2025 NBA Draft (2)

[Sixersftw]

Would love to select him with 3rd overall if only he has a higher upside on offense.

Since we're going down memory lane... I get the same exact feeling with VJ I got from Marcus Smart before the Embiid injury. I love the player and every single thing they do but, at 3, can we really afford to use the pick on a guy who is most likely an elite role player?

[Negrodamus]

Read on Twitter

This is the most compelling argument I've seen for Ace and would actually help me come to terms with him at #3 if we ended up selecting him. Acknowledges his shortcomings, gives numbers to back up his upside, gives clips to show his special moments, describes the path to becoming a very good, possibly star level player. His ability to recognize backdoor cuts and get himself open has not been talked about much on here despite it being one of his more alluring traits on offense, particularly on a team with Embiid, PG, and Maxey needing the ball. Way more willing to listen to pro-Ace takes like this.

[Arsenal]

I'll ignore the insults and personal attacks and focus on the substance of your post here. Derik Queen is not good enough to be the offensive engine on a contender. I mean you are all over Ace for his distribution weaknesses, meanwhile Queen has a putrid 0.79 Assist to Turnover ratio. Why so terrible if he's such a great offensive distributor?

Then factor in his inability to protect the rim or switch on D which are paramount for a modern big, and you have a losing archetype. His very peak upside case is someone like Domantas Sabonis, a guy you can never be a contender with. Basically a guy who puts up numbers on bad or mediocre teams. And that's the upside case.

Meanwhile, Sorber provides exactly what you need as a modern big, rim protection, ability to switch, and can finish on offense so he can play a complementary role alongside a real offensive engine.

Not an insult or personal attack; calling you "Deranged" would be a personal attack. Calling the narrative of me having an anti-Ace bias "stupid" is not me calling you stupid. Saying your arguments are "strawmen" and "dishonest" is not calling YOU dishonest. I suppose the bit about your reading comprehension could be interpreted as an insult, and I apologize if that was too harsh. Just wanted to clarify that.

I think the upside case is Alperen Sengun, who had a pretty decent first round in the playoffs. Not sure if Queen or Alperen will ever be a top 10 player in the league, but based on what I'm looking at on the big board, that's the highest level of talent I'm seeing in the general area.

I factor in (possibly too much) how well they finish out the season, which Queen ballooned his scoring output quite a bit while scaling back distribution. He's not the point guard for the team, but watching him, it's clear he has the chops and the stats do back it up (even if he's turnover prone at times). Turnovers can be a concern if it's egregious (part of the reason I'm a bit wary of Kasparas), but I don't really see it as prohibitive in the case of Queen.

I don't know if you in earnest want to hear more of my thoughts about Queen or if it's being used as a parallel argument to negate my argument against Ace, but I can expound more.

We go way back here, I always value your opinion. I just believe Queen is a losing archetype no matter how much of his potential he fulfills.

The only player of that archetype who is a true superstar and offensive engine for a contender is Nikola Jokic. Guys like Sengun, Sabonis, etc. will never win titles.

[Sixersftw]

That Tik Tok was good. The cutting and movement shooting is potentially crazy with McCain.

[Arsenal]

With Ace it's all about their assessment of his mentality. If he's coachable and willing to learn and take direction, then he's the guy. If not, then they need to look elsewhere.

[76ciology]

Would love to select him with 3rd overall if only he has a higher upside on offense.

Since we're going down memory lane... I get the same exact feeling with VJ I got from Marcus Smart before the Embiid injury. I love the player and every single thing they do but, at 3, can we really afford to use the pick on a guy who is most likely an elite role player?

Smart is a very good comp!

A bit of Marcus Smart history.. Orlando’s GM at the time, Rob Hennigan, came from the Thunder and was reportedly involved in the Westbrook pick. He saw Marcus Smart as a potential Westbrook 2.0 and was eager to draft him in 2013, until Smart surprised everyone by returning for his sophomore season. With Smart off the board, the Magic took Victor Oladipo in 2013 and followed up with Aaron Gordon the next year (Magic had Dipo and Payton at that time).

[76ciology]

The Ringer might be the smart to short the Ace Bailey stock. Givony sounded pretty convinced Bailey should go third overall. While on the other hand, we’ve heard all the arguments on why Bailey should not be in the top 3. Sliding him to 8th is a strong statement.

In a way, Ace might end up deciding who wins the draft battle.. ESPN or The Ringer.

[Negrodamus]

I think Morey has the highest non-Flagg or Harper grade on Nipples.

I’ve been low-key feeling like he could be the pick. Insane analytics and has upside as a primary ball handler in a PnR heavy offense. Morey also famously doesn’t care about defense.

[sodmoraes]

Read on Twitter

This is the most compelling argument I've seen for Ace and would actually help me come to terms with him at #3 if we ended up selecting him. Acknowledges his shortcomings, gives numbers to back up his upside, gives clips to show his special moments, describes the path to becoming a very good, possibly star level player. His ability to recognize backdoor cuts and get himself open has not been talked about much on here despite it being one of his more alluring traits on offense, particularly on a team with Embiid, PG, and Maxey needing the ball. Way more willing to listen to pro-Ace takes like this.

Good video. He has some significant flaws, but what i like about him( besides his 3&D potential) is that his mid range jumper seems too good, like superstar good, so if he can drop the bad things in his game( not that will be easy) he can be a special player. In the playoffs, having a tough iso shotmaker makes a lot of difference. I dont see that potential in Edgecombe. Tre has a lot of potential, but im worried with his defense, and we already are kinda loaded on guards.

[Black Mage]

Like Black Mage posted in the other draft topic,in my opinion doesnt make sense to not draft Bailey because we want to "maximize this contention window" with Embiid´s timeline. It´s almost malpratice to still think about Embiid, specially jeopardizing our future with the 3rd pick. That ship already sailed, Embiid will never be 100% again. And even if he were, his game is not made to the playoffs( like Harden, he wont get a lot of fouls in the playoffs, so his scoring drops a lot), we already have a lot of evidence to back this up. I love the big fella, but i dont think we should plan our future considering Joel anymore.

Kyle was much more upfront that he doesn't see any guy 3-8 and beyond being serviceable players for the upcoming year and being a few years away.

Derek is obviously an extremely risk averse evaluator. He seems to forget that in today's NBA the top of the draft is going to be filled with 1 and done players who aren't polished gems like the days of 3 and 4 year college experience kids. Drafting in the top of the draft, outside of the top 2 usually, is going to come with inherent risk and gambles. What you do not want to do is miss out on that T-Mac, PG13, etc because you played it safe and drafted a Derrick White or a Tyler Herro.

[Stanford]

Guards have upside! I don't know where this idea came from that you have to be a wing to have superstar potential. Maybe Ace is MPJ or Ingram and VJ is Westbrook or Wade. Maybe Tre is Harden. You wouldn't pass on Westbrook or Harden for MPJ, would you?

[Mik317]

Kon is the guy whose tape I love. He always stood out during my Duke watches this year. I think they lost the last game because they went away from him imo.

Just don't know if you can hide him on defense and I wish we was a bit taller and more capable of playing the 3. Him skipping testing was smart lol because if he can hold up on defense (never will be a stopper of course ) then that kinda makes him the pick in terms of what we need skillset wise. He's kinda like a bigger McCain in a sense.

[the_process]

I think Morey has the highest non-Flagg or Harper grade on Nipples.

I’ve been low-key feeling like he could be the pick. Insane analytics and has upside as a primary ball handler in a PnR heavy offense. Morey also famously doesn’t care about defense.

And the athleticism is reminiscent of McCain, and we saw what McCain was (surprisingly) able to do despite that.

I just hope Morey can trade down for Kon and get some more assets while paying him a little less and re-signing Grimes.

[Arsenal]

Guards have upside! I don't know where this idea came from that you have to be a wing to have superstar potential. Maybe Ace is MPJ or Ingram and VJ is Westbrook or Wade. Maybe Tre is Harden. You wouldn't pass on Westbrook or Harden for MPJ, would you?

Don't overthink it!

[sodmoraes]

No doubt Kon will be good (atleast on offense), but even trading down to get him, in a good package, he seems like a meh pick. We are in a kinda tough spot, kinda transitioning from Embiid´s era and we need a shining new toy. I don think he´s that guy, even if we get a nice draft compensation.

[Black Mage]

LaVine was defined by his athleticism. If Bailey has the kind of suddenness he did, I’m not objecting to picking him at 3. That’s the whole discussion to me. Ace isn’t quick enough to get around people, so he has to shoot over top. The best bet for doing that is to be an outlier body type. He’s not.

I really do not care who thinks he’s going to grow more. That’s pure wishcasting. None of us have any way of making that projection either way.

FWIW - tankathon does a great job collating prospect combine data.

Lane Agility - Lavine 10.42 - Bailey 10.97

Shuttle - 2.8 -2.78

Sprint 3.19 - 3.12

Vert - 41.5 - 34.5

Outside of jumping - Ace tested same or better than Lavine. He also tested better than VJ in Shuttle, Sprint and Agility. I tried to look up Kon, but apparently he's a chicken.

[PhillyNj]

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/

New Ringer big board:

1. Flagg
2. Harper.
3. Edgecombe
4. Tre
5. Knueppel
6. Bailey
7. Carter Bryant
8. Queen
9. Maluach
10. Fears

Just shows they’re stupid. Nothing more.

[Negrodamus]

I'll ignore the insults and personal attacks and focus on the substance of your post here. Derik Queen is not good enough to be the offensive engine on a contender. I mean you are all over Ace for his distribution weaknesses, meanwhile Queen has a putrid 0.79 Assist to Turnover ratio. Why so terrible if he's such a great offensive distributor?

Then factor in his inability to protect the rim or switch on D which are paramount for a modern big, and you have a losing archetype. His very peak upside case is someone like Domantas Sabonis, a guy you can never be a contender with. Basically a guy who puts up numbers on bad or mediocre teams. And that's the upside case.

Meanwhile, Sorber provides exactly what you need as a modern big, rim protection, ability to switch, and can finish on offense so he can play a complementary role alongside a real offensive engine.

Not an insult or personal attack; calling you "Deranged" would be a personal attack. Calling the narrative of me having an anti-Ace bias "stupid" is not me calling you stupid. Saying your arguments are "strawmen" and "dishonest" is not calling YOU dishonest. I suppose the bit about your reading comprehension could be interpreted as an insult, and I apologize if that was too harsh. Just wanted to clarify that.

I think the upside case is Alperen Sengun, who had a pretty decent first round in the playoffs. Not sure if Queen or Alperen will ever be a top 10 player in the league, but based on what I'm looking at on the big board, that's the highest level of talent I'm seeing in the general area.

I factor in (possibly too much) how well they finish out the season, which Queen ballooned his scoring output quite a bit while scaling back distribution. He's not the point guard for the team, but watching him, it's clear he has the chops and the stats do back it up (even if he's turnover prone at times). Turnovers can be a concern if it's egregious (part of the reason I'm a bit wary of Kasparas), but I don't really see it as prohibitive in the case of Queen.

I don't know if you in earnest want to hear more of my thoughts about Queen or if it's being used as a parallel argument to negate my argument against Ace, but I can expound more.

We go way back here, I always value your opinion. I just believe Queen is a losing archetype no matter how much of his potential he fulfills.

The only player of that archetype who is a true superstar and offensive engine for a contender is Nikola Jokic. Guys like Sengun, Sabonis, etc. will never win titles.

Kevin Love fits snugly into this archetype, but that's neither here nor there.

[Stanford]

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/

New Ringer big board:

1. Flagg
2. Harper.
3. Edgecombe
4. Tre
5. Knueppel
6. Bailey
7. Carter Bryant
8. Queen
9. Maluach
10. Fears

Just shows they’re stupid. Nothing more.

Must be nice to know the fate of these players before they step on the court, brother!

[Black Mage]

Read on Twitter

Can't believe he's returning to college. They must be giving him an obscene amount of money.

He's gonna regret that if he tries to come out next year.