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Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4

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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4 

Post#841 » by stormi » Sat Sep 4, 2021 8:41 pm

Negrodamus wrote:
stormi wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
Oh man, that's what you gleaned from this? Lol. Anyway, we have the best "LEBRON" big/overall player in the game, maybe we can trade Ben for an actual Creator or Ball Handler so we don't need to rely on Tobias to do any creating and actually enhances our best player's game. We can get Tobias back to his final year with the Clippers/first year with Sixers form when we had an actual good creator in Jimmy Butler and Tobi was a .300+ 3Pr player.


The bolded is idealistic.

But then it goes back to the initial predicament with Harris. He's a 'shot creator' that isn't actually reliable at creating shots.

He's a roleplayer and should be viewed as such around here.


Why are we assigning so much value to a Roll and Cut big who continuously insists he's a point guard?

Also, peep Tobias's rank when he wasn't forced to be the primary creator on offense for the Sixers. He's being forced to do more because we don't have a point guard or a creator.

Once we get someone competent at that position, he'll return to his 60 TS%, .30+ 3PAr, and .25+ FTr.


Because he has traits more valuable than anything Tobias' and his poor attempts at shot creation can provide.

Tobias has never been a primary creator - he's been asked to be the secondary creator after Jojo, but not only been underwhelming in terms of getting his own, he's an actual zero in the pick & roll. He can't combine with Joel or make those around him better. He's a pure scorer that in your own ideal world is relegated to spot up duty alongside an actual ballhandler. You're acknowledging that he is a role player without explicitly saying it.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4 

Post#842 » by IceManBK1 » Sat Sep 4, 2021 8:47 pm

New 3 way with Toronto, Min and Philly:

Vanvleet and Boucher and 2 firsts and 1 2nd(Min) to Philly
Maxey, Beasley and Prince to Toronto
Simmons to Min

Philly Roster:
Vanvleet
thybulle
Harris
Boucher
Embiid
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4 

Post#843 » by Negrodamus » Sat Sep 4, 2021 8:48 pm

IceManBK1 wrote:New 3 way with Toronto, Min and Philly:

Vanvleet and Prince and 2 firsts and 1 2nd(Min) to Philly
Maxey, Beasley and Layman and Okogie to Toronto
Simmons to Min

Philly Roster:
Vanvleet
Danny Green
Prince
Tobias Haris
Embiid


This is the one. Thanks, it's perfect.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4 

Post#844 » by IceManBK1 » Sat Sep 4, 2021 8:50 pm

Negrodamus wrote:
IceManBK1 wrote:New 3 way with Toronto, Min and Philly:

Vanvleet and Prince and 2 firsts and 1 2nd(Min) to Philly
Maxey, Beasley and Layman and Okogie to Toronto
Simmons to Min

Philly Roster:
Vanvleet
Danny Green
Prince
Tobias Haris
Embiid


This is the one. Thanks, it's perfect.


I changed it, you guys get Vanvleet and Chris Boucher and 2 first and 1 2nd from Minny:)
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4 

Post#845 » by sixers hoops » Sat Sep 4, 2021 8:53 pm

stormi wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:Does anyone wonder why Tobias Harris, after a career of sub 12 AST%, is suddenly a distributor for us? Could it be because Ben is absolutely useless in the halfcourt and we need our 1 (ONE) perimeter offensive creator to actually put pressure on the defense and set up others to score?


Ben isn't a halfcourt creator? Shocker, we've known this since... um before he ever stepped on the floor in Sixers colors. Even Colangelo knew this and gave up valuable assets to get Fultz. Ben is here to defend, create shots in transition and attack the basket off cuts. He does all of this at a high level, which is why his impact is high, he drives wins and he's been a boxscore darling. Ben makes Seth and Danny better, just like he made Roco and Saric better.

Tobias retroactively makes everyone worse. No playmaking, no defending and not enough substantial shotcreation to mitigate this.


We know this but the Sixers haven’t acknowledged this. If so, they would have acquired someone who is a halfcourt creator, and use Ben or Tobias at the four. Embiid, Ben, and Tobias aren’t a good combo. Ben or Tobias has to go and we need a halfcourt creator. I think this was evident at the end of the Jimmy Butler season, but instead of moving Ben to PF, we signed Tobias and Horford… two more bigs.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4 

Post#846 » by Negrodamus » Sat Sep 4, 2021 9:03 pm

IceManBK1 wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
IceManBK1 wrote:New 3 way with Toronto, Min and Philly:

Vanvleet and Prince and 2 firsts and 1 2nd(Min) to Philly
Maxey, Beasley and Layman and Okogie to Toronto
Simmons to Min

Philly Roster:
Vanvleet
Danny Green
Prince
Tobias Haris
Embiid


This is the one. Thanks, it's perfect.


I changed it, you guys get Vanvleet and Chris Boucher and 2 first and 1 2nd from Minny:)


Just to give you a heads up, I think Morey is asking for a lot more than that. For example, my prediction is every unprotected MIN first we're able to get for the foreseeable future (with poss of pick swaps) plus D'Angelo Russell seems like in the realm of where Morey is. The price is going to be very steep.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4 

Post#847 » by sixers hoops » Sat Sep 4, 2021 9:06 pm

stormi wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
stormi wrote:
He's a transition playmaker, + screen & roller + slasher

Image


Maybe back in 2016-2018 when he was fooling the NBA, but the "NBA statisticians" wised up and labeled him correctly these past two years:

Image


So... Ben is younger, and a net neutral offensive player & defensive beast, while being a knucklehead going through some of the worst stretches of basketball he'll likely ever play.

And Tobias is a washed up 30 year old that's toxic as a ballhandler and a sieve defensively.

Image

I think we're on the same page, yea.


I think Ben could be net neutral offensively. However, as the starting point guard he is an extreme liability because he can’t perform the duties of a point guard, so we have to give point guard duties to TJ, Jimmy, Shake, Seth, Maxey, George Hill. Who fault is this? Prob Brett, Elton, Doc, and Morey. They need to move Ben to a position that he can exceed with his current skillset. Not call him a point guard and say “he would be a great point guard if he develops a perimeter game and ability to create a shot for himself.” Move him to PF, and if he develops a perimeter game, then he could be a great point guard, but it’s been five years.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4 

Post#848 » by Negrodamus » Sat Sep 4, 2021 9:36 pm

Honestly, if it weren't for injury history, I feel like Sabonis would be a good target. He's a more self aware, worse defensive Ben Simmons who will actually shoot the ball. Also on a friendlier contract.

Feels like Simmons has more clout and perceived value, but honestly, one for one makes sense. The unfortunate part is that we still won't have a real PG on this team.

His injury history scares me and kills his value though.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4 

Post#849 » by sixers hoops » Sat Sep 4, 2021 10:42 pm

Negrodamus wrote:Honestly, if it weren't for injury history, I feel like Sabonis would be a good target. He's a more self aware, worse defensive Ben Simmons who will actually shoot the ball. Also on a friendlier contract.

Feels like Simmons has more clout and perceived value, but honestly, one for one makes sense. The unfortunate part is that we still won't have a real PG on this team.

His injury history scares me and kills his value though.


You are one of the two or three top college ball gurus, so do you think Maxey is the real starting point guard. After watching his rookie season, I think what he lacks in shooting and defense, he might make up for with his overall floor game. The first time I saw Maxey play, I thought that speed of the pro game didn’t phase him.

Am I too overzealous in saying that running an NBA team is natural for Maxey? He runs the point with ease, although he is usually finding shots for himself with the second unit, or dishing to Kork. If they announced Maxey is the starter next season, I would be happy with the decision.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4 

Post#850 » by eyeatoma » Sat Sep 4, 2021 10:50 pm

Negrodamus wrote:
IceManBK1 wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
This is the one. Thanks, it's perfect.


I changed it, you guys get Vanvleet and Chris Boucher and 2 first and 1 2nd from Minny:)


Just to give you a heads up, I think Morey is asking for a lot more than that. For example, my prediction is every unprotected MIN first we're able to get for the foreseeable future (with poss of pick swaps) plus D'Angelo Russell seems like in the realm of where Morey is. The price is going to be very steep.


Surprised you want to give Maxey up for that deal. IMO Maxey can only be paired for a superstar.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4 

Post#851 » by Negrodamus » Sat Sep 4, 2021 10:53 pm

sixers hoops wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:Honestly, if it weren't for injury history, I feel like Sabonis would be a good target. He's a more self aware, worse defensive Ben Simmons who will actually shoot the ball. Also on a friendlier contract.

Feels like Simmons has more clout and perceived value, but honestly, one for one makes sense. The unfortunate part is that we still won't have a real PG on this team.

His injury history scares me and kills his value though.


You are one of the two or three top college ball gurus, so do you think Maxey is the real starting point guard. After watching his rookie season, I think what he lacks in shooting and defense, he might make up for with his overall floor game. The first time I saw Maxey play, I thought that speed of the pro game didn’t phase him.

Am I too overzealous in saying that running an NBA team is natural for Maxey? He runs the point with ease, although he is usually finding shots for himself with the second unit, or dishing to Kork. If they announced Maxey is the starter next season, I would be happy with the decision.


Well, he doesn't really strike me as a point guard. He certainly has the handles and his defense has improved markedly since UK/beginning of his rookie year. It's encouraging that he's such a gym rat. That said, someone I've been comparing him to is Collin Sexton because he's not much of a distributor. He's capable of being a secondary distributor because he's not completely terrible in that regard, but he's not great at it.

I'd start Maxey next year and pair him with a large guard with passing capabilities like I was advocating earlier in this thread (Ball/Haliburton). I'm not sure that's going to be available, but I also don't know what we'll get with the inevitable Ben trade. I think 20 ppg, 3 apg, and 3 rpg are possible in his future.

But I'll also fully admit that I was not a big fan of drafting Maxey last year because he fell short in certain respects (STL%, AST%, 3pt shooting, FTr, etc) but that wasn't correctly weighed due to him being a Freshman. The eye test was certainly there with his speed and aggressive offensive game.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4 

Post#852 » by Negrodamus » Sat Sep 4, 2021 10:56 pm

eyeatoma wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
IceManBK1 wrote:
I changed it, you guys get Vanvleet and Chris Boucher and 2 first and 1 2nd from Minny:)


Just to give you a heads up, I think Morey is asking for a lot more than that. For example, my prediction is every unprotected MIN first we're able to get for the foreseeable future (with poss of pick swaps) plus D'Angelo Russell seems like in the realm of where Morey is. The price is going to be very steep.


Surprised you want to give Maxey up for that deal. IMO Maxey can only be paired for a superstar.


I was being facetious since every post he makes is him trying to jam Ben into Minnesota. FVV and Boucher doesn't really do anything for us.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4 

Post#853 » by Slick SickSir » Sat Sep 4, 2021 10:59 pm

Negrodamus wrote:
sixers hoops wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:Honestly, if it weren't for injury history, I feel like Sabonis would be a good target. He's a more self aware, worse defensive Ben Simmons who will actually shoot the ball. Also on a friendlier contract.

Feels like Simmons has more clout and perceived value, but honestly, one for one makes sense. The unfortunate part is that we still won't have a real PG on this team.

His injury history scares me and kills his value though.


You are one of the two or three top college ball gurus, so do you think Maxey is the real starting point guard. After watching his rookie season, I think what he lacks in shooting and defense, he might make up for with his overall floor game. The first time I saw Maxey play, I thought that speed of the pro game didn’t phase him.

Am I too overzealous in saying that running an NBA team is natural for Maxey? He runs the point with ease, although he is usually finding shots for himself with the second unit, or dishing to Kork. If they announced Maxey is the starter next season, I would be happy with the decision.


Well, he doesn't really strike me as a point guard. He certainly has the handles and his defense has improved markedly since UK/beginning of his rookie year. It's encouraging that he's such a gym rat. That said, someone I've been comparing him to is Collin Sexton because he's not much of a distributor. He's capable of being a secondary distributor because he's not completely terrible in that regard, but he's not great at it.

I'd start Maxey next year and pair him with a large guard with passing capabilities like I was advocating earlier in this thread (Ball/Haliburton). I'm not sure that's going to be available, but I also don't know what we'll get with the inevitable Ben trade. I think 20 ppg, 3 apg, and 3 rpg are possible in his future.

But I'll also fully admit that I was not a big fan of drafting Maxey last year because he fell short in certain respects (STL%, AST%, 3pt shooting, FTr, etc) but that wasn't correctly weighed due to him being a Freshman. The eye test was certainly there with his speed and aggressive offensive game.


Brogdon is one of those guys as well. Best deal IMO is bitchboi and shake for brogdon and warren

Brogdon/maxey
Green/curry
Warren/thybulle
Harris/warren/thybulle
Embiid/drummond

Shooting and creating everywhere and still have good defense
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4 

Post#854 » by eyeatoma » Sat Sep 4, 2021 11:03 pm

Slick SickSir wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
sixers hoops wrote:
You are one of the two or three top college ball gurus, so do you think Maxey is the real starting point guard. After watching his rookie season, I think what he lacks in shooting and defense, he might make up for with his overall floor game. The first time I saw Maxey play, I thought that speed of the pro game didn’t phase him.

Am I too overzealous in saying that running an NBA team is natural for Maxey? He runs the point with ease, although he is usually finding shots for himself with the second unit, or dishing to Kork. If they announced Maxey is the starter next season, I would be happy with the decision.


Well, he doesn't really strike me as a point guard. He certainly has the handles and his defense has improved markedly since UK/beginning of his rookie year. It's encouraging that he's such a gym rat. That said, someone I've been comparing him to is Collin Sexton because he's not much of a distributor. He's capable of being a secondary distributor because he's not completely terrible in that regard, but he's not great at it.

I'd start Maxey next year and pair him with a large guard with passing capabilities like I was advocating earlier in this thread (Ball/Haliburton). I'm not sure that's going to be available, but I also don't know what we'll get with the inevitable Ben trade. I think 20 ppg, 3 apg, and 3 rpg are possible in his future.

But I'll also fully admit that I was not a big fan of drafting Maxey last year because he fell short in certain respects (STL%, AST%, 3pt shooting, FTr, etc) but that wasn't correctly weighed due to him being a Freshman. The eye test was certainly there with his speed and aggressive offensive game.


Brogdon is one of those guys as well. Best deal IMO is bitchboi and shake for brogdon and warren

Brogdon/maxey
Green/curry
Warren/thybulle
Harris/warren/thybulle
Embiid/drummond

Shooting and creating everywhere and still have good defense


In theory that would be great, but they're both two of the most injury prone players in the league.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4 

Post#855 » by Embiid P » Sat Sep 4, 2021 11:14 pm

Slick SickSir wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
sixers hoops wrote:
You are one of the two or three top college ball gurus, so do you think Maxey is the real starting point guard. After watching his rookie season, I think what he lacks in shooting and defense, he might make up for with his overall floor game. The first time I saw Maxey play, I thought that speed of the pro game didn’t phase him.

Am I too overzealous in saying that running an NBA team is natural for Maxey? He runs the point with ease, although he is usually finding shots for himself with the second unit, or dishing to Kork. If they announced Maxey is the starter next season, I would be happy with the decision.


Well, he doesn't really strike me as a point guard. He certainly has the handles and his defense has improved markedly since UK/beginning of his rookie year. It's encouraging that he's such a gym rat. That said, someone I've been comparing him to is Collin Sexton because he's not much of a distributor. He's capable of being a secondary distributor because he's not completely terrible in that regard, but he's not great at it.

I'd start Maxey next year and pair him with a large guard with passing capabilities like I was advocating earlier in this thread (Ball/Haliburton). I'm not sure that's going to be available, but I also don't know what we'll get with the inevitable Ben trade. I think 20 ppg, 3 apg, and 3 rpg are possible in his future.

But I'll also fully admit that I was not a big fan of drafting Maxey last year because he fell short in certain respects (STL%, AST%, 3pt shooting, FTr, etc) but that wasn't correctly weighed due to him being a Freshman. The eye test was certainly there with his speed and aggressive offensive game.


Brogdon is one of those guys as well. Best deal IMO is bitchboi and shake for brogdon and warren

Brogdon/maxey
Green/curry
Warren/thybulle
Harris/warren/thybulle
Embiid/drummond

Shooting and creating everywhere and still have good defense


I would only take Brogden if future assets were included from Indiana. The only reason why I'd even consider Brogden is because he's on a relatively cheap contract that expires in two years which can be used to flip later for a disgruntled star like Dame or Beal. I'd have little interest in keeping him long-term.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4 

Post#856 » by Sportfan73 » Sat Sep 4, 2021 11:29 pm

eyeatoma wrote:
Slick SickSir wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
Well, he doesn't really strike me as a point guard. He certainly has the handles and his defense has improved markedly since UK/beginning of his rookie year. It's encouraging that he's such a gym rat. That said, someone I've been comparing him to is Collin Sexton because he's not much of a distributor. He's capable of being a secondary distributor because he's not completely terrible in that regard, but he's not great at it.

I'd start Maxey next year and pair him with a large guard with passing capabilities like I was advocating earlier in this thread (Ball/Haliburton). I'm not sure that's going to be available, but I also don't know what we'll get with the inevitable Ben trade. I think 20 ppg, 3 apg, and 3 rpg are possible in his future.

But I'll also fully admit that I was not a big fan of drafting Maxey last year because he fell short in certain respects (STL%, AST%, 3pt shooting, FTr, etc) but that wasn't correctly weighed due to him being a Freshman. The eye test was certainly there with his speed and aggressive offensive game.


Brogdon is one of those guys as well. Best deal IMO is bitchboi and shake for brogdon and warren

Brogdon/maxey
Green/curry
Warren/thybulle
Harris/warren/thybulle
Embiid/drummond

Shooting and creating everywhere and still have good defense


In theory that would be great, but they're both two of the most injury prone players in the league.

That plus like 25 first, 24 and 26 swaps. All day.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4 

Post#857 » by Sportfan73 » Sat Sep 4, 2021 11:30 pm

Embiid P wrote:
Slick SickSir wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
Well, he doesn't really strike me as a point guard. He certainly has the handles and his defense has improved markedly since UK/beginning of his rookie year. It's encouraging that he's such a gym rat. That said, someone I've been comparing him to is Collin Sexton because he's not much of a distributor. He's capable of being a secondary distributor because he's not completely terrible in that regard, but he's not great at it.

I'd start Maxey next year and pair him with a large guard with passing capabilities like I was advocating earlier in this thread (Ball/Haliburton). I'm not sure that's going to be available, but I also don't know what we'll get with the inevitable Ben trade. I think 20 ppg, 3 apg, and 3 rpg are possible in his future.

But I'll also fully admit that I was not a big fan of drafting Maxey last year because he fell short in certain respects (STL%, AST%, 3pt shooting, FTr, etc) but that wasn't correctly weighed due to him being a Freshman. The eye test was certainly there with his speed and aggressive offensive game.


Brogdon is one of those guys as well. Best deal IMO is bitchboi and shake for brogdon and warren

Brogdon/maxey
Green/curry
Warren/thybulle
Harris/warren/thybulle
Embiid/drummond

Shooting and creating everywhere and still have good defense


I would only take Brogden if future assets were included from Indiana. The only reason why I'd even consider Brogden is because he's on a relatively cheap contract that expires in two years which can be used to flip later for a disgruntled star like Dame or Beal. I'd have little interest in keeping him long-term.

Disagree if Maxey became an all star point guard high scorer Brogdon is an absolute perfect fit next to him. I’d extend him 2-3 more years right when we got him then let him go after that
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4 

Post#858 » by Embiid P » Sat Sep 4, 2021 11:33 pm

Sportfan73 wrote:
Embiid P wrote:
Slick SickSir wrote:
Brogdon is one of those guys as well. Best deal IMO is bitchboi and shake for brogdon and warren

Brogdon/maxey
Green/curry
Warren/thybulle
Harris/warren/thybulle
Embiid/drummond

Shooting and creating everywhere and still have good defense


I would only take Brogden if future assets were included from Indiana. The only reason why I'd even consider Brogden is because he's on a relatively cheap contract that expires in two years which can be used to flip later for a disgruntled star like Dame or Beal. I'd have little interest in keeping him long-term.

Disagree if Maxey became an all star point guard high scorer Brogdon is an absolute perfect fit next to him. I’d extend him 2-3 more years right when we got him then let him go after that


When healthy. Hence the problem.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4 

Post#859 » by Slick SickSir » Sat Sep 4, 2021 11:49 pm

Well beggers cant be choosers. We arent going to get our cake and eat it too. There is risks eith everything and we already have an injury prone star.

Brogdon and warren are literal perfect as it gets fits with this team and add absurd fire power to our team. Brogdon is a plus defender and the last year or 2 warren, like tobias, has not been a massive weak link.

Our depth and shooting and defense and creating ability would be the best its ever been.

If our only weakness at that point is hoping for good health then we should consider our selves lucky
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4 

Post#860 » by Kreamy » Sat Sep 4, 2021 11:59 pm

IceManBK1 wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
IceManBK1 wrote:New 3 way with Toronto, Min and Philly:

Vanvleet and Prince and 2 firsts and 1 2nd(Min) to Philly
Maxey, Beasley and Layman and Okogie to Toronto
Simmons to Min

Philly Roster:
Vanvleet
Danny Green
Prince
Tobias Haris
Embiid


This is the one. Thanks, it's perfect.


I changed it, you guys get Vanvleet and Chris Boucher and 2 first and 1 2nd from Minny:)


You keep using Raptors players to try and satisfy what the Sixers need when the Raptors themselves are interested in Simmons. Wolves are essentially the unwanted third wheel in all your trade scenarios. Isn't Beasley in jail for gun charges?

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