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Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll

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Simmons or Ingram

Simmons
137
56%
Ingram
106
44%
 
Total votes: 243

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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#921 » by phiphan » Fri May 20, 2016 5:29 pm

FreakMaster wrote:
Unbreakable99 wrote:
FreakMaster wrote:
Yes, but Steph Curry led his team to the elite eight the yr before, and Davidson college is a relatively unknown school in basketball circles and one who doesn't recruit blue chip players. LSU recruited 2 last yr.


So Steph can make the tournament his freshman and sophomore seasons but not his juniors season? Hmmm. I don't like him. He sounds overrated to me. I don't think he will be that good in the NBA.


I think the hype on Simmons has overruled logic. He may turn out to be a good pro. He has the height, ball handling ability and he can see the floor well. However, a number one draft pick is often the face of the franchise, and is expected to contribute right away.


I guess refuting your terrible arguments means that Sixers' fans have bought into the Simmons hype. OK, point taken. Now please leave.
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#922 » by Negrodamus » Fri May 20, 2016 5:34 pm

I'm having similar feelings to how I did when we drafted Turner over Cousins/Favors/etc in 2010.

Obviously Simmons is a superior prospect to Turner, but I had built enough of a case in my head against Turner to feel apathetic about/resigned to picking him instead of excited. I also had this feeling about Wiggins too, so take that for what it's worth. He's a 20 ppg scorer in the league.
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#923 » by Negrodamus » Fri May 20, 2016 5:43 pm

Ericb5 wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
LongLiveHinkie wrote:Jonathan Givony, who I respect a good deal, says a big concern about Ben Simmons isn't just that he can't shoot, but it has gotten worse over the last 4 years and he rarely works on it. He said when you see him live at shootaround and practices, the guy never shoots. It's all layup drills. He said it's almost like he's embarrassed or ashamed of his shot, and he just thinks it's worrisome that the guy has regressed since getting into college instead of getting better, when a guy like Ingram on the other hand has been getting better.


This is what I was saying in a more verbose way earlier. He's had a year since HS ended and I don't see any marked improvement in his deficiencies.

Say what you want about Ingram's size, but the guy made an effort to get bigger before the CBB season started which was one of his biggest red flags.


He has also had another year confirming his notion that he can do whatever he needed to do to get to the basket, and didn't need to shoot it.

He will need to shoot it in the NBA to be a superstar, but he didn't need to do it in college. His lack of shooting was more a function of his prowess as a driver, than his inability to do it.

He will have to expand his game in the pros, and Brett Brown is qualified to coach him up.


So he had another year of the status quo.

You're right, he will need to shoot it in the NBA, and shoot it decently (I'm not even talking from 3 pt land). In fact, that might be the #1 thing that will make drafting him first overall all worthwhile. Based on what I've seen, I'm not encouraged.
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#924 » by FreakMaster » Fri May 20, 2016 5:44 pm

phiphan wrote:
FreakMaster wrote:
Unbreakable99 wrote:
So Steph can make the tournament his freshman and sophomore seasons but not his juniors season? Hmmm. I don't like him. He sounds overrated to me. I don't think he will be that good in the NBA.


I think the hype on Simmons has overruled logic. He may turn out to be a good pro. He has the height, ball handling ability and he can see the floor well. However, a number one draft pick is often the face of the franchise, and is expected to contribute right away.


I guess refuting your terrible arguments means that Sixers' fans have bought into the Simmons hype. OK, point taken. Now please leave.


C'mon now! Be nice. This is a Simmons vs Ingram thread, not a Phiphan forum.
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#925 » by 05PhillyAI » Fri May 20, 2016 5:52 pm

Unbreakable99 wrote:
05PhillyAI wrote:Anyone who is dead red that the Sixers are taking Simmons have something coming. Unless Colangelo is planning on trading Saric and Okafor/Noel, Simmons doesn't make nearly as much sense as Ingram. The argument that "all they will need is shooters to surround Simmons" is partially true but it's not that easy to do so. Shooting is at a premium in the league right now and the teams who have true shooters aren't going to get rid of them unless a team overpays them. Would Play Thompson look awesome next to Simmons? F yea. Just not realistic. Ingram is going to be one of the best scorers in the NBA during his tenure. He needs to be the pick.


You're going to be in a world of shock come draft day. You can have your fun now for the next month. It we are taking Simmons. All this talk is just that...talk. It's pretty clear we are taking Simmons.



Whatever you say man. Ingram will be the better pro when it's all said and done. And if you are referring to a Lakers writer who has the Sixers "favoring" Simmons a month before the draft, well...I'd hope you aren't that gullible when a random phone call asks for you social security number.
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#926 » by MGB8 » Fri May 20, 2016 5:53 pm

SIMMONS IS NOT LIKE LEBRON.

People need to stop with that comparison. It's lazy. It's just hyping Simmons. He doesn't play like Lebron. He's not as athletic as Lebron. The fact that he's big and he can pass, and that he crashes the lane, is where you can make the comparison.

Lebron was always a wing - heck, he could have played SG when he came into the league. He moves like a wing. He's evolved into a combo forward because he's now 31 years old, rather than 19. He can still guard 1-4 and some 5s.

Simmons comes in as a 3/4 tweaner - along the lines of Luol Deng, Thadeus Young, Jabari Parker, Michael Beasley, Josh Smith, Blake Griffin and Giannis. But unlike Giannis (and unlike Lebron), Simmons can't guard 1-4... he can guard 3's and 4's, and some 5's.

He's not nearly quick enough or athletic enough to guard 1's or 2's on the regular. Zone can help some, but he also lacks the length you'd want to sort of "overcompensate" for lack of quick feet.



Ericb5 wrote:
sixers23 wrote:
05PhillyAI wrote:Anyone who is dead red that the Sixers are taking Simmons have something coming. Unless Colangelo is planning on trading Saric and Okafor/Noel, Simmons doesn't make nearly as much sense as Ingram. The argument that "all they will need is shooters to surround Simmons" is partially true but it's not that easy to do so. Shooting is at a premium in the league right now and the teams who have true shooters aren't going to get rid of them unless a team overpays them. Would Play Thompson look awesome next to Simmons? F yea. Just not realistic. Ingram is going to be one of the best scorers in the NBA during his tenure. He needs to be the pick.

you dont get the number 1 pick and draft for fit. simmons play a position we have zero current players at anyway


Point forward is a position that most teams don't have simply because it is the rare player that can do it.

Simmons isn't a small forward, and he isn't a power forward. He is a point forward. He is more like Lebron than any other player in the league.

The real question becomes which position does he defend. I don't see any reason why he can't guard the 3 most of the time. If he can't then Okafor definitely needs to be traded.

My problems with Okafor are that I don't know how well he will be able to guard the 4, and obviously he can't guard the 3. Ideally you would pair Simmons with another forward that can guard both spots, and shoot a bit. I'm not closing the door on Okafor's ability to shoot though.

Okafor already has pressure on him due to needing to fit with Embiid. Adding Simmons to the mix just increases that pressure, but it doesn't mean that it can't work.

The guards would both have to be good shooters though.
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#927 » by MGB8 » Fri May 20, 2016 6:07 pm

Look, Simmons has the higher upside between him and Ingram, because of build.

If Simmons learns how to play defense very well - he was awful last year - and he doesn't lose much quickness as he ages - and he learns how to shoot well (better than say, Thad Young or Iggy or Blake Griffin developed - more along the lines of Kawhi or some of the other very rare types), then, because of his size, build and natural quickness, he could be a superstar. Not a Lebron, but somewhere in that elite range.

But you could have said the same thing for Tyrus Thomas. Or James Johnson. Or Josh Smith, who is similarly sized and a better athlete than Simmons.

Meanwhile, if Ingram adds the normal amount of bulk players add, and improves his ability to handle a little bit, along with his ability to take a hit in the lane, he's in that same tier, but a notch below, just because of his shooting and length and what he's already demonstrated in terms of handling and passing. Between his ISO ability and his shooting, he opens up any offense, and makes other players much more effective.

The notion that Simmons is some guaranteed superstar is about as much stupidity as I have seen on realgm. The red flags are really big - including the fact that he scored and rebounded tons on a garbage team, during garbage time while being blown out - kind of like MCW while he was here. His play against better competition does not scream "superstar."

The notion that you have to swing for the superstar, rather than the guy with a slightly lower ceiling, but much higher floor, in Ingram - who also doesn't force you to complete re-work your roster (where you'll lose on most of your trades, or let people walk for nothing).... well, that's the kind of thinking that got the Bulls to take Tyrus Thomas over LaMarcus Aldridge.

You miss on Simmons and he plays at his floor - a Josh Smith with more passing but worse defense - you set the Sixers back another 5 years. You miss on Ingram and he plays at his floor - a better version of Robert Covington - and the Sixers can still be a winning team if either Embiid or Okafor develop, and you add a good PG.
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#928 » by Negrodamus » Fri May 20, 2016 6:11 pm

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHB3QKOKV6Y[/youtube]

Will there be enough room in the locker room for his documentary crew?

EDIT: Posted the wrong video
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#930 » by FreesFro » Fri May 20, 2016 7:28 pm

I understand that Simmons' numbers fell from the huge numbers he put in non-conference play once SEC play started, but stop making it sound like he struggled and fell off the face of the earth.
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#931 » by sixers hoops » Fri May 20, 2016 7:31 pm

Unbreakable99 wrote:Excellent article on Simmons.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/Coach15602825/ben-simmons-nba-ceiling


I was just going to post this. Again, I am not impressed with Summons, but I believe we are going to draft him so I am trying to get excited about it.
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#932 » by LongLiveHinkie » Fri May 20, 2016 7:41 pm

Even though I lean Ingram, I don't think he's going to be special either, so I'm really not going to be all that disappointed either way. I don't see any transcendent talents in this draft. I think Simmons has the better chance to be that, because at best I think Ingram is a lesser version of Durant. A very good player, and an all-star if he reaches his potential, but I don't see superstar. However, I also think Simmons has a greater chance of being a bust.

Just wish we could have gotten that #1 pick last year instead of this year.
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#933 » by Stanford » Fri May 20, 2016 7:43 pm

Just rewatch some 2016 Sixers games and imagine how much better things would have been with a 6'10" dude who can grab a defensive board and make a play happen in transition. We barely had a point guard who could do that.
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#934 » by Unbreakable99 » Fri May 20, 2016 7:44 pm

Simmons is going to be very special. He's going to be better than Towns.
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#935 » by ExplosionsInDaSky » Fri May 20, 2016 7:59 pm

Unbreakable99 wrote:Simmons is going to be very special. He's going to be better than Towns.


We disagree on Okafor, but I completely agree with you on Simmons. He's way too talented to fail, kid is going to be an all star by his second season. He's a plug in superstar from day one. 53-47 in favor of Simmons for me at this point. BTW that was a great read.
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#936 » by phiphan » Fri May 20, 2016 8:02 pm

What in the hell man. Can you stop bringing Towns into this? I don't want to be some other board's punchline...
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#937 » by Ericb5 » Fri May 20, 2016 8:07 pm

sixers hoops wrote:
Unbreakable99 wrote:Excellent article on Simmons.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/Coach15602825/ben-simmons-nba-ceiling


I was just going to post this. Again, I am not impressed with Summons, but I believe we are going to draft him so I am trying to get excited about it.


YES! :o

I love David Thorpe, and I was actually googling him and Ben Simmons yesterday to try to find his take on him, and I am thrilled to see that he and I agree on this.

Great article on why we will pick him first.
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#938 » by Unbreakable99 » Fri May 20, 2016 8:16 pm

phiphan wrote:What in the hell man. Can you stop bringing Towns into this? I don't want to be some other board's punchline...


I'm tired of the "you can't say this about a prospect because he hasn't played in the NBA yet" stuff. It's projections. People projected LeBron would be great when he was in high school. They didn't have to wait for him to play. Obviously there are plenty of misses. But there is nothing wrong with projecting. Last year I said Towns was the best prospect and would be great. I was right. I didn't have to wait. Same thing with Simmons. I'm projecting. I love Towns. I know I'm probably in the minority but I think Simmons will be better and be the more impactful player when it's all said and done.
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#939 » by Mik317 » Fri May 20, 2016 8:26 pm

At the very least Simmons would be the end of one of our best plays being give the ball to Jerami and have him barrel to the rim Yolo.
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#940 » by LakersSquad » Fri May 20, 2016 9:44 pm

tk76 wrote:Griffin is an interesting comp and a fairly unique player in that he is at times a ball handler and at other times an elite finisher.

Griffin works great with CP3, but I'm not sure you would look to pair Simmons with a floor general type PG.


He played with D'angelo Russell

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