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The Legend of Joel Embiid

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Re: The Legend of Joel Embiid 

Post#801 » by 76ciology » Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:30 am

Simmons25 wrote:
76ciology wrote:Conspiracy theory..

Biid doesn't like Ben's style of play. He likes playing the style he did with the Nets game.

"We've got to do a better job of finding me in the post."

My take is again.. In this superteam era, you need to be able to find the right balance. And in this case, I still prefer Ben running the first unit. Kicking out to open shooters, including Biid. If Biid's shooting is off, then let Biid play as a roll man off Ben/Biid two man game.

Biid should then take charge AT THE POST, when he plays without Ben. Most times with the 2nd-3rd unit (with Fultz and Saric)


I actually agree with this. Ironically that Nets game was probably the quietest game Simmons has had so far because the ball was in Embiid's hands.

JoJo's game style is very ISO heavy, clear out 1 side and let me go 1 on 1. He had to do that last year because we had no other scorers for him to play with other than Ilyasova who sat on the 3 point line.

I'm not entirely against Embiid playing this way and having the ball most times as he can score against anyone... but I have a problem with Joel getting it at the 3 point line and thinking he is a point guard and trying to dribble it up. He needs it in the post 70% of the time.

Joel also has to learn to make the right decision when it comes to shooting and passing. Too many times already this season I have seen him making a choice to shoot it and burning teammates who are wide open. All that is going to achieve is stagnation on offense. Teammates are going to give up making cuts and trying to get open if Joel has the ball and they know he isn't going to pass it.


At the right context, Biid's heavy iso play is good. Notice how we go to him whenever we need points in crunch time.

A Biid offense usually ends up with a challenged shot attempt. While with a Ben offense, it usually opens with a shot with quality look (less to none challenged). And even without Ben last season, Biid wasn't that much of a plus player on offense.
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Re: The Legend of Joel Embiid 

Post#802 » by Kolkmania » Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:38 am

It might be good for developmental reasons but Joel Embiid isn't a positive contributor on the offensive end thus far. He's extremely turnover prone, kills the flow within the offense by pump faking three point shots every single possession and he ISO's a lot. I don't mind the latter at times if we need to catch a breath or in late clock situations, but Joel has to learn how to play within an offense. Same goes for Ben by the way, who should be initiating from the high post at times and set screens to roll to the rim.

But with Joel, Dario and Markelle missing so much time in the preseason we can't expect an efficient and fluent offense with so many young and new pieces.
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Re: The Legend of Joel Embiid 

Post#803 » by Simmons25 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:44 am

76ciology wrote:At the right context, Biid's heavy iso play is good. Notice how we go to him whenever we need points in crunch time.

A Biid offense usually ends up with a challenged shot attempt. While with a Ben offense, it usually opens with a shot with quality look (less to none challenged). And even without Ben last season, Biid wasn't that much of a plus player on offense.


I think if the shot clock is down to 10 or like you said we need a score Joel is the perfect guy to clear out space and give the ball too.

My issue with him is when he comes up the court 7 seconds into a shot clock and jacks up a 3 with literally no ball movement. Has to cut that out of his game. He needs to do more of what he did the other day when he was looking to post up Ben in the post... which collapsed Joel's defender and Joel shot the 3 with his feet set once he got that extra space. They are good shots and the type of shots I want him to take.
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Re: The Legend of Joel Embiid 

Post#804 » by 76ciology » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:10 pm

Simmons25 wrote:
76ciology wrote:At the right context, Biid's heavy iso play is good. Notice how we go to him whenever we need points in crunch time.

A Biid offense usually ends up with a challenged shot attempt. While with a Ben offense, it usually opens with a shot with quality look (less to none challenged). And even without Ben last season, Biid wasn't that much of a plus player on offense.


I think if the shot clock is down to 10 or like you said we need a score Joel is the perfect guy to clear out space and give the ball too.

My issue with him is when he comes up the court 7 seconds into a shot clock and jacks up a 3 with literally no ball movement. Has to cut that out of his game. He needs to do more of what he did the other day when he was looking to post up Ben in the post... which collapsed Joel's defender and Joel shot the 3 with his feet set once he got that extra space. They are good shots and the type of shots I want him to take.


If he's a shooter, we need to let him take it. Its the criticisms and self doubt that is making him indecisive when he's attacking close outs.

If he's really a shooter, this is a step back and three steps forward move IMO. Let him be confident and force opposing D to step out to let Ben attack the rim with less challenged defense

You can't just think about Embiid. You need to consider the entire ecosystem on offense.
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Re: The Legend of Joel Embiid 

Post#805 » by CoreyGallagher » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:43 am

Woah...
With Embiid - 101.4 ORtg, 91.5 DRtg... +9.9 net
Without Embiid - 90.3 ORtg, 113.2 DRtg... -22.9 net

Total net difference is 32.8 points per 100 possessions.
CoreyGallagher wrote:I hope the Cavs don't take Embiid because then we'll take Embiid.
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Re: The Legend of Joel Embiid 

Post#806 » by eyeatoma » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:44 am

4 games... Obviously he has a huge impact which I'm not doubting. I think we'll get a more accurate picture without as much variance after 20-30 games...
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Re: The Legend of Joel Embiid 

Post#807 » by CoreyGallagher » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:51 am

Yeah, numbers will be skewed. For the time being we have Amir as his immediate back-up and Saric playing up when we need him to, but even last season he had a +11.1 net difference.

Just dominates games.
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Re: The Legend of Joel Embiid 

Post#808 » by ValvPiti » Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:32 pm

Was a monster last game. Imagine what he will do when he is in actual good shape! Damn I love to watch him in the post, I have the feeling he will score all the time. Only other player I have that feeling about is KD.
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Re: The Legend of Joel Embiid 

Post#809 » by Ericb5 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:00 pm

CoreyGallagher wrote:Woah...
With Embiid - 101.4 ORtg, 91.5 DRtg... +9.9 net
Without Embiid - 90.3 ORtg, 113.2 DRtg... -22.9 net

Total net difference is 32.8 points per 100 possessions.


It's only been 3 games, but let's not forget that after the first 2 of them there were posters on here arguing that Embiid was slow, lumbering, falling in love with his jumper, selfish, etc...

That was 2 of the 3 games that produced these startling on/off numbers. The point is that he was dominant the whole time, despite having a poor shooting night in the second game.
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Re: The Legend of Joel Embiid 

Post#810 » by smittybanton » Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:04 pm

I like that Joel can hit the trail three. I like that he can pick and pop from back there.

However, I do not like him having the rock at the three point line being asked to create off the dribble while everyone else stands and watches.

He has a one dribble move that gets him to about the free throw line.

But he is not comfortable yet with the second dribble. And he also has to gain better "depth perception" with respect to the basket. Put simply, he jumps to close to the hoop, as if he doesn't know how tall he is or far he can jump.

When he jumps too close to it, he lands awkwardly and I'm sure I'm not the only one who gets scared.

But, when he eventually learns he can leap further from it, that will open up more offensive moves for him. When he understands he can basically lay the ball up off of a one footed jump from the free throw line, maybe then those isolation forays will be more fluid and successful.

I get that we want to develop his face-up game, that back to the basket post play is inefficient because of the "shaq-rules" that sill remain. But right now, he looks totally comfortable and absolutely scary at fifteen feet, not twenty four.
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Re: The Legend of Joel Embiid 

Post#811 » by Negrodamus » Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:05 pm

Don't hear this as a gripe I have with Embiid, because I have very few, but I think he should be averaging at least 3-4 rebounds per game. He is the most physically imposing big man in the game with a wingspan that allows him to essentially grab the rim flat footed and he has incredible agility and reactions. Any shot that goes up with him under the rim should easily get gobbled up by him. I don't know if Simmons's rebounding ability is the reason why he's not averaging 15 rpg.
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Re: The Legend of Joel Embiid 

Post#812 » by Ericb5 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:22 pm

Negrodamus wrote:Don't hear this as a gripe I have with Embiid, because I have very few, but I think he should be averaging at least 3-4 rebounds per game. He is the most physically imposing big man in the game with a wingspan that allows him to essentially grab the rim flat footed and he has incredible agility and reactions. Any shot that goes up with him under the rim should easily get gobbled up by him. I don't know if Simmons's rebounding ability is the reason why he's not averaging 15 rpg.



The biggest reason that he isn't averaging 15 rebounds a game is that he isn't playing enough minutes. He was still averaging 13.5 going into last game where he was playing one of the best rebounders in the league. I love watching Embiid while the ball is in the air, and how he positions himself for rebounds. He made a concerted effort to keep Drummond off the offensive glass yesterday, and was often focused purely on dealing with Drummond while the ball was in the air.

Drummond eats up rebounders that are just watching the ball while it is in the air.
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Re: The Legend of Joel Embiid 

Post#813 » by 76ciology » Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:25 pm

Negrodamus wrote:Don't hear this as a gripe I have with Embiid, because I have very few, but I think he should be averaging at least 3-4 rebounds per game. He is the most physically imposing big man in the game with a wingspan that allows him to essentially grab the rim flat footed and he has incredible agility and reactions. Any shot that goes up with him under the rim should easily get gobbled up by him. I don't know if Simmons's rebounding ability is the reason why he's not averaging 15 rpg.


My guess is lack of experience and lack of conditioning. rebounding has an art to it and takes a lot of motor. Case in point is reggie evans
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Re: The Legend of Joel Embiid 

Post#814 » by ValvPiti » Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:07 pm

I like the trash talking after trashing Drummond on court, thats how it should be young man!
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Re: The Legend of Joel Embiid 

Post#815 » by Negrodamus » Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:16 pm

I need some Draymond vs Embiid trash talking in my life. Those two will be fun this year... in the NBA Finals.
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Re: The Legend of Joel Embiid 

Post#816 » by CoreyGallagher » Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:14 am

Averaging 20 and 10, in 27 minutes.
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Re: The Legend of Joel Embiid 

Post#817 » by Unbreakable99 » Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:17 pm

CoreyGallagher wrote:Averaging 20 and 10, in 27 minutes.


Are you telling me we now have two players who can roll out of bed and give us 20 and 10? Lol.
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Re: The Legend of Joel Embiid 

Post#818 » by KrazySixersD » Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:55 pm

CoreyGallagher wrote:Woah...
With Embiid - 101.4 ORtg, 91.5 DRtg... +9.9 net
Without Embiid - 90.3 ORtg, 113.2 DRtg... -22.9 net

Total net difference is 32.8 points per 100 possessions.


which is why without a doubt, embiid is our best and most important player, and it legit is not even close

This guy should be getting as many touches and shots as possible when he is in
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Re: The Legend of Joel Embiid 

Post#819 » by CoreyGallagher » Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:13 pm

Which he was the last two games... until 3 and half minutes, which everyone agrees that he should have continued to.
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Re: The Legend of Joel Embiid 

Post#820 » by kingofthecourt67 » Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:45 pm

His numbers look good but watching the number of boneheaded plays certainly leaves a lot to be desired. He's obviously a smart guy, so I expect him to cut it out soon which will hopefully allow us to take the next step (i.e. a win streak). I will say, I'm a little disconcerted by his trouble in the post. Needs to develop a hook and drop step.

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