Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll

[eagereyez]

Sure. But I'm not debating whether he is more talented that Rubio or Rondo. I'm comparing him to that list of elite productive wings and point forwards whose game is not predicated on shooting that was included above. I'm saying that as a shooter is does not project to be in the class of Lebron, Butler or Melo. As a shooter he seems more likely to be like Rondo or Rubio. Do you disagree?

It's not a matter of being more talented, he's taller so even by being what they are as scorers and creating his scoring opportunities (or getting to the basket) similarly as they do he should be more effective than they are just by being bigger imo.

Also, I'm not writing off Simmons ever adding a jump shot, from what I can find he shot 15-51, 29%, from 3 in as a Senior in HS(?), that's not great even for a big, but it's at least something. You mentioned Jimmy Butler, he didn't have as much of an opportunity as Simmons did as a Freshmen in college, but he shot 0-4 from 3 (Simmons 1-3).

Yeah I'm not getting the Rondo comparison at all lol. Rondo is shooting 40% from the line after how many years in the league? Simmons took 300 FTA's in college and hit 68% of them. There is reason to hope that Simmons will add a jumper to his game. Also it's not like he's a 6'1 guard. He's a 6'10 power forward. There is much less need for him to add a jumper to his game, although obviously it would help.

[CoreyGallagher]

When was the last time a #1 draft pick was chosen from a team that didn't make the NCAA tournament (HS picks excluded)? Simmons will be facing grown men 23 yrs old and older...When he flops against them, will you use the same age argument then?

Nerlens Noel*, but it's an unusual situation as usually top prospects go to better schools/teams (*Noel got injured). Simmons went to LSU because - well, I'm not sure why - but I know his Godfather coached there. I do know that the current best player in the league and MVP - Stephen Curry - finished his college career by playing in the NIT as a Junior, so it didn't end well for him after a few seasons of going to the tournament.

Regarding the team just to put into some form of perspective -

Shane Battier, Anthony Davis and Greg Oden, for instance, generated almost exactly 25 percent of their teams’ win shares when they blazed a path to the championship game. Simmons has been a bit less productive than that trio on a per-minute basis, but he’s also generated 33 percent of LSU’s win shares this season, with his teammates creating roughly 45 percent fewer wins per game than those of Battier, Davis and Oden. If Simmons had anything close to their supporting casts, LSU probably wouldn’t be fretting about Selection Sunday.

[joyeuxnoel]

I'm really baffled that many people think this is such a tough decision. Simmons is clearly the best prospect and he will go to us at pick 1. Thankfully BB and BC favor Simmons and know he's better.

BC wants him at PF though

positions are for defense him being pf doesnt mean he wont runt he offense

yeah but hes an awful fit at defense at pf, good fit at sf

[phiphan]

BC wants him at PF though

positions are for defense him being pf doesnt mean he wont runt he offense

yeah but hes an awful fit at defense at pf, good fit at sf

Curious what makes you say this. Length?

[joyeuxnoel]

positions are for defense him being pf doesnt mean he wont runt he offense

yeah but hes an awful fit at defense at pf, good fit at sf

Curious what makes you say this. Length?

his length is a big part of it, hes not going to be a rim protector at the next level. he does a great job of sliding his feet and his lateral quickness is pretty good for a 6'10 guy. he struggled at LSU when switching on PnRs and screens because he was lazy.

with a little motivation, hes going to be a good perimeter defender and wont have to worry about getting abused down low (he also shut down top tier PGs in high school)

[Sportfan73]

yeah but hes an awful fit at defense at pf, good fit at sf

Curious what makes you say this. Length?

his length is a big part of it, hes not going to be a rim protector at the next level. he does a great job of sliding his feet and his lateral quickness is pretty good for a 6'10 guy. he struggled at LSU when switching on PnRs and screens because he was lazy.

with a little motivation, hes going to be a good perimeter defender and wont have to worry about getting abused down low (he also shut down top tier PGs in high school)

Yeah I think he's going to have to guard wings until his body matures.

[phiphan]

I think we'd be ok with rim protection with Embiid or Noel at center. Simmons is a horrible fit at PF next to Okafor though. I like Simmons at PF since he's in a better position to use a couple of his best skills -- rebounding, and taking the board full court to make a play. At 240 and already pretty developed, I don't see him getting bodied too hard at PF.

[tk76]

He's a 6'10 power forward. There is much less need for him to add a jumper to his game, although obviously it would help.

Simmons is big, but that does not mean he can dominate without an effective jumper. There are guys who live in the post who are criticized for having limited shooting range. And Simmons won't be living in the lane. To be a star, he will be be operating as a point forward working from the perimeter. And there are no recent NBA superstars who opperate from the perimeter and can't shoot either from 3pt or at least deep midrange. Simmons has a nice R handed push shot in the lane. But that alone will not be enough in the pros. He won't have a shot chart that looks like this at the NBA level:




Even if Simmons is as good as Lebron at getting into the paint... even Lebron takes a ton of shots outside the paint:
A bit dated...
http://vorped.com/1-nba/2014-2015/player/837/lebron-james/

[sixers23]

What makes Simmons the BPA? Is it due to his height? Simmons went head to head with Hield and Hield scored 32 pts & 8 vs Simmons 14/9/5 in a losing effort at home.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMSFYVKH1rY[/youtube]

You realize Heild is a 23 year old senior on a much better team? What a stupid argument to make

When was the last time a #1 draft pick was chosen from a team that didn't make the NCAA tournament (HS picks excluded)? Simmons will be facing grown men 23 yrs old and older...When he flops against them, will you use the same age argument then?

he didnt flop at all he had historic numbers

[FreakMaster]

When was the last time a #1 draft pick was chosen from a team that didn't make the NCAA tournament (HS picks excluded)? Simmons will be facing grown men 23 yrs old and older...When he flops against them, will you use the same age argument then?

Nerlens Noel*, but it's an unusual situation as usually top prospects go to better schools/teams (*Noel got injured). Simmons went to LSU because - well, I'm not sure why - but I know his Godfather coached there. I do know that the current best player in the league and MVP - Stephen Curry - finished his college career by playing in the NIT as a Junior, so it didn't end well for him after a few seasons of going to the tournament.

Regarding the team just to put into some form of perspective -

Shane Battier, Anthony Davis and Greg Oden, for instance, generated almost exactly 25 percent of their teams’ win shares when they blazed a path to the championship game. Simmons has been a bit less productive than that trio on a per-minute basis, but he’s also generated 33 percent of LSU’s win shares this season, with his teammates creating roughly 45 percent fewer wins per game than those of Battier, Davis and Oden. If Simmons had anything close to their supporting casts, LSU probably wouldn’t be fretting about Selection Sunday.

Was Nerlens Noel a #1 draft pick? Didn't he attend KU?
LSU is a basketball pwrhse in the NCAA. They are not the fluke school to use as an excuse for Simmons not leading them into the tournament. The more I read about his poor choice in schools to play basketball I recall other NBA players who played on the same campus that Simmons has.

Shaq
Big Baby Davis
Tyrus Thomas
Stromile Swift
Ricky Blanton
Anthony Randolph
Chris Jackson
Brandon Bass
Pistol Pete
and others

The only reason I know this is because I grad from LSU yrs ago.
Last season my Chicago Bulls drafted Bobby Portis with the 22nd pick. He was the SEC POY over Karl Anthony Towns and he played for Arkansas. That Arkansas team wasn't as talented as Simmons LSU Tigers team was, yet he was still able to lead them to the tournament. If a number 1 pick couldn't dominate the game in college 3 mts ago, what makes you think he's going to dominate in the pros 6 mts from now?

[05PhillyAI]

Anyone who is dead red that the Sixers are taking Simmons have something coming. Unless Colangelo is planning on trading Saric and Okafor/Noel, Simmons doesn't make nearly as much sense as Ingram. The argument that "all they will need is shooters to surround Simmons" is partially true but it's not that easy to do so. Shooting is at a premium in the league right now and the teams who have true shooters aren't going to get rid of them unless a team overpays them. Would Play Thompson look awesome next to Simmons? F yea. Just not realistic. Ingram is going to be one of the best scorers in the NBA during his tenure. He needs to be the pick.

[sixers23]

When was the last time a #1 draft pick was chosen from a team that didn't make the NCAA tournament (HS picks excluded)? Simmons will be facing grown men 23 yrs old and older...When he flops against them, will you use the same age argument then?

Nerlens Noel*, but it's an unusual situation as usually top prospects go to better schools/teams (*Noel got injured). Simmons went to LSU because - well, I'm not sure why - but I know his Godfather coached there. I do know that the current best player in the league and MVP - Stephen Curry - finished his college career by playing in the NIT as a Junior, so it didn't end well for him after a few seasons of going to the tournament.

Regarding the team just to put into some form of perspective -

Shane Battier, Anthony Davis and Greg Oden, for instance, generated almost exactly 25 percent of their teams’ win shares when they blazed a path to the championship game. Simmons has been a bit less productive than that trio on a per-minute basis, but he’s also generated 33 percent of LSU’s win shares this season, with his teammates creating roughly 45 percent fewer wins per game than those of Battier, Davis and Oden. If Simmons had anything close to their supporting casts, LSU probably wouldn’t be fretting about Selection Sunday.

Was Nerlens Noel a #1 draft pick? Didn't he attend KU?
LSU is a basketball pwrhse in the NCAA. They are not the fluke school to use as an excuse for Simmons not leading them into the tournament. The more I read about his poor choice in schools to play basketball I recall other NBA players who played on the same campus that Simmons has.

Shaq
Big Baby Davis
Tyrus Thomas
Stromile Swift
Ricky Blanton
Anthony Randolph
Chris Jackson
Brandon Bass
Pistol Pete
and others

The only reason I know this is because I grad from LSU yrs ago.
Last season my Chicago Bulls drafted Bobby Portis with the 22nd pick. He was the SEC POY over Karl Anthony Towns and he played for Arkansas. That Arkansas team wasn't as talented as Simmons LSU Tigers team was, yet he was still able to lead them to the tournament. If a number 1 pick couldn't dominate the game in college 3 mts ago, what makes you think he's going to dominate in the pros 6 mts from now?

what in the world does players who played at lsu years ago have to do witht his season? his team was dreadful and the only decent shooter was hurt and when he wasnt hurt they were killing it

simmons did dominate the college game more so than any freshman ever basically

[sixers23]

Anyone who is dead red that the Sixers are taking Simmons have something coming. Unless Colangelo is planning on trading Saric and Okafor/Noel, Simmons doesn't make nearly as much sense as Ingram. The argument that "all they will need is shooters to surround Simmons" is partially true but it's not that easy to do so. Shooting is at a premium in the league right now and the teams who have true shooters aren't going to get rid of them unless a team overpays them. Would Play Thompson look awesome next to Simmons? F yea. Just not realistic. Ingram is going to be one of the best scorers in the NBA during his tenure. He needs to be the pick.

you dont get the number 1 pick and draft for fit. simmons play a position we have zero current players at anyway

[CoreyGallagher]

Was Nerlens Noel a #1 draft pick? Didn't he attend KU?

Lol, my brain! I was referring to #1 ranked prospects in college when I typed that, my mistake. He did attend Kentucky, why does that matter?

LSU is a basketball pwrhse in the NCAA.

They weren't this season.

They are not the fluke school to use as an excuse for Simmons not leading them into the tournament. The more I read about his poor choice in schools to play basketball I recall other NBA players who played on the same campus that Simmons has.

Shaq
Big Baby Davis
Tyrus Thomas
Stromile Swift
Ricky Blanton
Anthony Randolph
Chris Jackson
Brandon Bass
Pistol Pete
and others

The only reason I know this is because I grad from LSU yrs ago.

Past isn't relevant to present.

Last season my Chicago Bulls drafted Bobby Portis with the 22nd pick. He was the SEC POY over Karl Anthony Towns and he played for Arkansas. That Arkansas team wasn't as talented as Simmons LSU Tigers team was, yet he was still able to lead them to the tournament. If a number 1 pick can't dominate the game in college 3 mts ago, what makes you think he's going to dominate in the pros 6 mts from now?

KAT played 21.1 mpg. Maybe the LSU team was better than Arkansas, idk, but Portis only accounted for 24.8% of team's WS, contrast that to the bit I cited above. It's inexact, obviously, but it gives you an idea of how much responsibility that player had for their respective teams.

[phiphan]

Even if Simmons is as good as Lebron at getting into the paint... even Lebron takes a ton of shots outside the paint:
http://vorped.com/1-nba/2014-2015/player/837/lebron-james/

How about Griffin as a shooting comp?:

[Ericb5]

Anyone who is dead red that the Sixers are taking Simmons have something coming. Unless Colangelo is planning on trading Saric and Okafor/Noel, Simmons doesn't make nearly as much sense as Ingram. The argument that "all they will need is shooters to surround Simmons" is partially true but it's not that easy to do so. Shooting is at a premium in the league right now and the teams who have true shooters aren't going to get rid of them unless a team overpays them. Would Play Thompson look awesome next to Simmons? F yea. Just not realistic. Ingram is going to be one of the best scorers in the NBA during his tenure. He needs to be the pick.

The Sixers are not currently a basketball team. They are a collection of parts.

You take the best player and add him to the collection of parts. Then you move around the parts to build a team.

I don't care how Simmons fits. He is a franchise changing superstar that you adapt to.

We aren't going to need to win a playoff series next season. In the NBA trades happe. All of the time.

We will need to make one or two trades most likely but there is nothing keeping us from doing that.

[tk76]

Griffin is an interesting comp and a fairly unique player in that he is at times a ball handler and at other times an elite finisher.

Griffin works great with CP3, but I'm not sure you would look to pair Simmons with a floor general type PG.

[Unbreakable99]

What makes Simmons the BPA? Is it due to his height? Simmons went head to head with Hield and Hield scored 32 pts & 8 vs Simmons 14/9/5 in a losing effort at home.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMSFYVKH1rY[/youtube]

You realize Heild is a 23 year old senior on a much better team? What a stupid argument to make

When was the last time a #1 draft pick was chosen from a team that didn't make the NCAA tournament (HS picks excluded)? Simmons will be facing grown men 23 yrs old and older...When he flops against them, will you use the same age argument then?

Steph Curry didn't make the NCAA tournament his last year at Davidson. I guess he's not that good. Oh wait.

[Unbreakable99]

Anyone who is dead red that the Sixers are taking Simmons have something coming. Unless Colangelo is planning on trading Saric and Okafor/Noel, Simmons doesn't make nearly as much sense as Ingram. The argument that "all they will need is shooters to surround Simmons" is partially true but it's not that easy to do so. Shooting is at a premium in the league right now and the teams who have true shooters aren't going to get rid of them unless a team overpays them. Would Play Thompson look awesome next to Simmons? F yea. Just not realistic. Ingram is going to be one of the best scorers in the NBA during his tenure. He needs to be the pick.

You're going to be in a world of shock come draft day. You can have your fun now for the next month. It we are taking Simmons. All this talk is just that...talk. It's pretty clear we are taking Simmons.

[Ericb5]

Anyone who is dead red that the Sixers are taking Simmons have something coming. Unless Colangelo is planning on trading Saric and Okafor/Noel, Simmons doesn't make nearly as much sense as Ingram. The argument that "all they will need is shooters to surround Simmons" is partially true but it's not that easy to do so. Shooting is at a premium in the league right now and the teams who have true shooters aren't going to get rid of them unless a team overpays them. Would Play Thompson look awesome next to Simmons? F yea. Just not realistic. Ingram is going to be one of the best scorers in the NBA during his tenure. He needs to be the pick.

you dont get the number 1 pick and draft for fit. simmons play a position we have zero current players at anyway

Point forward is a position that most teams don't have simply because it is the rare player that can do it.

Simmons isn't a small forward, and he isn't a power forward. He is a point forward. He is more like Lebron than any other player in the league.

The real question becomes which position does he defend. I don't see any reason why he can't guard the 3 most of the time. If he can't then Okafor definitely needs to be traded.

My problems with Okafor are that I don't know how well he will be able to guard the 4, and obviously he can't guard the 3. Ideally you would pair Simmons with another forward that can guard both spots, and shoot a bit. I'm not closing the door on Okafor's ability to shoot though.

Okafor already has pressure on him due to needing to fit with Embiid. Adding Simmons to the mix just increases that pressure, but it doesn't mean that it can't work.

The guards would both have to be good shooters though.