Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll

[CoreyGallagher]

So if this is the list of successful NBA players whose game is not predicated on great shooting...

Project Simmons. Will he be as good as or better a shooter from 15 feet and out as some of the guys on this list? Will he be as good of a 3pt shooter as many of the guys on this list?

Most of these guys are respectable 3pt shooters or at least are effective shooters when they a get to "their spot." I see Simmons as a non-shooter like Rubio or Rondo. Simmons is effective scoring from about 8 feet and in, and mostly with his non-shooting hand (his R instead of the L hand he shoots jumpers with.)

No doubt Simmons is freakish enough a talent to be successful despite his shooting concerns And I'm sure he will improve some. But I worry it will make him one of those flawed stars that it is hard to win with and build around. Or maybe he is so freakish that is won't matter.

He has other skills that are conducive to scoring besides a jump shot that some of those other players don't have. He's not a comparable scorer to Rubio, Rubio has never finished well close to the basket. He's perhaps closer to Rondo, but he's 6'10 so it's an impossible comparison to make. Rondo can get to the basket, but then he'd find himself amongst the trees and would have to carefully choose his shots; Simmons is a tree.

[Kolkmania]

Jonathan Givony, who I respect a good deal, says a big concern about Ben Simmons isn't just that he can't shoot, but it has gotten worse over the last 4 years and he rarely works on it. He said when you see him live at shootaround and practices, the guy never shoots. It's all layup drills. He said it's almost like he's embarrassed or ashamed of his shot, and he just thinks it's worrisome that the guy has regressed since getting into college instead of getting better, when a guy like Ingram on the other hand has been getting better.

This actually makes me feel better. This kid has gotten so much attention the last couple of years, every practice session people are watching him. Hitting 20% wide open 3 pointers, would make me feel ashamed as well. Brett Brown would force this kid to shoot every single hour of the day without media attention and if repetition is really the only problem his shooting numbers would rise.

Let's face it. Brandon Ingram is not Kevin Durant, but Ben Simmons is not close to LeBron James either. He has a incredible skill set, but he seems to lack some sort of alpha mentality and willingness to win every game. That might be a problem, since you want your superstar to take control at crucial moments (still 19 years old though).

[FlightBrothers]

Jonathan Givony, who I respect a good deal, says a big concern about Ben Simmons isn't just that he can't shoot, but it has gotten worse over the last 4 years and he rarely works on it. He said when you see him live at shootaround and practices, the guy never shoots. It's all layup drills. He said it's almost like he's embarrassed or ashamed of his shot, and he just thinks it's worrisome that the guy has regressed since getting into college instead of getting better, when a guy like Ingram on the other hand has been getting better.

This actually makes me feel better. This kid has gotten so much attention the last couple of years, every practice session people are watching him. Hitting 20% wide open 3 pointers, would make me feel ashamed as well. Brett Brown would force this kid to shoot every single hour of the day without media attention and if repetition is really the only problem his shooting numbers would rise.

Let's face it. Brandon Ingram is not Kevin Durant, but Ben Simmons is not close to LeBron James either. He has a incredible skill set, but he seems to lack some sort of alpha mentality and willingness to win every game. That might be a problem, since you want your superstar to take control at crucial moments (still 19 years old though).

Health aside, I am sure Embiid has no problem being the alpha.

[FreakMaster]

I don't get the Ben Simmons love. If I were the Sixers I'd take Kris Dunn and enjoy the next D. Wade vs drafting Simmons and end up booing him out of town.

It's not like LSU doesn't have a basketball reputation. They've had plenty of NBAr's come from there. Simmons doesn't dominate in any fashion of the game. Keep him from driving to the paint, and force him to take shots and his scoring avg will be mediocre at best. His ole defense doesn't help either. He's too timid to be a #1, and if the Sixers are banking on his upside, they'll be waiting a few yrs before they actually see it.

What the Sixers need is some shooters to space the floor. Dunn, Jamal Murray or Buddy Hield would be better fits, and they come to the NBA as proven leaders... well Hield and Dunn does.

Thankfully you aren't a Sixers FO. Taking Dunn, Murray, or Hield at 1 is a damn reach. Also, you draft BPA and forget about this fit nonsense.

What makes Simmons the BPA? Is it due to his height? Simmons went head to head with Hield and Hield scored 32 pts & 8 vs Simmons 14/9/5 in a losing effort at home.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMSFYVKH1rY[/youtube]

[sixers23]

I don't get the Ben Simmons love. If I were the Sixers I'd take Kris Dunn and enjoy the next D. Wade vs drafting Simmons and end up booing him out of town.

It's not like LSU doesn't have a basketball reputation. They've had plenty of NBAr's come from there. Simmons doesn't dominate in any fashion of the game. Keep him from driving to the paint, and force him to take shots and his scoring avg will be mediocre at best. His ole defense doesn't help either. He's too timid to be a #1, and if the Sixers are banking on his upside, they'll be waiting a few yrs before they actually see it.

What the Sixers need is some shooters to space the floor. Dunn, Jamal Murray or Buddy Hield would be better fits, and they come to the NBA as proven leaders... well Hield and Dunn does.

Thankfully you aren't a Sixers FO. Taking Dunn, Murray, or Hield at 1 is a damn reach. Also, you draft BPA and forget about this fit nonsense.

What makes Simmons the BPA? Is it due to his height? Simmons went head to head with Hield and Hield scored 32 pts & 8 vs Simmons 14/9/5 in a losing effort at home.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMSFYVKH1rY[/youtube]

You realize Heild is a 23 year old senior on a much better team? What a stupid argument to make

[joyeuxnoel]

I don't get the Ben Simmons love. If I were the Sixers I'd take Kris Dunn and enjoy the next D. Wade vs drafting Simmons and end up booing him out of town.

It's not like LSU doesn't have a basketball reputation. They've had plenty of NBAr's come from there. Simmons doesn't dominate in any fashion of the game. Keep him from driving to the paint, and force him to take shots and his scoring avg will be mediocre at best. His ole defense doesn't help either. He's too timid to be a #1, and if the Sixers are banking on his upside, they'll be waiting a few yrs before they actually see it.

What the Sixers need is some shooters to space the floor. Dunn, Jamal Murray or Buddy Hield would be better fits, and they come to the NBA as proven leaders... well Hield and Dunn does.

Thankfully you aren't a Sixers FO. Taking Dunn, Murray, or Hield at 1 is a damn reach. Also, you draft BPA and forget about this fit nonsense.

What makes Simmons the BPA? Is it due to his height? Simmons went head to head with Hield and Hield scored 32 pts & 8 vs Simmons 14/9/5 in a losing effort at home.

youre comparing a SG and a forward

youre comparing a senior and a freshman in college


il stop right there

[bedjawII]

Thankfully you aren't a Sixers FO. Taking Dunn, Murray, or Hield at 1 is a damn reach. Also, you draft BPA and forget about this fit nonsense.

What makes Simmons the BPA? Is it due to his height? Simmons went head to head with Hield and Hield scored 32 pts & 8 vs Simmons 14/9/5 in a losing effort at home.

youre comparing a SG and a forward

youre comparing a senior and a freshman in college


il stop right there

And how did Hield do against Josh Hart?

[FreakMaster]

I don't get the Ben Simmons love. If I were the Sixers I'd take Kris Dunn and enjoy the next D. Wade vs drafting Simmons and end up booing him out of town.

It's not like LSU doesn't have a basketball reputation. They've had plenty of NBAr's come from there. Simmons doesn't dominate in any fashion of the game. Keep him from driving to the paint, and force him to take shots and his scoring avg will be mediocre at best. His ole defense doesn't help either. He's too timid to be a #1, and if the Sixers are banking on his upside, they'll be waiting a few yrs before they actually see it.

What the Sixers need is some shooters to space the floor. Dunn, Jamal Murray or Buddy Hield would be better fits, and they come to the NBA as proven leaders... well Hield and Dunn does.

Thankfully you aren't a Sixers FO. Taking Dunn, Murray, and Hield at 1 is a damn reach. Also, you draft BPA and forget about this fit nonsense.

Fit should mean absolutely nothing. It hasn't mattered the past 3 years and shouldn't now.

We have 0 roster continuity. Its a blank canvas. We have 3 high level center prospects. They don't fit together at all in an optimal scenario and the most talented one (Embiid) is 1 more foot injury away from never playing again.

Outside of that, we have a combo forward POSSIBLY coming over and a bunch of 2nd round picks who can in all likelihood, kick rocks if they don't fit with our franchise player(s).

Fit hasn't mattered to the Sixers because they are always drafting the BPA. If they drafted for fit, they wouldn't have drafted 3 centers and no guards with their lottery picks over the past 3 yrs. When the Sixers did draft a PG he fit. MCW was rookie of the year by a landslide.

I like Philly's upside, and they are due to have a breakout yr sooner than later, but to draft Simmons vs Dunn or Hield would set the team back 3 yrs, due to Simmons isn't ready for the NBA. He's another Dante Exum only taller. Hype over hope.

[freshie2]

Is there any irony over the focus on Simmons jumper when LBJ is dominating a series while the combined distance on his shot is 28 feet...slightly over the distance for one 3pt shot??

Ingram is fine. Simmons is fine, let's grasp reality a bit on some of the comments.

BTW, Christian Laettner dominated Shaq in a college game...who are you picking??

BPA has ruled the day since the Blazers passed on Jordan because they already had Drexler. Football draft is for fit as much as talent as it is an entirely different game. Basketball only has 5 guys on the floor, so you want the best talent and figure out the 'fit' once the draft is over.

[tk76]

He has other skills that are conducive to scoring besides a jump shot that some of those other players don't have. He's not a comparable scorer to Rubio, Rubio has never finished well close to the basket. He's perhaps closer to Rondo, but he's 6'10 so it's an impossible comparison to make. Rondo can get to the basket, but then he'd find himself amongst the trees and would have to carefully choose his shots; Simmons is a tree.

Sure. But I'm not debating whether he is more talented that Rubio or Rondo. I'm comparing him to that list of elite productive wings and point forwards whose game is not predicated on shooting that was included above. I'm saying that as a shooter is does not project to be in the class of Lebron, Butler or Melo. As a shooter he seems more likely to be like Rondo or Rubio. Do you disagree?

[CoreyGallagher]

Sure. But I'm not debating whether he is more talented that Rubio or Rondo. I'm comparing him to that list of elite productive wings and point forwards whose game is not predicated on shooting that was included above. I'm saying that as a shooter is does not project to be in the class of Lebron, Butler or Melo. As a shooter he seems more likely to be like Rondo or Rubio. Do you disagree?

It's not a matter of being more talented, he's taller so even by being what they are as scorers and creating his scoring opportunities (or getting to the basket) similarly as they do he should be more effective than they are just by being bigger imo.

Also, I'm not writing off Simmons ever adding a jump shot, from what I can find he shot 15-51, 29%, from 3 in as a Senior in HS(?), that's not great even for a big, but it's at least something. You mentioned Jimmy Butler, he didn't have as much of an opportunity as Simmons did as a Freshmen in college, but he shot 0-4 from 3 (Simmons 1-3).

[joyeuxnoel]

Is there any irony over the focus on Simmons jumper when LBJ is dominating a series while the combined distance on his shot is 28 feet...slightly over the distance for one 3pt shot??

Ingram is fine. Simmons is fine, let's grasp reality a bit on some of the comments.

BTW, Christian Laettner dominated Shaq in a college game...who are you picking??

BPA has ruled the day since the Blazers passed on Jordan because they already had Drexler. Football draft is for fit as much as talent as it is an entirely different game. Basketball only has 5 guys on the floor, so you want the best talent and figure out the 'fit' once the draft is over.

great post. simmons and embiid are going to be the franchise guys.

saric is going to be a great complimentary piece, so you keep him

okafor and noel are trade pieces, only problem is okafor also has franchise potential, but isnt a great fit with simmons/embiid

you also cant trade both okafor and noel because you need one of them to be insurance incase embiid goes down.

[phiphan]

I'm back on the Simmons train after a long time riding with Ingram. If Simmons develops even a mediocre jumpshot he's an excellent, maybe even great, player.

[Unbreakable99]

I'm really baffled that many people think this is such a tough decision. Simmons is clearly the best prospect and he will go to us at pick 1. Thankfully BB and BC favor Simmons and know he's better.

[sixers23]

Don't post like that. Personal attacks are not tolerated.

viewtopic.php?f=191&t=1267696

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[joyeuxnoel]

I'm back on the Simmons train after a long time riding with Ingram. If Simmons develops even a mediocre jumpshot he's an excellent, maybe even great, player.

and brett brown's coaching staff will get simmons to become at least a mediocre shooter

[Arsenal]

BEN SIMMONS

[joyeuxnoel]

I'm really baffled that many people think this is such a tough decision. Simmons is clearly the best prospect and he will go to us at pick 1. Thankfully BB and BC favor Simmons and know he's better.

BC wants him at PF though

[sixers23]

I'm really baffled that many people think this is such a tough decision. Simmons is clearly the best prospect and he will go to us at pick 1. Thankfully BB and BC favor Simmons and know he's better.

BC wants him at PF though

positions are for defense him being pf doesnt mean he wont runt he offense

[FreakMaster]

Thankfully you aren't a Sixers FO. Taking Dunn, Murray, or Hield at 1 is a damn reach. Also, you draft BPA and forget about this fit nonsense.

What makes Simmons the BPA? Is it due to his height? Simmons went head to head with Hield and Hield scored 32 pts & 8 vs Simmons 14/9/5 in a losing effort at home.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMSFYVKH1rY[/youtube]

You realize Heild is a 23 year old senior on a much better team? What a stupid argument to make

When was the last time a #1 draft pick was chosen from a team that didn't make the NCAA tournament (HS picks excluded)? Simmons will be facing grown men 23 yrs old and older...When he flops against them, will you use the same age argument then?