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The Sixerfan1976 Off-Season Thread (Update: Page 61)

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Re: The Sixerfan1976 Off-Season Thread (Update: Page 35) 

Post#821 » by Point-God » Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:52 pm

Brian Chapman wrote:
if ariza is any teams #1 or #2 option you will hate him, if he is your #4 or #5 option he can lead you to a championship




LOL @ a 4th or 5th option leading a team to a championship. :lol:
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Re: The Sixerfan1976 Off-Season Thread (Update: Page 35) 

Post#822 » by BringBackKorver » Sat Jul 17, 2010 11:33 pm

Brian Chapman wrote:ariza is 24 btw...everyone keeps saying he is a veteran...hes 24 people



Ariza is 25 btw...he's 25 person.
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Re: The Sixerfan1976 Off-Season Thread (Update: Page 35) 

Post#823 » by Krapinsky » Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:18 am

Brian Chapman wrote:wow 76 fans have no idea what they are talking about



My advice to you Mr. Chapman, would be to stick to your music career and leave basketball alone.

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Re: The Sixerfan1976 Off-Season Thread (Update: Page 35) 

Post#824 » by ExplosionsInDaSky » Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:28 am

[quote="Point-God".


Ariza has a serious long term issue with his foot. That reduces his value. He also hasn't made a shot since jumping out of Kobe's jock strap.


Even an armchair athlete hero like yourself should know that you last statement is false. Ariza made 66 threes in his two years with the Lakers and 136 three last year as a Rocket. Thats more than double in the two years he played with Kobe Bryant. His three point percentage also increased to 33% while as a Laker he averaged around 30% for the two years he was there. Overall Ariza made 394 total field goals last season compared to the 333 he made in two years as a Laker. His rebounds, assists, and steals per game were all at a career high as well last season. Now i'm no way saying that Ariza is a great player but I think he's pretty good and I honestly just fail to see any of the logic you are trying to argue with here about him.
Your statement based on actual facts is totally utterly and completely false and I disagree with you vehemently on everything you have said.
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Re: The Sixerfan1976 Off-Season Thread (Update: Page 35) 

Post#825 » by PhillyFan » Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:51 am

ExplosionsInDaSky wrote:
[quote="Point-God".


Ariza has a serious long term issue with his foot. That reduces his value. He also hasn't made a shot since jumping out of Kobe's jock strap.


Even an armchair athlete hero like yourself should know that you last statement is false. Ariza made 66 threes in his two years with the Lakers and 136 three last year as a Rocket. Thats more than double in the two years he played with Kobe Bryant. His three point percentage also increased to 33% while as a Laker he averaged around 30% for the two years he was there. Overall Ariza made 394 total field goals last season compared to the 333 he made in two years as a Laker.


First, I don't mind Ariza's game at all and think he's a decent player.

But your argument here is quite flawed.

Yes, he made 136 threes last year as a Rocket, but he also took 407 attempts (compared to 191 he took the year before with the Lakers). FG attempts was 999, compared to 596 while he was with Lakers. When you take these into account, his shooting % actually dropped last year with the Rockets. Of course, before Kevin Martin was brought to the team, Ariza was used as their #1 scoring option and these stats can be attributed to this.

I would argue Ariza had inflated stats with a team that had limited scoring options besides Brooks and Martin.
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Re: The Sixerfan1976 Off-Season Thread (Update: Page 35) 

Post#826 » by dbodner » Sun Jul 18, 2010 2:06 am

I would argue Ariza had inflated stats with a team that had limited scoring options besides Brooks and Martin.


I don't even think that's up for debate. He was one of the least efficient high usage players in the league.
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Re: The Sixerfan1976 Off-Season Thread (Update: Page 35) 

Post#827 » by cheolee » Sun Jul 18, 2010 2:56 am

This is not a bash against either organization or their fans... it is just my perspective based on reading some of the posts on the current thread.

Those who think that Ariza is overrated do not understand the intricacies of the game. Ariza's best attribute is that he can play his best when paired next to a ball dominant wing. He is one of the better complementary players in the league and offers his services for a modest MLE type of deal.
He was given the opportunity to "be the man" last year in Houston, but proved to be not that type of player, and thus the drastic decrease in efficiency until the arrival of K. Martin.

Iggy, although a superior talent, is pretty much the same type of player. Over the last few years, the experiment with him leading the Sixers proved that he is not the lead man nor someone you can build a team around. In addition, Iggy seems to play his best when he has the ball in his hands, otherwise his skills get nerfed. The allure of Ariza is that he provides most of the traits that Iggy can provide at a much cheaper rate and comes with the added bonus of a decent 3 point shot. If you are convinced that there is a world of difference between the two players, may I add as a reminder that an Ariza led team (He was a top 3 player for Hou) went 42-40 in the west. An Iggy led team, well, 27-55.

A Iggy + filler for Ariza + young talent + expiring is a trade that makes sense for both clubs. Philly wants to build around Turner and Jrue. They have no need to pay Iggy near max level salary while the rest of team is still going through growing pangs. Houston is going all in this season. They might feel that Iggy can push them over the top to an already competitive roster. So, let us make a reasonable trade proposal and move on.
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Re: The Sixerfan1976 Off-Season Thread (Update: Page 35) 

Post#828 » by hasmat » Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:32 am

may I add as a reminder that an Ariza led team (He was a top 3 player for Hou) went 42-40 in the west. An Iggy led team, well, 27-55.


You forgot to mention that Houston has Rick Adleman and the 6ers had Eddie Jordan, i guess you thank they are also comparable
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Re: The Sixerfan1976 Off-Season Thread (Update: Page 35) 

Post#829 » by cheolee » Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:46 am

hasmat wrote:
may I add as a reminder that an Ariza led team (He was a top 3 player for Hou) went 42-40 in the west. An Iggy led team, well, 27-55.


You forgot to mention that Houston has Rick Adleman and the 6ers had Eddie Jordan, i guess you thank they are also comparable



You think the difference of 15 wins in a tougher conference is all RIck>Eddie? I understand that he seemed like he didn't know what to do with rotations and which players to play but it's not like Jordan didn't have multiple 40+ win seasons with Wiz prior to bringing his services to Philly.

Ofcourse there are many other factors involved in wins/losses. But the simplest way to look at it is this: More wins = better team. Better team = better players + chemistry + coach + etc. Therefore, all the teams that have poor records should really reflect on their players and wonder if they are overestimating their worth.
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Re: The Sixerfan1976 Off-Season Thread (Update: Page 35) 

Post#830 » by ojr107 » Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:06 am

Cheolee, if his 3 point shot is decent, why did he only shoot 33 percent last year and 32 percent playing with Kobe?
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Re: The Sixerfan1976 Off-Season Thread (Update: Page 35) 

Post#831 » by cheolee » Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:15 am

Ariza is a decent spot up shooter. His horrid 3 point % comes from when he tries to take them off the dribble. If it is a kickout situation where his feet are set then I can assure you that his shot is solid.
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Re: The Sixerfan1976 Off-Season Thread (Update: Page 35) 

Post#832 » by dbodner » Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:25 am

cheolee wrote:Ariza is a decent spot up shooter. His horrid 3 point % comes from when he tries to take them off the dribble. If it is a kickout situation where his feet are set then I can assure you that his shot is solid.


He shot 34.7% on catch and shoot jumpers last year. I guess that qualifies as decent, but not exactly something I would write home about. he was actually significantly worse than Iguodala, who shot a much better percentage (39.4%).
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Re: The Sixerfan1976 Off-Season Thread (Update: Page 35) 

Post#833 » by KrazySixersD » Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:26 am

i want budinger back in the deal the more i think about it... anyone think he could be a starter at the 3 spot in a few years?
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Re: The Sixerfan1976 Off-Season Thread (Update: Page 35) 

Post#834 » by Krapinsky » Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:37 am

dbodner wrote:
cheolee wrote:Ariza is a decent spot up shooter. His horrid 3 point % comes from when he tries to take them off the dribble. If it is a kickout situation where his feet are set then I can assure you that his shot is solid.


He shot 34.7% on catch and shoot jumpers last year. I guess that qualifies as decent, but not exactly something I would write home about. he was actually significantly worse than Iguodala, who shot a much better percentage (39.4%).


I absolutely love it when this happens.
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Re: The Sixerfan1976 Off-Season Thread (Update: Page 35) 

Post#835 » by Point-God » Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:00 am

ExplosionsInDaSky wrote:
[quote="Point-God".


Ariza has a serious long term issue with his foot. That reduces his value. He also hasn't made a shot since jumping out of Kobe's jock strap.


Even an armchair athlete hero like yourself should know that you last statement is false. Ariza made 66 threes in his two years with the Lakers and 136 three last year as a Rocket. Thats more than double in the two years he played with Kobe Bryant. His three point percentage also increased to 33% while as a Laker he averaged around 30% for the two years he was there. Overall Ariza made 394 total field goals last season compared to the 333 he made in two years as a Laker. His rebounds, assists, and steals per game were all at a career high as well last season. Now i'm no way saying that Ariza is a great player but I think he's pretty good and I honestly just fail to see any of the logic you are trying to argue with here about him.
Your statement based on actual facts is totally utterly and completely false and I disagree with you vehemently on everything you have said.


I'm certain that you were very proud of your post once you clicked the submit button... PhillyFan already elucidated much of what I intended to address and I'd like to thank PhillyFan for the effort. I also want to point out that there were 40 made three point field goals during the 2009 championship playoff run at a 47.6% clip that ExplosionsInDaSky completely overlooked when enumerating the "Ariza made 66 threes in his two years with the Lakers" figure. Thank you, and good night.
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Re: The Sixerfan1976 Off-Season Thread (Update: Page 35) 

Post#836 » by tisbee » Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:15 am

Rockets fan here.
Assuming there is an actual trade under discussion,not a garbled account of something from earlier,a couple of tweaks involving the players listed makes some sense.(Also Morey has not overpaid in his trades so far,don't look for him to start. Balance that w/he's the one asking,so he may have to ante up more that Rocket fans might want.)
Anyhow:
Jeffries for Nocioni.Noc can be traded by himself immediately,the salaries match,yet Jeffries expires at end of season,offering salary relief.
Hill,Ariza,Alexander Johnson,lower of 2012 Firsts for Iguodala.
Johnson has a non-guaranteed contract,is included solely to get to w/in 25% of Iguodala's salary,and can be waived immediately.
Ariza as a complemetary player is very,very good. Still young.
Hill is more hit-or-miss,but at a minimum looks to be 4rth rotation big.
Philly shaves some $3mil in payroll this yr,but far more importantly shaves $10mil+ off next yr,offering the possibility of up to a max contract FA(yeah,prob a lockout and new CBA,but being far under whatever cap happens will still be advantageous.)
There's the extra First,a $2mil or so TPE also.
Such a paired deal would end up being Ariza,Hill,a First and whatever FA(s) signed w/cap savings for Iguodala and Nocioni.
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Re: The Sixerfan1976 Off-Season Thread (Update: Page 35) 

Post#837 » by vandy0925 » Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:12 pm

In coming up with these various Iggy trade scenarios, I hope this board is keeping in mind the fact he's grossly overpaid with a contract that could prove particularly crippling under the next CBA. Ariza, on the other hand, is a relative bargain at MLE money, so you can forgot about getting him back from the Rockets. Honestly, Philly would be lucky to get a salary dump offer for Iggy, maybe a future 1st rounder included, and the team would be crazy not to jump at that kind of offer. Sorry to bring reality to this board, but the discussions here on what Iggy could get back are absolulely absurd. Let's put it this way - Isaiah Thomas as the Rockets GM wouldn't trade a package including Ariza and Hill for Iggy, let alone one of the shrewdist GMs in the league, Morey.
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Re: The Sixerfan1976 Off-Season Thread (Update: Page 35) 

Post#838 » by freshie2 » Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:18 pm

I think the salary issue has been addressed, and while iguodala is more highly paid than Ariza, he probably is paid around where he should be...about a top 40 player, about the top 40 salary wise.

Teams are calling about Iguodala, so there must be some interest outside of what is being posted here. Morey may be shrewd, but apparently he is interested.

Trading Iguodala is a tough call, but I personally like the longer term implications of the proposed deal. Ariza is not in Iguodala's class, but could be a nice fit as a third/fourth option at SF, and gives them cap relief which seems to drive many of the FO's decisions. The Sixers have roster decisions to make in the next few years, and this flexibility would come in handy as they assess the long term pieces of the roster (Thad, Speights, Hawes, Smith, etc). Adding Hill's potential further's my interest, but I'm not sure he'll every realize his potential.
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Re: The Sixerfan1976 Off-Season Thread (Update: Page 35) 

Post#839 » by ChuckS » Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:40 pm

I usually stay away from these trade "proposals" because I have found (almost) all of them have been bullcrap. It seems that almost everything that has actually gone down has been unexpected. I suspect that "we" leak some considerations to gauge the sense of fan outrage (or, I suppose, potential excitement).

The old adage says that whoever gets the best player wins the trade. That might not always be true if the "loser" can also get better, but I do not see that happening in these proposed exchanges with the Rockets. Unquestionably, at least in my opinion, Iguodala is better than Ariza. And I am not convinced any of the bigs being talked about are even as good as those we already have. I still remember us getting the next Kevin Garnett some years back. I just forget his name now.

Since Young expires, and I am not sure if we will keep him, I do not believe that even $10mil in cap space will be equal to the loss of both Iguodala and Young (necessary to be able to use the money on a significant free agent -- who is probably not going to want to come here anyway). In any event, I have been dreaming of the future for 4 decades. I would really appreciate a management team trying to win right now. I still believe that you do not do that by exchanging for worse players. In fact this idea might clearly point out the difference between Houston and the Sixers or, in general, between the mentality of those striving to be winners...and losers.

We really do not need another three worse than Andre. In fact the three spot is the least of our problems. (Some think it is the one and two, but I need to see something, or more, before I believe.) If we want to sacrifice our best player and strongest position, I would prefer it be for a competent center, proven to be able to help right now. These are not easy to get, however. If some others are just interested in "tanking" again, that's another matter. I do not care, as long as they are not disingenuous. I, personally, have already made up my mind on the wisdom of that.
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Re: The Sixerfan1976 Off-Season Thread (Update: Page 35) 

Post#840 » by DemandNotice598 » Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:09 pm

Brian Chapman wrote:wow 76 fans have no idea what they are talking about

i watched all 82 rocket games this year, ariza missed 0 games because of foot. he missed 2 weeks for a hip pointer

when he was asked to be the man, he was a turnover machine and rushed shots, when we got kevin martin, ariza took off.. he was able to feed off martin and brooks better, and do what he does best, intangibles, steals,defense,finishing breaks

if ariza is any teams #1 or #2 option you will hate him, if he is your #4 or #5 option he can lead you to a championship

as far as hill, he wasnt taught at a young age, so he will be a late bloomer, you see some games where his skill is unbelieveable. ...once he fine tunes and gets more polish he will be a stud. i like him more than patrick patterson and patterson is rated #6 in rookies from summer league...hill is better(just needs to be in right system)

if you give hill the ball and tell him to be "bosh" you wil be disapointed...if hill is ask to rebound,dunk,finish breaks, he is electrifying

i like hill more than brad miller, the only reason morey signed miller is because hill is asked about in trades as trade bait to try to upgrade the starters

ariza is asked about,brooks,hill....morey has said this a month ago

budinger, well his defense blows, he is overrated because he is white...as a white player he is slightly worse than mike miller....as a black player he blows. i like ariza waaaaaaay more than budinger

ariza is 24 btw...everyone keeps saying he is a veteran...hes 24 people

i actually hate this trade. i want to keep ariza as a 6th man,keep hill to backup scola.

id give you guys budinger,patterson,both knick picks 2011/2012 + rockets pick 2012 for iggy....thats PLENTY...

when amare being the only good player on knicks this year ,that pick is gold(randolph is injury prone)

and amare sucks without nash..that team is a joke...expect pick to be top 13...thats pretty good considering iggy has a MASSIVE contract for another 4 years and you guys need to save money.

btw, we almost took brand off your hands on draft night, but literally 1 hour before draft started you guys got cold feet. thanks alot. we really wanted cousins but nooooooooooo...

so, final conclusion, if you guys get ariza,budinger,hill,picks.then morey got punked.


who is this guy?? your way too caught up in your fantasy league, get lost.

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