Welcome to the Sixers, PJ Tucker

[ckchen]

Bassey didn't play. Bassey needed to gain weight. Reed is way undersized and foul prone with a low bball iq. We did see Reed play, it wasn't good enough. I'm referring to his time on the court and in the playoffs.... When Joel left the court even with Reed playing with 3-4 starters, it wasn't good enough defensively. I have more faith in Bassey. But again, is the goal to develop a role player or win a title?

Doc coached here more than 1 year... Both years Thybulle made all defensive teams and got playing time as a flawed 2nd and 3rd years player, killing the argument that Doc waiting l won't play a developing player.

Maxey playing more was based on need with Ben, but to say a late first rounder that came into the league without pg skills, without a jumper, without defensive ability and undersized want developed by his coach is asinine. Furthermore he played about 15 minutes his rookie year with a stacked guard rotation.... Including the playoffs.... So he was played while developing too.

By the time we saw Reed play, it was basically out of desperation. I personally didn't think he was even remotely close to as bad you make it sound, and he was the only frontcourt player that had the physical tools to not be a defensive liability besides Joel. It's not like DJ or Millsap was going to do any better than be literal statues on the court. But frankly, using Reed's playoff minutes as a gauge to whether or not he can play is what is asinine. Doc refused to play either of these guys any minutes whatsoever during the regular season, which is the opportunity to develop and become a useful player, so that you can contribute effectively come playoff time. If Doc refuses to play those guys all season and then throws Reed into a playoff game after barely playing all season, I'm not sure what you would expect.

The argument that Doc somehow developed Thybulle is what is ridiculous. The fact that Thybulle's production has basically been a complete standstill or possibly even a regression after his rookie year basically evidence enough. He played him because he had no better options, not because he was trying to develop him.

It's not asinine to say that Doc has little or nothing to with Maxey's development - Maxey's never once recognized Doc as having anything to do with it, crediting Sam Cassell or his own personal work. His PT absolutely increased basically because Doc was forced to play him with Simmons sitting, and it was only the quality of Maxey's play that kept him on the floor. If anything Doc went out of the way to constantly say how surprised he was that Maxey was as good as he was so quickly. If you honestly believe that Doc would've played Maxey as much as he did if Simmons was on the team and playing all season (or even if Seth Curry was never traded away) you're crazy. He would've ridden those guys 30+mpg every game and Maxey would still be playing 15 mpg mostly in mop-up duty.

[youngcrev]

Paul Reed was better this past year in the playoffs than Andre Drummond by pretty much every metric.

I'm not super confident in Reed being the answer for this team, but Drummond has been on bargain basement deals the last few years for good reason.

[M2J]

By the time we saw Reed play, it was basically out of desperation. I personally didn't think he was even remotely close to as bad you make it sound, and he was the only frontcourt player that had the physical tools to not be a defensive liability besides Joel. It's not like DJ or Millsap was going to do any better than be literal statues on the court. But frankly, using Reed's playoff minutes as a gauge to whether or not he can play is what is asinine. Doc refused to play either of these guys any minutes whatsoever during the regular season, which is the opportunity to develop and become a useful player, so that you can contribute effectively come playoff time. If Doc refuses to play those guys all season and then throws Reed into a playoff game after barely playing all season, I'm not sure what you would expect.

The argument that Doc somehow developed Thybulle is what is ridiculous. The fact that Thybulle's production has basically been a complete standstill or possibly even a regression after his rookie year basically evidence enough. He played him because he had no better options, not because he was trying to develop him.

It's not asinine to say that Doc has little or nothing to with Maxey's development - Maxey's never once recognized Doc as having anything to do with it, crediting Sam Cassell or his own personal work. His PT absolutely increased basically because Doc was forced to play him with Simmons sitting, and it was only the quality of Maxey's play that kept him on the floor. If anything Doc went out of the way to constantly say how surprised he was that Maxey was as good as he was so quickly. If you honestly believe that Doc would've played Maxey as much as he did if Simmons was on the team and playing all season (or even if Seth Curry was never traded away) you're crazy. He would've ridden those guys 30+mpg every game and Maxey would still be playing 15 mpg mostly in mop-up duty.

1. Whether a coach is playing Thybulle out of necessity, doesn't change the fact that he played a developing player. Which you stated he wouldn't in regards to the likes of Reed.... Who he also played out of necessity BTW. My point is he'll gladly play developing players that has strengths that benefit the team. Rather than playing someone that's not benefiting the team, for development sake. Same as he did for Maxey. Same as he did for SGA, Mann, Shamet, and Zubac, all the way back to Rondo and Perkins and others before them. Thybulle also was clearly a more solid and intelligent defender than his rookie year where he was mainly talent.

2. Literally the first thing I said about Maxey was that he was playing more due to Ben. But with his improved ability to shoot threes, he would've clearly played more. 15 mpg as a rookie with that many guards means you're playing more than mop up duty, you're a solid nightly rotation player. Doc, is the head coach not a personal trainer, Maxey has said plenty regarding Docs support... And if Docs assistant is working with him... They're following the head coaches agenda and Doc allowed him to showcase it in games.

[kuclas]

It’s Danny green/Mike scott/Amir Johnson all over again.

These guys can give us one good year. The cliff falls off quickly.

So if we can get one solid year from pj tucker and sixers advance to at least the finals. It will be worth it.

But years 2 and 3 may be disasters. Granted. He may have 5 years less nba wear and tear (didn’t play in nba from 2006.

Still age 37 is 37. He’s really a power forward which we need. Hustle player. He can guard 2-4. And good wide open 3 point shooter.

[ckchen]

1. Whether a coach is playing Thybulle out of necessity, doesn't change the fact that he played a developing player. Which you stated he wouldn't in regards to the likes of Reed.... Who he also played out of necessity BTW. My point is he'll gladly play developing players that has strengths that benefit the team. Rather than playing someone that's not benefiting the team, for development sake. Same as he did for Maxey. Same as he did for SGA, Mann, Shamet, and Zubac, all the way back to Rondo and Perkins and others before them. Thybulle also was clearly a more solid and intelligent defender than his rookie year where he was mainly talent.

2. Literally the first thing I said about Maxey was that he was playing more due to Ben. But with his improved ability to shoot threes, he would've clearly played more. 15 mpg as a rookie with that many guards means you're playing more than mop up duty, you're a solid nightly rotation player. Doc, is the head coach not a personal trainer, Maxey has said plenty regarding Docs support... And if Docs assistant is working with him... They're following the head coaches agenda and Doc allowed him to showcase it in games.

You're arguing that a coach is playing someone out of necessity, but at the same time trying to say that he would "happily do it." That's simply not the case. History has shown that Doc will almost always choose the veteran option if it's provided to him if it's there. He played guys like Mann because he had no other options at SF when Paul George was injured. Even if you go back as far as Rondo - he played him because the Celtics roster construction didn't give him a choice since the Celtics had no PGs on the roster besides Telfair, who he started for the most of the first half of the season. I believe my argument still holds true - given a veteran option Doc will almost always choose to play that player over a "developing" player until the choice is basically taken away from him.

Playing a player of necessity, does in fact change the intent. It means that Doc would NOT have played that player given another choice. He will not "gladly" play these players, he is grudgingly allowing them to play and only after his hand is essentially forced by lack of veteran options or being clearly outplayed does it stick. I still hold to the fact that he 100% would never have allowed Maxey to develop with the minutes he was given, had Simmons and Curry, etc. still been on the roster ad available. That is and remains to be, IMO, his greatest weakness as a coach - he is stubborn and arrogant, specifically about this issue, to the core. Even after Reed showed some potential by the time Doc was essentially forced to play him, he refused to acknowledge it and still gave that line about the "this isn't the Paul Reed victory tour". My original point still stands - if you take the choice out of Doc's hands, only then will he be forced to play those players, so I hope that keeping a veteran option off the table lasts into the season.

[M2J]

1. Whether a coach is playing Thybulle out of necessity, doesn't change the fact that he played a developing player. Which you stated he wouldn't in regards to the likes of Reed.... Who he also played out of necessity BTW. My point is he'll gladly play developing players that has strengths that benefit the team. Rather than playing someone that's not benefiting the team, for development sake. Same as he did for Maxey. Same as he did for SGA, Mann, Shamet, and Zubac, all the way back to Rondo and Perkins and others before them. Thybulle also was clearly a more solid and intelligent defender than his rookie year where he was mainly talent.

2. Literally the first thing I said about Maxey was that he was playing more due to Ben. But with his improved ability to shoot threes, he would've clearly played more. 15 mpg as a rookie with that many guards means you're playing more than mop up duty, you're a solid nightly rotation player. Doc, is the head coach not a personal trainer, Maxey has said plenty regarding Docs support... And if Docs assistant is working with him... They're following the head coaches agenda and Doc allowed him to showcase it in games.

You're arguing that a coach is playing someone out of necessity, but at the same time trying to say that he would "happily do it." That's simply not the case. History has shown that Doc will almost always choose the veteran option if it's provided to him if it's there. He played guys like Mann because he had no other options at SF when Paul George was injured. Even if you go back as far as Rondo - he played him because the Celtics roster construction didn't give him a choice since the Celtics had no PGs on the roster besides Telfair, who he started for the most of the first half of the season. I believe my argument still holds true - given a veteran option Doc will almost always choose to play that player over a "developing" player until the choice is basically taken away from him.

Playing a player of necessity, does in fact change the intent. It means that Doc would NOT have played that player given another choice. He will not "gladly" play these players, he is grudgingly allowing them to play and only after his hand is essentially forced by lack of veteran options or being clearly outplayed does it stick. I still hold to the fact that he 100% would never have allowed Maxey to develop with the minutes he was given, had Simmons and Curry, etc. still been on the roster ad available. That is and remains to be, IMO, his greatest weakness as a coach - he is stubborn and arrogant, specifically about this issue, to the core. Even after Reed showed some potential by the time Doc was essentially forced to play him, he refused to acknowledge it and still gave that line about the "this isn't the Paul Reed victory tour". My original point still stands - if you take the choice out of Doc's hands, only then will he be forced to play those players, so I hope that keeping a veteran option off the table lasts into the season.

Okay now you're just arguing to argue. Any coach is going to play his best options. Some of those options produce positives very clearly like Thybulle or Rondo. Some of those options like Reed you're just trying to stay afloat with out of necessity, because they are not ready to play. Paul Reed getting 25 points against the worst team in the NBA when they were playing their bench in the last game of the season is not showing potential... Give him thriving versus G leaguers which we know he can do. This is not a rebuilding team you don't just play a G league player for development sake when you have people who make less mistakes.

There's a difference. I don't really care what you think about Maxey role..... Because the facts are that he played a major role on the number one seed in the East as a rookie that had a lot of flaws. When there were several more veteran options available on the roster. He played Zubac over Herrell too. So to just put him in a box that way is factually incorrect.... An agenda to make Reed seem like a legit option

[ckchen]

Okay now you're just arguing to argue. Any coach is going to play his best options. Some of those options produce positives very clearly like Thybulle or Rondo. Some of those options like Reed you're just trying to stay afloat with out of necessity, because they are not ready to play. Paul Reed getting 25 points against the worst team in the NBA when they were playing their bench in the last game of the season is not showing potential... Give him thriving versus G leaguers which we know he can do. This is not a rebuilding team you don't just play a G league player for development sake when you have people who make less mistakes.

There's a difference. I don't really care what you think about Maxey role..... Because the facts are that he played a major role on the number one seed in the East as a rookie that had a lot of flaws. When there were several more veteran options available on the roster. He played Zubac over Herrell too. So to just put him in a box that way is factually incorrect.... An agenda to make Reed seem like a legit option

Am I? So you're saying the "best option" was to give minutes to a completely washed Paul Millsap over Reed during the regular season? I could also argue the same with DJ. The argument is what Doc thinks are "better" options primarily seems to mean veteran options when given the choice. Even the Zubac/Herrell argument doesn't makes sense. Harrell was a 4th year player vs Zubac's 3rd year and always played off the bench as an undersized center. Doc started and played Marcin Gortat that entire season and only threw Zubac into the fray once Gortat was waived toward the end of the season. If anything, it's yet ANOTHER example of Doc being forced into playing developing players only by necessity rather than any desire on his part to just play the best option. He actually continually started a player that the front office waived for ineffectiveness over playing younger, developing options. If anything it's more facts that support my opinion, not the contrary.

[LloydFree]

So what? Is PJ like the backup center in Morey's mind?

Can't believe they didn't get Drummond

Get out of here. Andre Drummond is trash. All he can do is eat Regular season minutes for you. He doesn't help you one bit once the playoffs start.

[M2J]

Okay now you're just arguing to argue. Any coach is going to play his best options. Some of those options produce positives very clearly like Thybulle or Rondo. Some of those options like Reed you're just trying to stay afloat with out of necessity, because they are not ready to play. Paul Reed getting 25 points against the worst team in the NBA when they were playing their bench in the last game of the season is not showing potential... Give him thriving versus G leaguers which we know he can do. This is not a rebuilding team you don't just play a G league player for development sake when you have people who make less mistakes.

There's a difference. I don't really care what you think about Maxey role..... Because the facts are that he played a major role on the number one seed in the East as a rookie that had a lot of flaws. When there were several more veteran options available on the roster. He played Zubac over Herrell too. So to just put him in a box that way is factually incorrect.... An agenda to make Reed seem like a legit option

Am I? So you're saying the "best option" was to give minutes to a completely washed Paul Millsap over Reed during the regular season? I could also argue the same with DJ. The argument is what Doc thinks are "better" options primarily seems to mean veteran options when given the choice. Even the Zubac/Herrell argument doesn't makes sense. Harrell was a 4th year player vs Zubac's 3rd year and always played off the bench as an undersized center. Doc started and played Marcin Gortat that entire season and only threw Zubac into the fray once Gortat was waived toward the end of the season. If anything, it's yet ANOTHER example of Doc being forced into playing developing players only by necessity rather than any desire on his part to just play the best option. He actually continually started a player that the front office waived for ineffectiveness over playing younger, developing options. If anything it's more facts that support my opinion, not the contrary.

No my argument is clearly that there are no good options. They need to find one. For them to give minutes to proven veterans to see if they can provide more than an unproven young player.... That puts the team in foul trouble within the first two minutes of every fourth quarter makes sense to me.

[M2J]

So what? Is PJ like the backup center in Morey's mind?

Can't believe they didn't get Drummond

Get out of here. Andre Drummond is trash. All he can do is eat Regular season minutes for you. He doesn't help you one bit once the playoffs start.

Please stop.... The defense and rebounding with him would have been so much better with the Reed in the playoffs. For an MLE player he would have been so much more worth it to fill an obvious need. The Sixers went from having what was perceived to be possibly the best backup center situation to the worst when he was traded. Am I the only one to recall that fact, no matter which of them played.

I know you're not saying that Reed was exactly thriving... I won't even play those games and put words in your mouth so what are you arguing? One of the best backup centers in the league on a team like Philly that fits his style.... Isn't worth the MLE?

I know so many of you guys want to be able to say you were right and Rivers was wrong and whoever was wrong. Bball Paul is a great name and story, but that line of thought will leave his team with a huge huge flaw that could easily have been fixed

[spikeslovechild]

I will say that if we move Harris for either Durant or Irving then the Tucker signing makes a whole lot more sense. He is a guy who needs to start because he depends on the gravity of those around him so that he can be useful offensively.

He is a guy who doesn't really appear to fit right now but all that changes if we move Harris. We will see if Morey can swing a deal.

[mjkvol]

By the time we saw Reed play, it was basically out of desperation. I personally didn't think he was even remotely close to as bad you make it sound, and he was the only frontcourt player that had the physical tools to not be a defensive liability besides Joel. It's not like DJ or Millsap was going to do any better than be literal statues on the court. But frankly, using Reed's playoff minutes as a gauge to whether or not he can play is what is asinine. Doc refused to play either of these guys any minutes whatsoever during the regular season, which is the opportunity to develop and become a useful player, so that you can contribute effectively come playoff time. If Doc refuses to play those guys all season and then throws Reed into a playoff game after barely playing all season, I'm not sure what you would expect.

The argument that Doc somehow developed Thybulle is what is ridiculous. The fact that Thybulle's production has basically been a complete standstill or possibly even a regression after his rookie year basically evidence enough. He played him because he had no better options, not because he was trying to develop him.

It's not asinine to say that Doc has little or nothing to with Maxey's development - Maxey's never once recognized Doc as having anything to do with it, crediting Sam Cassell or his own personal work. His PT absolutely increased basically because Doc was forced to play him with Simmons sitting, and it was only the quality of Maxey's play that kept him on the floor. If anything Doc went out of the way to constantly say how surprised he was that Maxey was as good as he was so quickly. If you honestly believe that Doc would've played Maxey as much as he did if Simmons was on the team and playing all season (or even if Seth Curry was never traded away) you're crazy. He would've ridden those guys 30+mpg every game and Maxey would still be playing 15 mpg mostly in mop-up duty.

This ^^^^^^^^^^

[Foshan]

By the time we saw Reed play, it was basically out of desperation. I personally didn't think he was even remotely close to as bad you make it sound, and he was the only frontcourt player that had the physical tools to not be a defensive liability besides Joel. It's not like DJ or Millsap was going to do any better than be literal statues on the court. But frankly, using Reed's playoff minutes as a gauge to whether or not he can play is what is asinine. Doc refused to play either of these guys any minutes whatsoever during the regular season, which is the opportunity to develop and become a useful player, so that you can contribute effectively come playoff time. If Doc refuses to play those guys all season and then throws Reed into a playoff game after barely playing all season, I'm not sure what you would expect.

The argument that Doc somehow developed Thybulle is what is ridiculous. The fact that Thybulle's production has basically been a complete standstill or possibly even a regression after his rookie year basically evidence enough. He played him because he had no better options, not because he was trying to develop him.

It's not asinine to say that Doc has little or nothing to with Maxey's development - Maxey's never once recognized Doc as having anything to do with it, crediting Sam Cassell or his own personal work. His PT absolutely increased basically because Doc was forced to play him with Simmons sitting, and it was only the quality of Maxey's play that kept him on the floor. If anything Doc went out of the way to constantly say how surprised he was that Maxey was as good as he was so quickly. If you honestly believe that Doc would've played Maxey as much as he did if Simmons was on the team and playing all season (or even if Seth Curry was never traded away) you're crazy. He would've ridden those guys 30+mpg every game and Maxey would still be playing 15 mpg mostly in mop-up duty.

This ^^^^^^^^^^

Agreed.

[M2J]

Wishful thinking

[youngcrev]

This signing is the smarter version of when DeAndre Jordan got his last big contract with the Nets. Kyrie and KD took less to get their guy. It was money that they wouldn't have had otherwise.

Harden took less so him and Embiid could get the guy they wanted. In this case (unlike Jordan), said guy actually makes sense for them to go after. Will the third year be iffy? Of course. But you're not getting him otherwise, and without Harden's cooperation, you're not getting a different guy for the MLE.

So far I think Kyle Anderson is the only guy I'd take that signed a sub-MLE contract over him, and that's a less seamless fit since he's mostly a non-shooter.

[76ciology]

Nobody has discussed this before

Theres a really good chance of a Lockout in 2024. We’d be playing in a short season in Tucker’s 3rd year of his contract.

[youngcrev]

Nobody has discussed this before

Theres a really good chance of a Lockout in 2024. We’d be playing in a short season in Tucker’s 3rd year of his contract.

I haven't heard lockout. I have heard "massive jump in the cap"

[76ciology]

Nobody has discussed this before

Theres a really good chance of a Lockout in 2024. We’d be playing in a short season in Tucker’s 3rd year of his contract.

I haven't heard lockout. I have heard "massive jump in the cap"

That too can work for us. If massive jump in cap happens it means Tucker’s $10M per year is devalued.

Honestly, im not so updated on the cap and i was surprised that the MLE is $10M, before it was just around $4.5M if im not mistaken.

For the lockout, i think i heard it on either the Lowe’s podcast or derek bodners podcast when they said that they may not have a job in 2024 because of a possible lockout

[M2J]

Nobody has discussed this before

Theres a really good chance of a Lockout in 2024. We’d be playing in a short season in Tucker’s 3rd year of his contract.

I haven't heard lockout. I have heard "massive jump in the cap"

That too can work for us. If massive jump in cap happens it means Tucker’s $10M per year is devalued.

Honestly, im not so updated on the cap and i was surprised that the MLE is $10M, before it was just around $4.5M if im not mistaken.

For the lockout, i think i heard it on either the Lowe’s podcast or derek bodners podcast when they said that they may not have a job in 2024 because of a possible lockout

The only real issue likely to cause a lockout would be potentially penalties for players not playing such as Ben Simmons. It won't be money or less games.... Even the player issue isn't worth running away from all of their money

[Sixerscan]

Nobody has discussed this before

Theres a really good chance of a Lockout in 2024. We’d be playing in a short season in Tucker’s 3rd year of his contract.

Would that be good for an old guy? The season could be shorter but there would be more back to backs so they can get as many games in as they can.

I’m assuming Tucker’s value in year 3 will mostly be as a Haslem-type locker room presence and potential trade filler.

In fact with us having our First in 2024 still (heading into the last year of Tucker’s deal) I could see them already planning to make a similar draft trade with his contract that they just used Green’s contract for to get Melton. Or else just use the pick to just get off of the contract if they have a plan with cap space with Tobias’s contract coming off the books.

In the meantime hopefully Tucker has 2 years left in the tank.