Ben Simmons Trade Thread

[ProcessDoctor]

Who cares... Embiid might be out of the league by then.

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Legit nothing matters except tanking once Embiid's gone.

Tanking for what? All our picks will be gone.

Depends on how many FRPs we let go of. I think we can minimize that amount by reeling in a 3rd team who highly values Simmons but wouldn't be interested in Dame for themselves (ie Sacramento, Cleveland, Minnesota, Orlando?, Memphis?, Dallas?)

I trust Morey here. He could've overpaid for Harden, but held his ground. His trades to start getting us turned around last summer were great. If he thinks Dame is worth it, I trust he'll give appropriate value and not a penny more.

[FireMorey]

Imagine giving up more for Lillard than Harden. It’s why getting that done last year was so vital. Way more teams are going to be in the mix for Lillard than we’re for Harden.

[eyeatoma]

Really surprised at how many are down on Lillard. He's the best player after Harden. He's a top 6-9 player. Overall Harden is a better player, but Lillard is a better shooter and one of the most clutch players of all time. He also brings it during the playoffs unlike Harden. He's younger as well and has a game that will age better.

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[Murray_17]

Imagine giving up more for Lillard than Harden. It’s why getting that done last year was so vital. Way more teams are going to be in the mix for Lillard than we’re for Harden.

Majority of the contenders are hard capped and have absolutely no picks.

If Lillard ask for a trade, there are just a few number of realistic teams he will want to be traded to.

The Harden trade never was gonna happen anyway because the Rockets were petty with Morey.

[FireMorey]

Imagine giving up more for Lillard than Harden. It’s why getting that done last year was so vital. Way more teams are going to be in the mix for Lillard than we’re for Harden.

Majority of the contenders are hard capped and have absolutely no picks.

If Lillard ask for a trade, there are just a few number of realistic teams he will want to be traded to.

The Harden trade never was gonna happen anyway because the Rockets were petty with Morey.

No one credible has ever reported that. It's always been a false narrative people just ran with.

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

So let's hang onto our picks and draft a creation core to help lighten his offensive load.

Maxey plus more dribble penetrators equals success.

That's a smarter, less riskier idea. My response earlier wasn't that I wanted us to trade for Lillard. I really don't, because our depth would be next to nothing and it wouldn't be enough to beat the Nets anyway. We would need a lot of luck on our side.
I'm fine with whatever Morey pulls off, but I like your idea. I like the idea of drafting backcourt players until we hit on one of them. I mean, Shake, Maxey, Joe (more of a shooter). Yeah...We can hope for internal growth. I certainly think you'll get it from Maxey alone. Shake...Not so much, but he's still young. Thing is, if you can move either Simmons or Harris for Sexton, or even a D'Lo do you do it? Nobody here likes Russell at all. If we are going to deal Simmons, I think we need to be firm on the asking price. If Shai is available, then THATS the player we need to go after. Not Lillard, because Lillard isn't going to be able to carry this team after Embiid starts to wear down. A player like Shai can carry us into another era and keep this team marketable and in the playoffs.
With that said, I don't think Simmons alone gets you Shai, but it's a lot closer than people think. Simmons straight across for Sexton is a loss for us imo, Simmons straight up for CJ is similar to Lillard. Won't cost near as much as Lillard would, but it's a temporary solution that may not be a solution at all. This goes back to the other option. If Shai isn't available or the price is too high, and we don't want Sexton or Cleveland is asking too much (possible based off of what their fan base thinks), then the only option is to hold on to Simmons and keep drafting scoring guards with our late picks. Hope and pray Maxey takes the next step. Sign a band aid player like Reggie Jackson. It's all very up in the air at this time. I'm really looking forward to the draft and what lies beyond that.

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

The Harden trade didn't happen because the asking price was insanely high for him. I think we wanted to hold on to Maxey because he was such an impressive player early on (and still is). We also wanted to see one more time what Ben and JoJo could do together for a season. We have our answer. Simmons will be as good as gone. In hindsight...I'm glad the Harden trade didn't happen.

[eyeatoma]

Imagine giving up more for Lillard than Harden. It’s why getting that done last year was so vital. Way more teams are going to be in the mix for Lillard than we’re for Harden.

Majority of the contenders are hard capped and have absolutely no picks.

If Lillard ask for a trade, there are just a few number of realistic teams he will want to be traded to.

The Harden trade never was gonna happen anyway because the Rockets were petty with Morey.

No one credible has ever reported that. It's always been a false narrative people just ran with.

I believe there were a couple of articles about it after the trade happened.

[Murray_17]

No one credible has ever reported that. It's always been a false narrative people just ran with.

Really?


https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/76ers-were-so-sure-of-james-harden-deal-that-ben-simmons-was-told-to-expect-a-trade-per-report/

https://sports.yahoo.com/breaking-down-the-james-harden-trade-034233901.html

Watch on YouTube

https://clutchpoints.com/sixers-rumors-ben-simmons-trade-package-could-not-beat-nets-in-james-harden-deal/

Reports came from both camps and almost all the people connected had similar info

[FireMorey]

No one credible has ever reported that. It's always been a false narrative people just ran with.

Really?


https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/76ers-were-so-sure-of-james-harden-deal-that-ben-simmons-was-told-to-expect-a-trade-per-report/

https://sports.yahoo.com/breaking-down-the-james-harden-trade-034233901.html

Watch on YouTube

https://clutchpoints.com/sixers-rumors-ben-simmons-trade-package-could-not-beat-nets-in-james-harden-deal/

Reports came from both camps and almost all the people connected had similar info

Woj and Shams reported that they would've made a deal. The only reports to the contrary said they didn't want to not that they wouldn't.

And Morey knew they would have traded him to the Sixers otherwise he wouldn't have negotiated or told Simmons expect to be traded.

Why would Morey tell Simmons he's close to being dealt if the Rockets weren't going to trade him?

[Murray_17]

Why would Morey tell Simmons he's close to being dealt if the Rockets weren't going to trade him?

Did you read the reports? Morey believed he had a deal and Fertita pulled the Lever off from him. In the worst scenary the deal hanged on Maxey getting traded.

The most probable thing was that the Rockets didn't intended on trading to the Sixers and used them as leverage to get a better package from the Nets.

[DCasey91]

Rockets owner tried to leverage the market and got a worse deal out of it. He’s an idiot, Cavs made out like bandits in the night

No loss for us, wasn’t our fault at play.

[the_process]

Imagine giving up more for Lillard than Harden. It’s why getting that done last year was so vital. Way more teams are going to be in the mix for Lillard than we’re for Harden.

Majority of the contenders are hard capped and have absolutely no picks.

If Lillard ask for a trade, there are just a few number of realistic teams he will want to be traded to.

The Harden trade never was gonna happen anyway because the Rockets were petty with Morey.

No one credible has ever reported that. It's always been a false narrative people just ran with.

Might wanna watch Woj right up above here, yeah?

[FireMorey]

Why would Morey tell Simmons he's close to being dealt if the Rockets weren't going to trade him?

Did you read the reports? Morey believed he had a deal and Fertita pulled the Lever off from him. In the worst scenary the deal hanged on Maxey getting traded.

The most probable thing was that the Rockets didn't intended on trading to the Sixers and used them as leverage to get a better package from the Nets.

Morey would know if a team would deal with him or not, he wouldn't have bothered if they were not in the mix.

You have to ask yourself this question: hypothetically, if the Sixers offered Simmons, Thybulle, Maxey 3 picks and 3 swaps, would the Rockets have accepted that? The answer to that is of course, because that's a ridiculous amount.

Now I'm not saying the Sixers should have or shouldn't have offered that, but if the answer to that question is yes, then they would have traded Harden to the Sixers, it's just what price point would Morey have to reach before it was enough for Fertitta to bite the bullet and trade him to Morey.

No one in sports flat out refuses trades out of spite if the offer is definitely better. It just doesn't happen. Maybe if both offers are equal or close to equal. But not when one is clearly better. That's organizational malpractice.

I don't think the Sixers offer was better. The Nets gave up a lot for a team who might prefer cap flexibility with the draft picks.

If anything, I think this non trade is more about the Rockets not valuing Simmons as much as people thought than it is them trying to stick it to Morey. If the Rockets thought Simmons was a can't-miss franchise player, then there's no way they turn that down out of spite. Don't care how bitter he was about Morey.

[Murray_17]

Morey would know if a team would deal with him or not, he wouldn't have bothered if they were not in the mix.

How would he know? do you think he's professor x?

You have to ask yourself this question: hypothetically, if the Sixers offered Simmons, Thybulle, Maxey 3 picks and 3 swaps, would the Rockets have accepted that? The answer to that is of course, because that's a ridiculous amount.

The Rockets could had get Lavert/Allen/Dinwiddie and Picks but didn't. The nets would had not even flinch to give them that, they have to move Spencer now anyways.

Fertitta basically just cut costs from what the salary on the team was. That was all, he's a notorious cheap guy and if you doubt this just look at the Oladipo deal on the trade deadline.

Now I'm not saying the Sixers should have or shouldn't have offered that, but if the answer to that question is yes, then they would have traded Harden to the Sixers, it's just what price point would Morey have to reach before it was enough for Fertitta to bite the bullet and trade him to Morey.

For the tenth time, Morey tought he had a deal and Ben and Mattise were informed of it....Fertitta pulled off

No one in sports flat out refuses trades out of spite if the offer is definitely better. It just doesn't happen. Maybe if both offers are equal or close to equal. But not when one is clearly better. That's organizational malpractice.

I'll love to live in your world where teams don't make several mistakes based on pettiness, bad evaluations and ego driven motives. Here in the normal world this is often common.

I don't think the Sixers offer was better. The Nets gave up a lot for a team who might prefer cap flexibility with the draft picks.

The Nets gave a player they needed to put on a bigger contract next season while they were trying to play small, other one that wasn't needed anymore with Durant/Dinwiddie/Kyrie and didn't even needed to move Dinwiddie... And picks that are gonna be bad with how good they currently are anyways.

I would love to know what you consider "little"

If anything, I think this non trade is more about the Rockets not valuing Simmons as much as people thought than it is them trying to stick it to Morey. If the Rockets thought Simmons was a can't-miss franchise player, then there's no way they turn that down out of spite. Don't care how bitter he was about Morey.

Even if this was true, they could have move him before the deadline like they did with Oladipo, probably to a bad team, and a much better pick than any pick they got from the Nets.

And this is true not only for Simmons but Jarrett Allen as well.

The rockets did an horrible trade, no matter how you slice it. And if Simmons was on the table it was a no brainer, you don't need to hold on to the player to make the trade valuable, specially if you're on a rebuilding phase. The only better trade was the one i mentioned before (Allen/Levert/Dinwiddie/picks)

[FireMorey]

Morey would know if a team would deal with him or not, he wouldn't have bothered if they were not in the mix.

How would he know? do you think he's professor x?

You have to ask yourself this question: hypothetically, if the Sixers offered Simmons, Thybulle, Maxey 3 picks and 3 swaps, would the Rockets have accepted that? The answer to that is of course, because that's a ridiculous amount.

The Rockets could had get Lavert/Allen/Dinwiddie and Picks but didn't. The nets would had not even flinch to give them that, they have to move Spencer now anyways.

Fertitta basically just cut costs from what the salary on the team was. That was all, he's a notorious cheap guy and if you doubt this just look at the Oladipo deal on the trade deadline.

Now I'm not saying the Sixers should have or shouldn't have offered that, but if the answer to that question is yes, then they would have traded Harden to the Sixers, it's just what price point would Morey have to reach before it was enough for Fertitta to bite the bullet and trade him to Morey.

For the tenth time, Morey tought he had a deal and Ben and Mattise were informed of it....Fertitta pulled off

No one in sports flat out refuses trades out of spite if the offer is definitely better. It just doesn't happen. Maybe if both offers are equal or close to equal. But not when one is clearly better. That's organizational malpractice.

I'll love to live in your world where teams don't make several mistakes based on pettiness, bad evaluations and ego driven motives. Here in the normal world this is often common.

I don't think the Sixers offer was better. The Nets gave up a lot for a team who might prefer cap flexibility with the draft picks.

The Nets gave a player they needed to put on a bigger contract next season while they were trying to play small, other one that wasn't needed anymore with Durant/Dinwiddie/Kyrie and didn't even needed to move Dinwiddie... And picks that are gonna be bad with how good they currently are anyways.

I would love to know what you consider "little"

If anything, I think this non trade is more about the Rockets not valuing Simmons as much as people thought than it is them trying to stick it to Morey. If the Rockets thought Simmons was a can't-miss franchise player, then there's no way they turn that down out of spite. Don't care how bitter he was about Morey.

Even if this was true, they could have move him before the deadline like they did with Oladipo, probably to a bad team, and a much better pick than any pick they got from the Nets.

And this is true not only for Simmons but Jarrett Allen as well.

The rockets did an horrible trade, no matter how you slice it. And if Simmons was on the table it was a no brainer, you don't need to hold on to the player to make the trade valuable, specially if you're on a rebuilding phase. The only better trade was the one i mentioned before (Allen/Levert/Dinwiddie/picks)

-Morey obviously has connections in the organization. Do you honestly believe they strung Morey along, told him a deal was done, and then backed out last second out of spite? There's no chance that happened. And there's nothing indicating it did.

-Morey thought he had a deal, and I think the Nets beat their offer. That makes a lot more sense than this being some grand conspiracy for Fertitta to tell Morey all along he would trade him to the Sixers and then laugh maniacally as he backs out at the last second.

-Teams do things all the time out of ego and pettiness. Not turn down superior trades. The dynamic is different here than say a GM getting into a squabble with a coach and letting it get in the way. The difference is, if you win the trade, then that's how you get back at a GM you have beef with. If the Nets got a great haul from Morey and accepted it, that's sticking it to the GM. They literally will have just given you the means to rebuild your team. And imagine trying to sell that to your fan base. You took a lesser deal out of spite. Good way to lose fans, ticket sales, and hurt your bottom line.

[Murray_17]

-Morey obviously has connections in the organization. Do you honestly believe they strung Morey along, told him a deal was done, and then backed out last second out of spite? There's no chance that happened. And there's nothing indicating it did.

I found that more believable than thinking Morey telling two players they were gonna get dealt only for fun.

-Morey thought he had a deal, and I think the Nets beat their offer. That makes a lot more sense than this being some grand conspiracy for Fertitta to tell Morey all along he would trade him to the Sixers and then laugh maniacally as he backs out at the last second.

I don't get how you could say this and then argue that teams make "rational decissions when it comes to trades"

Like, did you saw what the Rockets got for Harden?

-Teams do things all the time out of ego and pettiness. Not turn down superior trades. The dynamic is different here than say a GM getting into a squabble with a coach and letting it get in the way. The difference is, if you win the trade, then that's how you get back at a GM you have beef with. If the Sixers got a great haul from Morey and accepted it, that's sticking it to the GM. They literally will have just given you the means to rebuild your team. And imagine trying to sell that to your fan base. You took a lesser deal out of spite. Good way to lose fans, ticket sales, and hurt your bottom line.

This is the same league where we literally had video of a war room draft and an entire analytics team being overruled by an idiot GM while screaming "Nick Rocks" like they're happy.

The same league where a team traded a first round pick for Bargnani because he was represented by the same firm that was managing the team

[sixers hoops]

Why would Morey tell Simmons he's close to being dealt if the Rockets weren't going to trade him?

Did you read the reports? Morey believed he had a deal and Fertita pulled the Lever off from him. In the worst scenary the deal hanged on Maxey getting traded.

The most probable thing was that the Rockets didn't intended on trading to the Sixers and used them as leverage to get a better package from the Nets.

Morey would know if a team would deal with him or not, he wouldn't have bothered if they were not in the mix.

You have to ask yourself this question: hypothetically, if the Sixers offered Simmons, Thybulle, Maxey 3 picks and 3 swaps, would the Rockets have accepted that? The answer to that is of course, because that's a ridiculous amount.

Now I'm not saying the Sixers should have or shouldn't have offered that, but if the answer to that question is yes, then they would have traded Harden to the Sixers, it's just what price point would Morey have to reach before it was enough for Fertitta to bite the bullet and trade him to Morey.

No one in sports flat out refuses trades out of spite if the offer is definitely better. It just doesn't happen. Maybe if both offers are equal or close to equal. But not when one is clearly better. That's organizational malpractice.

I don't think the Sixers offer was better. The Nets gave up a lot for a team who might prefer cap flexibility with the draft picks.

If anything, I think this non trade is more about the Rockets not valuing Simmons as much as people thought than it is them trying to stick it to Morey. If the Rockets thought Simmons was a can't-miss franchise player, then there's no way they turn that down out of spite. Don't care how bitter he was about Morey.

I don’t think the Rockets wanted Simmons. It was clear they wanted picks and expirings. The Nets offered four firsts and four swaps. It was a tough deal to beat considering Houston’s valuing the draft picks. The value of those draft picks is difficult to discern, since it is mostly based on our projection for the Nets for seven years.

The picks and swaps become extremely damaging if your team falls out of playoff contention. However, if the Nets are a playoff team for most of the seven years, Houston is going to end up with mostly late firsts and swaps that were never converted.

[FireMorey]

-Morey obviously has connections in the organization. Do you honestly believe they strung Morey along, told him a deal was done, and then backed out last second out of spite? There's no chance that happened. And there's nothing indicating it did.

I found that more believable than thinking Morey telling two players they were gonna get dealt only for fun.

-Morey thought he had a deal, and I think the Nets beat their offer. That makes a lot more sense than this being some grand conspiracy for Fertitta to tell Morey all along he would trade him to the Sixers and then laugh maniacally as he backs out at the last second.

I don't get how you could say this and then argue that teams make "rational decissions when it comes to trades"

Like, did you saw what the Rockets got for Harden?

-Teams do things all the time out of ego and pettiness. Not turn down superior trades. The dynamic is different here than say a GM getting into a squabble with a coach and letting it get in the way. The difference is, if you win the trade, then that's how you get back at a GM you have beef with. If the Sixers got a great haul from Morey and accepted it, that's sticking it to the GM. They literally will have just given you the means to rebuild your team. And imagine trying to sell that to your fan base. You took a lesser deal out of spite. Good way to lose fans, ticket sales, and hurt your bottom line.

This is the same league where we literally had video of a war room draft and an entire analytics team being overruled by an idiot GM while screaming "Nick Rocks" like they're happy

He didn't tell Simmons the deal was done. The report was told them expect to be traded today. There's a difference. Morey obviously thought a deal was very close. The Nets likely beat the offer.

I think the Rockets did well. They were dumb flipping Levert for Oladipo, but the draft compensation was substantial. For a rebuilding team, that gives a lot of flexibility. And it was acquired in a two team race for Harden. It's not like there were 8 teams involved. And Harden was fat and out of shape and was acting like a child. I think they did well. Tbh I like what they got more than say Simmons, Thybulle, and two first rounders from the Sixers. Which was rumored by some to be the Sixers' best offer.

Well yeah, idiocy and ego will always be part of the league, but Vivek legitimately thought Stauskas was going to be a stud. He didn't do something he thought would hurt his own team just to stick it to someone else.

[FireMorey]

Did you read the reports? Morey believed he had a deal and Fertita pulled the Lever off from him. In the worst scenary the deal hanged on Maxey getting traded.

The most probable thing was that the Rockets didn't intended on trading to the Sixers and used them as leverage to get a better package from the Nets.

Morey would know if a team would deal with him or not, he wouldn't have bothered if they were not in the mix.

You have to ask yourself this question: hypothetically, if the Sixers offered Simmons, Thybulle, Maxey 3 picks and 3 swaps, would the Rockets have accepted that? The answer to that is of course, because that's a ridiculous amount.

Now I'm not saying the Sixers should have or shouldn't have offered that, but if the answer to that question is yes, then they would have traded Harden to the Sixers, it's just what price point would Morey have to reach before it was enough for Fertitta to bite the bullet and trade him to Morey.

No one in sports flat out refuses trades out of spite if the offer is definitely better. It just doesn't happen. Maybe if both offers are equal or close to equal. But not when one is clearly better. That's organizational malpractice.

I don't think the Sixers offer was better. The Nets gave up a lot for a team who might prefer cap flexibility with the draft picks.

If anything, I think this non trade is more about the Rockets not valuing Simmons as much as people thought than it is them trying to stick it to Morey. If the Rockets thought Simmons was a can't-miss franchise player, then there's no way they turn that down out of spite. Don't care how bitter he was about Morey.

I don’t think the Rockets wanted Simmons. It was clear they wanted picks and expirings. The Nets offered four firsts and four swaps. It was a tough deal to beat considering Houston’s valuing the draft picks. The value of those draft picks is difficult to discern, since it is mostly based on our projection for the Nets for seven years.

The picks and swaps become extremely damaging if your team falls out of playoff contention. However, if the Nets are a playoff team for most of the seven years, Houston is going to end up with mostly late firsts and swaps that were never converted.

I agree somewhat. I think if the Sixers matched the Nets draft pick compensation exactly, they would have taken the Sixers offer. What was it, 3 picks and 3 swaps? Or 3 picks and two swaps? And if they didn't want Simmons at all, they could've flipped him to a third team like they did with Levert for even more.

But in a vacuum, I think they preferred draft picks to Ben Simmons on what they were prioritizing.