Ed Stefanski's Draft Track Record

SouthJersey · Post #81 » by **SouthJersey** » Thu Jun 5, 2008 1:32 am

Well lets put it this way. Tom Heckert is the GM of the Eagles, but do you think he has any power over Andy Reid?

Post #82 » by **dbodner** » Thu Jun 5, 2008 2:16 am

Sixersftw wrote:or it could be career threatening surgery? naw couldn't have been that.

Edit: wait, wait. Jason Kidd was actually holding together kenyon martins knees through telekinesis

Not to mention Martin came into NJ BEFORE Kidd did.

psykosacul · Post #83 » by **psykosacul** » Thu Jun 5, 2008 2:29 am

this thread is one of the most dramatic examples of not admitting the flaw in ones own argument ive ever seen on this site.

Post #84 » by **dbodner** » Thu Jun 5, 2008 2:34 am

Also worth mentioning the Martin averaged 15.5 ppg his first year in Denver before the injury.

Not that you should like facts get in the way of your argument.

(BTW, want to look up Richard Jefferson's career stats without Kidd?).

Not that you'd give Stefanski credit for Jefferson anyway, since the Nets "drafted" Eddie Griffin.

SendEm · Post #85 » by **SendEm** » Thu Jun 5, 2008 2:37 am

SouthJersey wrote:Well lets put it this way. Tom Heckert is the GM of the Eagles, but do you think he has any power over Andy Reid?

NOT the same professional sport. Try again.

Sixersftw · Post #86 » by **Sixersftw** » Thu Jun 5, 2008 2:56 am

dbodner wrote:Also worth mentioning the Martin averaged 15.5 ppg his first year in Denver before the injury.

Not that you should like facts get in the way of your argument.

(BTW, want to look up Richard Jefferson's career stats without Kidd?).

Not that you'd give Stefanski credit for Jefferson anyway, since the Nets "drafted" Eddie Griffin.

what have i told you about that damn logic!

psykosacul · Post #87 » by **psykosacul** » Thu Jun 5, 2008 3:00 am

send em. i was wondering if you would respond to my point that even if you count the 06 draft as "bad" i believe they went 4good/4bad in eight drafts. how is that so terrible considering the picks they had to work with?

SendEm · Post #88 » by **SendEm** » Thu Jun 5, 2008 3:22 am

psykosacul wrote:send em. i was wondering if you would respond to my point that even if you count the 06 draft as "bad" i believe they went 4good/4bad in eight drafts. how is that so terrible considering the picks they had to work with?

List those 4 "good drafts" again.

psykosacul · Post #89 » by **psykosacul** » Thu Jun 5, 2008 3:35 am

2000: kenyon martin
2001: trade for jefferson and two other picks
2002: krstic
2007: sean williams

SendEm · Post #90 » by **SendEm** » Thu Jun 5, 2008 4:11 am

psykosacul wrote:2000: kenyon martin
2001: trade for jefferson and two other picks
2002: krstic
2007: sean williams

How has Krstic been a quality starter? He's been injured correct? He hasn't strung together any entire seasons correct? Staying healthy and playing consistently is the BASIS of how a player is judged.

Sean Williams teammates complained about him not bringing it every night and not remaining focused throughout games. Vince Carter and RJ had talks with him. He didn't even have a good statistical year. Initially I said that it was too early to rate him but since you want to bring him up then I am going to look at him like a veteran player, he could be the worst on ball low post defender in the entire NBA. He's a good weakside shotblocker, terrible defender and position rebounder. With hindsight if the 2007 draft were done over he wouldn't have risen his stock off of his own play his rookie season. All he accomplished was show the NBA that the NETS didn't reach for him like people claimed even though some people perceived him as "falling" in the draft. The bad play of Acie Law and Corey Brewer might have changed the draft order but NOT Shawn Williams rookie contribution. Sean Williams may very shortly NOT be the best NBA player that the NETS had a chance to draft in 2007. Rudy Fernandez, Arron Afflalo, Jason Smith and Marc Gasol were all still on the board. We'll find out...

psykosacul · Post #91 » by **psykosacul** » Thu Jun 5, 2008 4:37 am

SendEm wrote:
How has Krstic been a quality starter? He's been injured correct? He hasn't strung together any entire seasons correct? Staying healthy and playing consistently is the BASIS of how a player is judged.

Sean Williams teammates complained about him not bringing it every night and not remaining focused throughout games. Vince Carter and RJ had talks with him. He didn't even have a good statistical year. Initially I said that it was too early to rate him but since you want to bring him up then I am going to look at him like a veteran player, he could be the worst on ball low post defender in the entire NBA. He's a good weakside shotblocker, terrible defender and position rebounder. With hindsight if the 2007 draft were done over he wouldn't have risen his stock off of his own play his rookie season. All he accomplished was show the NBA that the NETS didn't reach for him like people claimed even though some people perceived him as "falling" in the draft. The bad play of Acie Law and Corey Brewer might have changed the draft order but NOT Shawn Williams rookie contribution. Sean Williams may very shortly NOT be the best NBA player that the NETS had a chance to draft in 2007. Rudy Fernandez, Arron Afflalo, Jason Smith and Marc Gasol were all still on the board. We'll find out...

1. first of all, i never said he was a quality started. second of all, its not realistic to say a player taken in the early 20s has to be an nba starter to be a successful pick.
third, i think there are many other things on which to judge a player, but to me thats not even the point. its not about whether krstic turned out to be ok. its about whether the GM made the right pick at that moment in the draft.

if oden never plays a minute in the nba because of his injuries, was that a terrible pick by the blazers? no. its still what they should have done. so there was nothing wrong with krstic being taken where he was despite his injury problems.

2. in my opinion judging the moves a GM makes is not about hindsight. you can certainly say... the picks did or did not work out after the fact. but if you want to question the decision to draft that player you have to judge what happened during that moment of the draft. the nets used a late teens pick to draft an nba quality talent at a position of need for them. sean williams was a solid pick at that moment of the draft. his character issues were a risk, but at 17, its a textbook time to take a risk on a big time physical talent, because you cant expect much from the pick anyway. so you either play it safe with a guy who has a 75% chance of being an 8th man for his entire career, or you try to hit it big.

i think the main point of contention people have with your claims is that you are only pointing to the end result. you are not taking into account the decisions that were made at the time of the draft. the nets moves when reviewed in the context of when they happened, seem to be pretty good decisions. so what should make us think that ed will make a bad decision during this years draft?

if your only claim is that his picks did not turn the franchise into a contender then you are correct. but if you are saying stefanski made bad draft decisions, i dont agree at all.

SendEm · Post #92 » by **SendEm** » Thu Jun 5, 2008 5:05 am

psykosacul I don't rationalize the BAD decisions of other people who are PAID to make those decisions. As a spectator I CRITICIZE them for making those bad decisions and APPLAUD them when they do well. Drafting Krstic over Carlos Boozer was a BAD decision now wasn't it? This is the guy that we now have at GM and there are MANY MANY MANY MANY MANY more examples of where "Fast" Eddie and the Nets dropped the ball and this is the reason why they don't have any starters over there that they drafted.

SouthJersey · Post #93 » by **SouthJersey** » Thu Jun 5, 2008 1:55 pm

SendEm wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

NOT the same professional sport. Try again.

Are you serious? It doesnt matter if its a different sport or a different type of job, there are people who are given job titles who do not fully carry out the responsibility of that job. It's done as a way to appear that someone doesnt have total control, when they really do.

Again, the Nets really slipped when they let Byron Scott and Eddie Jordan leave. Was that Stephanski's fault?

Dedicated_76ers_fan · Post #94 » by **Dedicated_76ers_fan** » Thu Jun 5, 2008 2:23 pm

Actually Eddie Jordan is a TERRIBLE nba coach gifted with a terrific roster. Please don't tell me you don't remember all those years they sucked?

SouthJersey · Post #95 » by **SouthJersey** » Thu Jun 5, 2008 2:35 pm

His first year the team sucked, but the team sucked lonnnng before that. He's gotten the Wiz into the playoffs the last 4 years. What years are you referring to that he was terrible?

Dedicated_76ers_fan · Post #96 » by **Dedicated_76ers_fan** » Thu Jun 5, 2008 2:50 pm

I believe Eddie Jordan had a sub-500 record for most of his early career as a head coach. And the last 4 years. Caron Butler beasting, with Tawn and Agent 0 there. That had to be at least a playoff team.

I think Washington needs to resign Jamison/Gilbert and trade Jamison for a shotblocking C.

ckchen · Post #97 » by **ckchen** » Thu Jun 5, 2008 4:18 pm

SendEm wrote:Drafting Krstic over Carlos Boozer was a BAD decision now wasn't it?

This statement right here is a perfect example why people give your arguments ZERO credibility.

1. Every single team in the first round passed on Boozer, not just the Nets.
2. The Nets, at the team in 2002, had Kenyon Martin entrenched at PF. And their greatest need was a legit C. Your statement and logic seems to think that they should have been able to magically predict that Kenyon Martin would be injured and traded in the next two years and therefore have the knowledge and foresight to draft Boozer.

Ridiculous. You're condemning a GM for basically not having power to apparently gaze into a crystal ball and predict things completely out of his control, several years down the line, while simultaneously ignoring the composition of his entire roster, just so they pick the best player to come out of the draft.

Johnny Broad-Street · Post #98 » by **Johnny Broad-Street** » Thu Jun 5, 2008 4:31 pm

I heard a rumor that SendEm used to be a professor of Revisionist History at Widener....

....but it may have been Rider...I can't remember

SendEm · Post #99 » by **SendEm** » Thu Jun 5, 2008 4:44 pm

ckchen wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

This statement right here is a perfect example why people give your arguments ZERO credibility.

1. Every single team in the first round passed on Boozer, not just the Nets.
2. The Nets, at the team in 2002, had Kenyon Martin entrenched at PF. And their greatest need was a legit C. Your statement and logic seems to think that they should have been able to magically predict that Kenyon Martin would be injured and traded in the next two years and therefore have the knowledge and foresight to draft Boozer.

Ridiculous. You're condemning a GM for basically not having power to apparently gaze into a crystal ball and predict things completely out of his control, several years down the line, while simultaneously ignoring the composition of his entire roster, just so they pick the best player to come out of the draft.

You made my statement into something that it was not. I have been saying all along that Stefanski has trouble identifying quality NBA starters in the draft. Drafting Krstic over Boozer was just another example of many many many many examples where "Fast" Eddie selected a player who is not a quality NBA starter over a player(s) that would have kept the team in contention TODAY instead of having to eventually make that Vince Carter trade out of desperation even though they didn't give up anything for him.

Again the sentiment of "well everyone else is doing it" has reared its ugly head again. I'm not the type to jump off of a bridge because everyone else is doing it. :noway:

I'm not the type to excuse a GM that CONTINUOUSLY passes on gems in the draft in favor of players that are not good enough to play in the NBA just because other teams also passed on that player. AT LEAST draft a quality player when you pass over these gems that are better. Stefanski favors the GARBAGE that gets rejected from the NBA. We have NO CHANCE at ever drafting the gems with him as the GM. We have NO CHANCE at ever signing the little known free agent gems with him as GM. They did NOTHING over there in NJ in regards to acquiring talent.

GM's are PAID to envision what players and team chemistry will be down the line. Stefanski did a TERRIBLE job at keeping NJ a quality team. Jason Kidd did everything for that team. They are like the 3 stooges out there in New Jersey's front office without the play of Jason Kidd on the court.

noone · Post #100 » by **noone** » Thu Jun 5, 2008 5:08 pm

Why don't you do us a favor and rank all the GM's in the league based on drafting abilities. Maybe that'll help knock some sense into you. After you see that 29 other GMs also passed on Boozer, 29 other GMs also passed on Arenas, etc, you'll see that no GM is perfect and you can't hold those 'mistakes' over Ed's head when you consider all the circumstances. And no matter how much you pout and whine, I guarantee you won't find a single GM that hasn't made the same or similar 'mistakes' as Ed.