot down.

[LloydFree]

Jackson can take the little man or the big man off the drive, all of the way to the basket. Can go right or left. And if you clog the lane and double him, has the awareness to get it to the big man... Plus he made over 45% of his open catch and shoot 3 pointers.










... and on the fast break...

[Kolkmania]

It would be really stupid if individual (shooting) workouts have a great impact. There's ~5 years of data available for the teams, one good or bad shooting day shouldn't influence that assessment. Think the interview is far more important.

[SelfishPlayer]

Josh Jackson does zero out of the triple threat position. He's a wing, when is he ever driving from the wing TO FINISH? I put in his numbers to find a player that had similarly bad numbers in FT shooting and TOV%, guys like Blake Graffin, Andre Roberson, Chandler Parsons, and Terrance Williams came up. Amazing how similarly built Parsons and Jackson are. They both have the same arms and wingspans that are bordering on being short, they have great height and good athleticism.

[Kolkmania]

Jackson can take the little man or the big man off the drive, all of the way to the basket. Can go right or left. And if you clog the lane and double him, has the awareness to get it to the big man... Plus he made over 45% of his open catch and shoot 3 pointers.








... and on the fast break...

These kind of GIF's are really dangerous, because a single play can skew the view of a prospect. You see Jackson creating initial separation against Fox (who's a technically poor one-on-one defender) and driving past a big out of Weave action (thus having an initial advantage) and you assume he's capable of doing that. The problem is, he doesn't do this on regular basis. In the same game against Kentucky Jackson had two offensive possession against Fox, one is the GIF, which lead to a good dish for Lucas, the other resulted in a poor contested jumper.
Also he had troubles against driving past Derek Willis, Wenyen Gabriel and Edric Adebayo, who aren't NBA level defenders by any means. I summarized every possession Jackson was involved in last week.

Fox had 10 points and 2 assists in that game. Jackson put up 20/10 and got the W.

I re-watched the entire game.

1st Half
19:25 Turnaround jumper over Adebayo
18:29 Fox scores on Jackson fastbreak euro-step
18:16 Fox scores on Jackson fastbreak overpowers
16:34 Airbals off the dribble against Gabriel
15:04 Misses stepback jumper against Gabriel
13:41 Nice drive and dish, Humpries bites on pump fake
13:11 Misses good look, stepback jumper on Willis
12:13 Blocked at the rim by Adebayo
9:19 Draws charge on Fox
8:39 Easy fastbreak pass on Mason
8:00 Crossover and right hand finish at the basket on Gabriel
6:35 Intercepts lazy pass by Fox for fastbreak dunk
6:02 Misses wide open corner three
4:47 Hits a contested off the dribble shot against Willis
4:07 Steals ball after FT rebound by Willis
3:28 Draws non-shooting foul on stumbling Willis after Weave action
3:03 Doubles post off Malik Monk at corner three, a big no-no
2:21 Easy drive-by Fox on Jackson, misses floater
1:47 Panicked by Fox' closeout and fumbles ball out of bounds while in shooting motion
1:28 Profits from poor P&R defense by Gabriel and makes uncontested lay-up

2nd Half
19:50 Good high-low pass resulting in non shooting-foul
19:45 Hits three pointer against Gabriel in pick and pop
19:08 Drive against Adebayo can't get shot up and drop-off nearly results in TO
19:03 Hits open three pointer after double team on Mason
18:44 Willis hits three after Jackson digs too much on driver
18:20 Draws foul on drive after Willis bites on pump fake
10:36 Tries to drive on Fox, initial separation and dishes the ball to Lucas for nice assist
9:45 One-on-one against Fox results in a bad miss off the backboard after contested jumper
7:53 Misses good look on three pointer after triple threat on Briscoe
7:31 Good hands, forces steal on Adebayo-post up
7:16 Ball thrown over Monk on post-up, resulting in lay-in.
4:42 Crossover on Fox, Adebayo and Fox contest shot and wisely decides to dish ball to Lucas, assist.
1:08 Gets offensive rebound and a putback, great activity
0:48 Dumb foul on Monk three pointer
0:18 Briscoe finishes over Jackson

I think this game is exemplary for Jackson's season. He had a great all around impact with 20-10, but how much of his impact is translatable to the NBA? Nearly all of his created shot attempts were against college 4's like Wenyen Gabriel and Derek Willis who are poor defenders and even when he faced those players he settled for jumpers, or blow past them after hard closeouts. Defensively he's great with his hands to force deflections and steals, but he's not nearly strong enough to bother drives from Fox and Briscoe. So unlike Tatum and Isaac I really doubt he'll ever thrive as a 4, simply because he's not strong enough. Take into account that he's also a year older than those guys.
So if he's not a 4 he'll be a 2/3 wing. If he struggles to create shots at the rim against dinosaurs like Derek Willis, how will he ever beat NBA wings off the dribble? Combine that with his poor shooting history and I just don't see the high upside offensively. That said, he's great off the bal cutting, he has great handles for his size and his vision is also impressive. So he'll survive in the NBA, but I see him as a role player.

[LloydFree]

I will be mad if we don't get either Jackson or DSJ. It's obvious those two have the most star potential.

Don't get me wrong DS Jr can turn out to be a great player but it's Jackson or bust. I'm telling you Josh has far more impact on a game, does so much more for his team overall on the floor and is just a winner.

You do not pass on Jackson (period). The kid is a competitor and just has "it".

Almost had the "and1" but couldn't pull the trigger. I hate the "just has it" phrase .

[Unbreakable99]

This draft is going to create so many I told you so's and people are going to refer back to the takes lol. We have 4 player stats who people have firm takes on prospects and are taking sides. We have people who don't think Fultz is the top prospect and is not as good as the many outlets make. And some think he's the perfect player for us and he's the missing piece. We have people who don't trust Jackson and say he's the best player and others who think he's overrated. We have some who think Tatum is just not going to be good and hate Duke players and some who think he has a high upside. And then there is Ball. Some think he's the top player or better than Fultz and some who don't think he will be that good. I have a feeling people are going to get quoted a lot from this thread whenthe season starts up to 3 years later lol.

[Kobblehead]

The most valid concern about Josh Jackson is whether or not he can be on the floor to close out tightly-contested games, given the probability of the other team employing the Hack-A-Jack strategy.

[freshie2]

The workout is valuable if it demonstrates improvement in his shooting from and consistency. I see the appeal of Jackson, but he also is the option at 3 which concerns me the most due to the shooting. Tatum will be solid offensively and a team defender, probably not great at either but possible a high end shooter. Fox has to put some weight on, but otherwise looks like a 1a PG in this draft. DSJ has some star potential as well, but the interview and his mindset are probably the biggest concerns. Isaac and Monk would be reaches at 3, but both have unique potential.

Jackson lands somewhere between Carney and Iguodala in terms of size skill packages of Sixers draft picks, but his shot has to improve to be worth the 3rd overall pick.

[LloydFree]

This draft is going to create so many I told you so's and people are going to refer back to the takes lol. We have 4 player stats who people have firm takes on prospects and are taking sides. We have people who don't think Fultz is the top prospect and is not as good as the many outlets make. And some think he's the perfect player for us and he's the missing piece. We have people who don't trust Jackson and say he's the best player and others who think he's overrated. We have some who think Tatum is just not going to be good and hate Duke players and some who think he has a high upside. And then there is Ball. Some think he's the top player or better than Fultz and some who don't think he will be that good. I have a feeling people are going to get quoted a lot from this thread whenthe season starts up to 3 years later lol.

You mean someone is going to quote my Josh Jackson resembles Scottie Pippen remark.

There are guys who post here, that argued vehemently that Julius Randle was a better prospect than Embiid and Okafor was a better prospect than Towns. Even the lost souls who thought Buddy Hield was a good prospect, still post here confidently. Everyone will just say "I was wrong... so sue me" and go on posting.

[Eyeamok]

This draft is going to create so many I told you so's and people are going to refer back to the takes lol. We have 4 player stats who people have firm takes on prospects and are taking sides. We have people who don't think Fultz is the top prospect and is not as good as the many outlets make. And some think he's the perfect player for us and he's the missing piece. We have people who don't trust Jackson and say he's the best player and others who think he's overrated. We have some who think Tatum is just not going to be good and hate Duke players and some who think he has a high upside. And then there is Ball. Some think he's the top player or better than Fultz and some who don't think he will be that good. I have a feeling people are going to get quoted a lot from this thread whenthe season starts up to 3 years later lol.

You mean someone is going to quote my Josh Jackson resembles Scottie Pippen remark.

There are guys who post here, that argued vehemently that Julius Randle was a better prospect than Embiid and Okafor was a better prospect than Towns. Even the lost souls who thought Buddy Hield was a good prospect, still post here confidently. Everyone will just say "I was wrong... so sue me" and go on posting.

Very few people say I am/ was wrong. But they still go on posting.

[Unbreakable99]

Here's a big board from dean on draft. Pretty interesting list.

https://deanondraft.com/2017/05/25/big-board-update-525/

[LloydFree]

This draft is going to create so many I told you so's and people are going to refer back to the takes lol. We have 4 player stats who people have firm takes on prospects and are taking sides. We have people who don't think Fultz is the top prospect and is not as good as the many outlets make. And some think he's the perfect player for us and he's the missing piece. We have people who don't trust Jackson and say he's the best player and others who think he's overrated. We have some who think Tatum is just not going to be good and hate Duke players and some who think he has a high upside. And then there is Ball. Some think he's the top player or better than Fultz and some who don't think he will be that good. I have a feeling people are going to get quoted a lot from this thread whenthe season starts up to 3 years later lol.

You mean someone is going to quote my Josh Jackson resembles Scottie Pippen remark.

There are guys who post here, that argued vehemently that Julius Randle was a better prospect than Embiid and Okafor was a better prospect than Towns. Even the lost souls who thought Buddy Hield was a good prospect, still post here confidently. Everyone will just say "I was wrong... so sue me" and go on posting.

Very few people say I am/ was wrong. But they still go on posting.

I'm ashamed to say I liked Brandon Ingram more than Simmons much of the year before. Didn't think any team would allow Simmons to run point forward, which IMO, was the only way to maximize him. He couldn't shoot, so he couldn't be a stretch 4 and he doesn't have the length to be a terror on defense at the 4. It took a friend of mine to point out, after the lottery, that the 76ers can't pass up on Simmons. Because if you let the Lakers get him and he becomes Magic Johnson, you won't be able to live with yourself. That convinced me. I was looking at the whole thing wrong and the fact I was more concerned about Simmons going to the Lakers than Ingram, proved I WAS WRONG.

[Eyeamok]

You mean someone is going to quote my Josh Jackson resembles Scottie Pippen remark.

There are guys who post here, that argued vehemently that Julius Randle was a better prospect than Embiid and Okafor was a better prospect than Towns. Even the lost souls who thought Buddy Hield was a good prospect, still post here confidently. Everyone will just say "I was wrong... so sue me" and go on posting.

Very few people say I am/ was wrong. But they still go on posting.

I'm ashamed to say I liked Brandon Ingram more than Simmons much of the year before. Didn't think any team would allow Simmons to run point forward, which IMO, was the only way to maximize him. He couldn't shoot, so he couldn't be a stretch 4 and he doesn't have the length to be a terror on defense at the 4. It took a friend of mine to point out, after the lottery, that the 76ers can't pass up on Simmons. Because if you let the Lakers get him and he becomes Magic Johnson, you won't be able to live with yourself. That convinced me. I was looking at the whole thing wrong and the fact I was more concerned about Simmons going to the Lakers than Ingram, proved I WAS WRONG.

I'm proud of you man. A big Add 1 for you.

[HotelVitale]

Jackson lands somewhere between Carney and Iguodala in terms of size skill packages of Sixers draft picks, but his shot has to improve to be worth the 3rd overall pick.

We gotta stop with this 'worth the 3rd pick' thing. We don't have to make a riskier pick because the 3rd pick is supposed to be a high upside guy, nor do we have to do the opposite and get a surefire starter cuz we aren't allowed to miss with the 3rd pick or something.

The only thing that matters for that is if we end up liking a lower rated prospect best and miss an opportunity to trade down and pick up some other goodies. The draft is unpredictable enough to make that a risky endeavor, though, and we shouldn't be shy about choosing someone who's not a consensus top-4 guy either. Take a quick look at the draft history of the top ten--there's always a bust in the top 3 and a couple guys 4-10 who end up better than at least someone in the top 3.

[76ciology]

Jackson can take the little man or the big man off the drive, all of the way to the basket. Can go right or left. And if you clog the lane and double him, has the awareness to get it to the big man... Plus he made over 45% of his open catch and shoot 3 pointers.










... and on the fast break...

Wait.. Regarding the first gif.. You mean to say he can create off De Aaron Fox' ELITE PERIMETER defense?

[Negrodamus]

This draft is going to create so many I told you so's and people are going to refer back to the takes lol. We have 4 player stats who people have firm takes on prospects and are taking sides. We have people who don't think Fultz is the top prospect and is not as good as the many outlets make. And some think he's the perfect player for us and he's the missing piece. We have people who don't trust Jackson and say he's the best player and others who think he's overrated. We have some who think Tatum is just not going to be good and hate Duke players and some who think he has a high upside. And then there is Ball. Some think he's the top player or better than Fultz and some who don't think he will be that good. I have a feeling people are going to get quoted a lot from this thread whenthe season starts up to 3 years later lol.

You mean someone is going to quote my Josh Jackson resembles Scottie Pippen remark.

There are guys who post here, that argued vehemently that Julius Randle was a better prospect than Embiid and Okafor was a better prospect than Towns. Even the lost souls who thought Buddy Hield was a good prospect, still post here confidently. Everyone will just say "I was wrong... so sue me" and go on posting.

Or some will use taking a chance on Josh Selby or, weirdly enough, Kenneth Faried as the basis of discounting any predictions you make in the future. (Just for clarity, I'm talking about one of our trolls that went post diving for a prediction of mine from 2011. It's actually a bit flattering that it took him that far back to find dirt on me)

It's fun to argue points on here, but at the end of the day, none of this matters. we don't have a say in any of this.