NBA General Discussion: 2025 Offseason

[76ciology]

I think the disdain toward Tatum stems from the gap between his individual greatness and the greatness of his team. The Celtics are arguably the closest thing to a perfect team in today’s era, while Tatum himself isn’t on the same level as players like SGA or Jokic.

It’s not that Tatum isn’t a great player, it’s that his team is so close to flawless, it highlights the difference even more.

Celts shot 15 out of 60 from 3 and they just lose to a very good team by 3 points. That’s how good their team is.

[76ciology]

An inexperienced team probably would’ve gotten blown out by the Thunder, especially early on and in the fourth when Jokic got hit with a flagrant 1 and the Thunder had a 14 pt lead.

But the Nuggets have Jokic, and he’s on that GOAT level. He and the whole team knew it, so they stayed calm and just chipped away at the lead, little by little.

The Thunder might have more talent, but there’s a real gap in terms of composure and resilience. The Nuggets’ ability to fight through the stretch is on another level. I just didn’t think the Thunder had that same stamina down the stretch.

[76ciology]

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[Mik317]

naw I think it was just bad coaching to foul and do so that quickly.

there was a possession with Jokic off the floor and no time out to get him back on the floor...they could have forced the Nuggets to play without him down 3.

bad coaching

[76ciology]

Nuggets winning the championship would increase the trade demand for Embiid.

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

Nuggets winning the championship would increase the trade demand for Embiid.

I don't think that it would. Jokic does things that Embiid just can't do. Mainly rebounding, court awareness, and passing. Jokic might even be the better defensive player at this point. Embiid has a tough road ahead of him. If a team trades for him, it'll be a team that doesn't need him to be a focal point in the postseason.

[mjkvol]

naw I think it was just bad coaching to foul and do so that quickly.

there was a possession with Jokic off the floor and no time out to get him back on the floor...they could have forced the Nuggets to play without him down 3.

bad coaching

Very true on the non-Jokic possession, a big coaching error, but if Holmgren hits the FT's the Thunder still likely win. Not sure why they fouled so quickly, though.

That's a rule that needs to be somehow changed, as they made the last 15 seconds last an eternity with the parade of FT's

[mjkvol]

I think the disdain toward Tatum stems from the gap between his individual greatness and the greatness of his team. The Celtics are arguably the closest thing to a perfect team in today’s era, while Tatum himself isn’t on the same level as players like SGA or Jokic.

This.

My take was a bit harsh, but it was based on exactly what you said - Tatum isn't carrying a lesser team to a championship the way a Jokic has or an SGA or Edwards someday might. He's a very good player on a perfectly built team for today's game.

[76ciology]

Nuggets winning the championship would increase the trade demand for Embiid.

I don't think that it would. Jokic does things that Embiid just can't do. Mainly rebounding, court awareness, and passing. Jokic might even be the better defensive player at this point. Embiid has a tough road ahead of him. If a team trades for him, it'll be a team that doesn't need him to be a focal point in the postseason.

Not in the sense of Embiid trying to outplay Jokic individually, but more about slowing him down, similar to the approach Team USA took against him during the Olympics.

[Negrodamus]

Nuggets winning the championship would increase the trade demand for Embiid.

I don't think that it would. Jokic does things that Embiid just can't do. Mainly rebounding, court awareness, and passing. Jokic might even be the better defensive player at this point. Embiid has a tough road ahead of him. If a team trades for him, it'll be a team that doesn't need him to be a focal point in the postseason.

And, arguably most important, Jokic is available to play.

[Jailblazers7]

My disdain toward Tatum is because of his play style. Dude looks like a walking mismatch but his entire offensive repertoire is step back 3s and push offs using his right arm.

It’s infuriating to see such a talented player demonstrate no creativity.

[Zumramania]

Nuggets winning the championship would increase the trade demand for Embiid.

I don't think that it would. Jokic does things that Embiid just can't do. Mainly rebounding, court awareness, and passing. Jokic might even be the better defensive player at this point. Embiid has a tough road ahead of him. If a team trades for him, it'll be a team that doesn't need him to be a focal point in the postseason.

And, arguably most important, Jokic is available to play.

A hard pill to swallow is that he is just a smarter player than Embiid. It is no coincidence that a big man like Jokic is so injury free. He developed/adapted his playing style to conserve energy and make as little reckless plays as possible. He knows how to pick his battles because as a big man you just cannot go 100% all the time. Of course the fact that he is a passing big man helps, but he is also a great rebounder without spending that much energy on it. It is now maybe too late, but if Embiid ever gets to the court again in something resembling playing form he should take notes. One just cannot be 300 pound injury prone 7 footer and play like a wing.

[76ciology]

I don't think that it would. Jokic does things that Embiid just can't do. Mainly rebounding, court awareness, and passing. Jokic might even be the better defensive player at this point. Embiid has a tough road ahead of him. If a team trades for him, it'll be a team that doesn't need him to be a focal point in the postseason.

And, arguably most important, Jokic is available to play.

A hard pill to swallow is that he is just a smarter player than Embiid. It is no coincidence that a big man like Jokic is so injury free. He developed/adapted his playing style to conserve energy and make as little reckless plays as possible. He knows how to pick his battles because as a big man you just cannot go 100% all the time. Of course the fact that he is a passing big man helps, but he is also a great rebounder without spending that much energy on it. It is now maybe too late, but if Embiid ever gets to the court again in something resembling playing form he should take notes. One just cannot be 300 pound injury prone 7 footer and play like a wing.

In your opinion, do you think Embiid has high basketball IQ?

[the_process]

And, arguably most important, Jokic is available to play.

A hard pill to swallow is that he is just a smarter player than Embiid. It is no coincidence that a big man like Jokic is so injury free. He developed/adapted his playing style to conserve energy and make as little reckless plays as possible. He knows how to pick his battles because as a big man you just cannot go 100% all the time. Of course the fact that he is a passing big man helps, but he is also a great rebounder without spending that much energy on it. It is now maybe too late, but if Embiid ever gets to the court again in something resembling playing form he should take notes. One just cannot be 300 pound injury prone 7 footer and play like a wing.

In your opinion, do you think Embiid has high basketball IQ?

IMO he does, but he is extremely stubborn as to his play style and highly resistant to change. He also does not have the best training and/or eating habits.

AKA while you can know what the defense is doing, if you insist on being "The Man" and trying to dribble through triple teams... you're going to turn the ball over again and again and again.

[Jailblazers7]

The issue with Embiid is his processing speed is a bit slow, which gets amplified when he’s under pressure. I think his IQ is high (demonstrated by his ability to quarterback so many good defenses from the backline) but he doesn’t process the game fast enough with the ball in his hands.

[Negrodamus]

Embiid has an OK BBIQ. Defensively, when locked in, he's one of the best defenders in the league. On offense, he's one of the best mid range shooters in the league and is also insane at drawing fouls (in the regular season). His IQ isn't elite because he does the same tricks over and over again in the playoffs when the refs don't fall for it anymore. So he becomes this shell of an offensive player and is usually injured, so his defense is a step slow.

Ironically, he's the only one who really slows down Jokic, but we'll never see them go at it in the Finals unfortunately.

[76ciology]

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[Stanford]

Of course, the Daily RAPM Estimate (DRE).

[mksp]

Remember when Jokic vs. Embiid was a debate lol

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

And, arguably most important, Jokic is available to play.

A hard pill to swallow is that he is just a smarter player than Embiid. It is no coincidence that a big man like Jokic is so injury free. He developed/adapted his playing style to conserve energy and make as little reckless plays as possible. He knows how to pick his battles because as a big man you just cannot go 100% all the time. Of course the fact that he is a passing big man helps, but he is also a great rebounder without spending that much energy on it. It is now maybe too late, but if Embiid ever gets to the court again in something resembling playing form he should take notes. One just cannot be 300 pound injury prone 7 footer and play like a wing.

In your opinion, do you think Embiid has high basketball IQ?

I'll answer because I think this is a great question. I don't have a short answer. There are times when Embiid makes genius plays on the floor. There are other times where he makes Samuel Dalembert look like a savant. I think not having a consistently high basketball IQ has really hurt his game. He's his own worst enemy. We've talked for years about how he needs to tone it down on the highlight reel attempts. Flying out of bounds to block a shot in the third quarter when our team is up by 25 points against the Hornets. I mean, it's dip$hit plays like those that have caused him embarrassment and worse...Injuries. Three of his numerous playoff injuries were due to him acting like an a$$hole on the floor during the game. Once against Daniel Gafford which basically cost us later on against Atlanta, once in a blowout against the Raptors, he ends up taking an elbow to his eye, and another time against Claxton from Brooklyn in a series. Last year against New York he tried some off the glass dunk BS and landed awkwardly on his knee. He was ok, but really he wasn't. To me that's a significant sign of a guy that doesn't have a high IQ when it comes to the game of basketball. You have to have your body's well being in mind with your movements out there. He can't seem to do that. It's always his crashing to the floor which in turn causes us to hold our breath for fear of yet another injury. The effort from him has never been in question. It's his decision making that has always hindered him. The complete opposite can be said about Paul George. To me George is a genius out there. He sees what's going on, he knows what needs to happen, he's never in the wrong spot offensive or defensively, and yet the level of effort he gives is so half assed and lackadaisical that we have to create narratives as to why he's not going as hard as he could or should be.
Monday is going to be absolutely massive for us.