2020-2021 College Basketball / NBA Draft

Kobblehead · Post #841 » by **Kobblehead** » Thu Jul 1, 2021 11:57 pm

Wait, why does everyone think Hyland is going to be a defensive liability? I read that on scouting reports, too, and I don't understand it. Is it just because he's physically weak? If it wasn't for Jacob Gilyard, Hyland would have probably been the A10 Defensive Player of the Year.

I don't love him offensively because I think he's limited to a pick and roll creator at best, but I have no problems with him defensively. I think he'll be a stud on that end. De'Aaron Fox ish.

76ciology · Post #842 » by **76ciology** » Fri Jul 2, 2021 4:55 am

Kobblehead wrote:Wait, why does everyone think Hyland is going to be a defensive liability? I read that on scouting reports, too, and I don't understand it. Is it just because he's physically weak? If it wasn't for Jacob Gilyard, Hyland would have probably been the A10 Defensive Player of the Year.

I don't love him offensively because I think he's limited to a pick and roll creator at best, but I have no problems with him defensively. I think he'll be a stud on that end. De'Aaron Fox ish.

His weight is an issue. He’s just 165 lbs. But it wont stop me selecting him even with a top 13 pick because i dont give an F on defense lol I think he’s be fine, he has one of the best height to wingspan ratio among prospects. I just hope he has a better upside than Shake.

76ciology · Post #843 » by **76ciology** » Fri Jul 2, 2021 4:59 am

Cade kind of reminds me of a smaller version of Luka.

In a good way, I think he can get his points like luka. He should be able to get a good look in the mid range on every screen off PnR. He’d also be a very good PnR player given his guard skills of ball handling, passing and shooting.

In a bad way, I think he wont be quick and athletic enough to blow past his defenders and finish at an elite level (frequency and %). Luka’s quite big so he can shoot over his defender, not so sure Cade can replicate it.

Then Jalen Green is what Wiggins should have been if he has guard skills. He’d be able to shoot over and blow past most defenders.

stormi · Post #844 » by **stormi** » Fri Jul 2, 2021 7:43 am

Bones Hyland reminds me of Immanuel Quickley. Good player.

Kobblehead · Post #845 » by **Kobblehead** » Fri Jul 2, 2021 5:27 pm

76ciology wrote:Cade kind of reminds me of a smaller version of Luka.

In a good way, I think he can get his points like luka. He should be able to get a good look in the mid range on every screen off PnR. He’d also be a very good PnR player given his guard skills of ball handling, passing and shooting.

In a bad way, I think he wont be quick and athletic enough to blow past his defenders and finish at an elite level (frequency and %). Luka’s quite big so he can shoot over his defender, not so sure Cade can replicate it.

Then Jalen Green is what Wiggins should have been if he has guard skills. He’d be able to shoot over and blow past most defenders.

I don't see Cade on Luka's level in terms of being a dynamic shotcreater with elite ability to cook. Luka had insert-Harden projection from the jump. Don't see Cade with quite that ability.

Cade reminds me more of a cross between Sadiq Bey and Jayson Tatum. Good creator for his size with a ready made jumper. Has the team defense of Tatum. Is already a good passer. Cade is a really well-rounded prospect. Just don't think he's ready to be among the best creators in the league anytime soon. He's way better than Anthony Edwards, though, that's for sure.

Kobblehead · Post #846 » by **Kobblehead** » Fri Jul 2, 2021 5:32 pm

76ciology wrote:His weight is an issue. He’s just 165 lbs. But it wont stop me selecting him even with a top 13 pick because i dont give an F on defense lol I think he’s be fine, he has one of the best height to wingspan ratio among prospects. I just hope he has a better upside than Shake.

I agree that his weight is a concern, but if we think about the way the game is played now, all the perimeter guards just jack up a bunch of shots. Nobody has a well-rounded enough game to back him down and post him up. Hyland's quickness and length and ability to generate steals actually projects him to be a fantastic modern defender IMO.

76ciology · Post #847 » by **76ciology** » Fri Jul 2, 2021 5:43 pm

stormi wrote:Bones Hyland reminds me of Immanuel Quickley. Good player.

Good.

Because he reminds me a mix of Shayok and Milton’s skillset with Paul Reed’s body :lol:

76ciology · Post #848 » by **76ciology** » Fri Jul 2, 2021 5:44 pm

Kobblehead wrote:
76ciology wrote:His weight is an issue. He’s just 165 lbs. But it wont stop me selecting him even with a top 13 pick because i dont give an F on defense lol I think he’s be fine, he has one of the best height to wingspan ratio among prospects. I just hope he has a better upside than Shake.

I agree that his weight is a concern, but if we think about the way the game is played now, all the perimeter guards just jack up a bunch of shots. Nobody has a well-rounded enough game to back him down and post him up. Hyland's quickness and length and ability to generate steals actually projects him to be a fantastic modern defender IMO.

Yeah, im not that concerned honestly.

Kobblehead · Post #849 » by **Kobblehead** » Fri Jul 2, 2021 6:17 pm

My concern with Hyland is whether or not he can consistently get to the rim off the dribble. I have the same concern for like 80% of the gs being ranked in the 1st round. Many of these guys are overrated IMO.

DCasey91 · Post #850 » by **DCasey91** » Fri Jul 2, 2021 11:34 pm

76ciology wrote:Cade kind of reminds me of a smaller version of Luka.

In a good way, I think he can get his points like luka. He should be able to get a good look in the mid range on every screen off PnR. He’d also be a very good PnR player given his guard skills of ball handling, passing and shooting.

In a bad way, I think he wont be quick and athletic enough to blow past his defenders and finish at an elite level (frequency and %). Luka’s quite big so he can shoot over his defender, not so sure Cade can replicate it.

Then Jalen Green is what Wiggins should have been if he has guard skills. He’d be able to shoot over and blow past most defenders.

Cade doesn’t even have have half the savvy scoring skillset as Rookie Luka lol. Backend he averaged 21/7/6.

Cade has an average handle. Euro Luka’s handle was extremely high for his age and a massive size for a PG switch SF.

Luka is literally a smaller Lebron with the foot speed/movement but nuance of Chris Mullin. He uses his naturally bigger frame so much more naturally better then Cade does. It’s god given talent here.

He dribbles that thing like a 6”2 guard. Cade will definitely not have Lukas handle ever let alone his scoring or passing skillset.

Luka is a godly finisher much like Lebron. He’s a tank that’s why.

Cade is not 6”8. Smaller Tatum bigger less bouncy Hayward is my comp.

Luka is a generational talent, Cade is 100% not. He struggled at times finishing in College because he doesn’t have much wiggle or an in between game. It’s very vanilla

In fact all of his hyped attributes is super overrated. His best aspect is his shooting. Would much rather see him shooting 6 3balls a game rather then being a primary hub on a team. Nothing in his game is of quality of that.

I mean rookie Luka made Paul George look silly on more than one occasion.

Dude even in Eurobasket he was class above at times and played with and versed serious NBA quality.

Luka is maybe the most accomplished teenage to come out of the draft in ages.

Dude was averaging a triple double starting his second season. All star East quality basically when he took the reigns over first year. Dude played along side a spaz athlete (Smith) before the trade lol.

Luka played with Dragic ffs.

Also pray for Tre Mann at pick 28. Let the scouts bring his measurables down. Then we can snag him up quicksmart.

Jalen Green is a taller Beal if a taller Beal had Morant athleticism and contortion with a better shooting stroke and less passing ability.

His touch and passing is super underrated. Seriously he’s a freak athlete one of the best at the guard spot since god knows but even being a freak athlete you still need skill to finish. His touch his A class.

Dudes contortion skills my god. He’s going to be a nightmare.

He’s a handful and a half right now being 15+ pounds off perfect playing weight.

Hyper Beal here we come. Year 3 25ppg easy bookmark it.

Kobblehead · Post #851 » by **Kobblehead** » Fri Jul 2, 2021 11:41 pm

I like Orlando as a landing spot for Cade. That way, he doesn't have the pressure of being the #1 go-to creator in the halfcourt. They have dynamic young creation core in Gs Anthony, Fultz and Hampton. Cunningham can just chill and be the Jayson Tatum drilling threes off the ball and occasionally cooking as a secondary creator.

They have the ammo to trade up, too, with two top 10 picks.

DCasey91 · Post #852 » by **DCasey91** » Fri Jul 2, 2021 11:49 pm

Kobble.... Cade is not going at five my man lol Zero chance that’s happening.

It’d have to be 5,8 and a nice prospect. The value is marginal there. You could move that for disgruntled star or just select two prospects. He’s not Luka lol

I’d rather see Green at the Pistons don’t make the mistake at picking Cade at 1#. But he’s not dropping to five though.

They have 4 wings, two starters, two bench. Don’t pick Cade he is 100% a wing, secondary ball option. Don’t need that. What they need is a stud SG prospect which they don’t have. You can argue leadership tangibles fine but look at their team setup:

PG -Joseph
SG - Green
SF - Bey
PF - Grant
C - Stewart

Bench:

PG - Hayes
SG - Mcgruder
SF - Sekou
PF - Jackson
C - Plumlee

Sh*t that’s very decent developmental wise for the next 3 years. If they play their cards right they are going to be successful for that City soon.

Kobblehead · Post #853 » by **Kobblehead** » Sat Jul 3, 2021 12:22 am

I was referring to Orlando packaging their two Top 10 picks and moving up to #1 to take Cade. There are reports that Detroit is wavering on Cade anyway. Pull a Celtics and trade back a few slots when they were wavering on Fultz.

DCasey91 · Post #854 » by **DCasey91** » Sat Jul 3, 2021 1:00 am

Kobblehead wrote:I was referring to Orlando packaging their two Top 10 picks and moving up to #1 to take Cade. There are reports that Detroit is wavering on Cade anyway. Pull a Celtics and trade back a few slots when they were wavering on Fultz.

That’s fair though I’d look at Ingram with the picks as an established star for the Orlando magic. Harris/WCJ and the two top ten picks maybe? Isaac, Bamba and Ingram is length for days on end lol

Cole
RJ
Isaac
Ingram
Bamba

6th man: Flamethrower T. Ross

That’s a playoff contender in the East look at that length though (not that hard to do let’s be honest lol). Move Fultz again who knows.

stormi · Post #855 » by **stormi** » Sat Jul 3, 2021 1:02 am

Josh Primo has to have a promise somewhere. Assuming NY?

76ciology · Post #856 » by **76ciology** » Sat Jul 3, 2021 6:02 am

Kobblehead wrote:My concern with Hyland is whether or not he can consistently get to the rim off the dribble. I have the same concern for like 80% of the gs being ranked in the 1st round. Many of these guys are overrated IMO.

Development?

The key is drafting the right type of player, repeatedly then just cross your fingers they would develop.

The game is made easy for guys like hyland, cam thomas, ayo, mann, bouknight and etc. you wouldnt need to cross a big gap to bridge them to their best case scenario unlike for a guy like Barnes.

Kobblehead · Post #857 » by **Kobblehead** » Sat Jul 3, 2021 10:45 am

I elevate Mann above those other guys because I think Mann is a great 1-on-1 player. Those other guys, no so much IMO. I agree about the key being drafting the right type of player. But I think the right players are guys that can cook 1-on-1 and just hope they round out the rest of their game.

Tre Mann, Shariffe Cooper, Jaden Shackelford, David Johnson, Scotty Pippen, D.J. Carton....these guys are better 1-on-1 players than everyone being mocked in the first round outside of maybe Jalen Green and Davion Mitchell. Many of the other guards need screens to get their shot off.

I'm not too excited about guards that need screens to get their shot off. Or guards that can't get to the rim consistently off the dribble. Even if they have good defense and shooting ability. I want mfers that can cook. Tyrese Maxey was a good start. Let's keep the ball rolling.

Kobblehead · Post #858 » by **Kobblehead** » Sat Jul 3, 2021 1:38 pm

I've been talking about him for a couple of years but Michael Hughes of Duquesne is still a sleeper that could have a long career as a defensive big in this league if someone gives him a chance.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/michael-hughes-2.html

Negrodamus · Post #859 » by **Negrodamus** » Sat Jul 3, 2021 6:48 pm

Cameron Thomas reminds me of a less athletic Terrence Ross: just 100% a gunner. Cam's shot still looks goofy to me which gives me a lot of pause with him, among other things.

Negrodamus · Post #860 » by **Negrodamus** » Sat Jul 3, 2021 7:04 pm

Kobblehead wrote:I'm not too excited about guards that need screens to get their shot off. Or guards that can't get to the rim consistently off the dribble. Even if they have good defense and shooting ability. I want mfers that can cook. Tyrese Maxey was a good start. Let's keep the ball rolling.

I've got bad news for you about SGA. Dude was/is great with the ball in his hands but he's either herky jerky beating his man or going off screens. Definitely not a quick guard.