2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread IV

[BlackKnight]

The 76ers will hold a pre-draft workout on Wednesday, reports Keith Pompey of Philly.com (link via Twitter). The scheduled participants are Jordan Bell (Oregon), Thomas Bryant (Indiana), Tyler Dorsey (Oregon), Elie Okobo (Élan Béarnais Pau-Orthez), L.J. Peak (Georgetown), and Steve Vasturia (Notre Dame).

Hoping we can snag Okobo with our last pick

[Negrodamus]

Wingspan is 6'10.
Fastest 3/4 sprint at the combine; 5th highest vert (best in standing vert)
Top 15 in the country in steals in the best conference in the country.
His team was noticeably worse on defense when he was off the court.
He defended the other teams best wing player (ie, Tatum while against Duke)
His D stats are better than almost anyone in the top 10..

Right, but there are also reasons not to make too much of that:
--Wasn't a very good shooter this year, was even worse the year before; has no record of being a solid enough shooter to pencil him in as one in the NBA--when the shots are further, the defense closes out harder, and the pace is so much quicker (though his stroke looks good enough)
--Doesn't have a clear offensive game; not good enough at anything that you're pretty sure he'll step right in and be able to drive or shoot stepbacks or anything else
--Because of the ball movement, pn'r, pace-and-space game, perimeter/non-big man D is less important in the NBA and you have to a stellar NBA defender to make a big difference; just being a solid, above average NBA wing defender isn't going to get you minutes on a decent team unless you're also holding your own on offense
--his D stats still aren't awesome (it's more that those of Ball, Monk, Fultz, DSJ, Markannen, etc are really bad for top-10 guys); his steal % is nice, but again it's not incredible (it's maybe somewhere between 30-40 in the NCAA this year?), not enough to suggest he'll come in and tear it up on D right away

I'm not trying to be devil's advocate, just honestly think he's a full gamble you're making based on good size/athleticism plus some peripheral skills. Really wouldn't be surprised at all if he doesn't end up making a rotation, and I'd say his most likely outcome is as a sort of spot starter (though he could obviously be better).

Right, but if everyone is going to applaud Monk and Ball for their high percentages, it needs to be in context. Mitchell has zero big men who could score, a OK scoring wing in Deng Adel, and a mediocre PG in Quentin Snider. He was their best offensive player by a lot and was asked to be the go to scorer. That resulted in many ill advised shots.

Monk was in a much easier scoring situation with top 5 pick De'Aaron Fox at PG and potential first rounder Bam Adebayo at C. Not to mention Briscoe was also, like Fox, a good slashing guard in college which opened the floor for him big time.

UCLA's offense without Ball was infinitely better than Louisville's offense. Add Ball and it goes to another level because he's a great offensive role player.

It's not fair to compare Mitchell to those guys on offense because he didn't have it as easy. In fact, I don't think anyone in the top 10 had it tougher than Mitchell on offense.

Defensively, I've posted this before:

His defense will always be a boon for him, too. Mitchell ranks 34th nationally in steal rate, per KenPom; roughly four percent of opponents’ possessions end with a steal when Mitchell is on the floor. Additionally, opponents have shot just 27.9 percent on spot-ups and 21.1 percent on pick-and-rolls defended by Mitchell, per Synergy.

That's elite defense. I've also watched about 10 games of his in the past 2 weeks and he shuts down his man. What he did to DSJ was demoralizing. You may see it as "solid, above average" but I see elite.

Finally, once again, he shot 54% from three when he wasn't forcing the issue. I'm not saying he's going to be Steph Curry and will be launching fade away threes, but his form is one of the best in the draft. Needs work, but he'll be nailing from deep at the next level.

[freshie2]

I'm fine with Mitchell if they trade back, but not at 3. He does have a smooth, compact jumper that looks solid, and he's a good defender. Would be a great addition, but I don't think he's the third best player in this draft. Anxious to see how this draft plays out...

[Negrodamus]

I'm fine with Mitchell if they trade back, but not at 3. He does have a smooth, compact jumper that looks solid, and he's a good defender. Would be a great addition, but I don't think he's the third best player in this draft. Anxious to see how this draft plays out...

Sure, that's fine with me. I'm just taking him over the role players like Ball and Monk in this draft.

[ET Da Gawd]

Idk why everyone so high on Donovan, he's a hot/cold streaky guy...completely disappeared at the end of the season lol, shoulda came back tbh


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[Negrodamus]

Idk why everyone so high on Donovan, he's a hot/cold streaky guy...completely disappeared at the end of the season lol, shoulda came back tbh


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Dude, you tout Monk, but he was miserably streaky at the end of the year. At least Mitchell had an excuse. Monk was playing with 2, possibly 3, other drafted players. If we didn't have Fox, UK would have been bounced against Wichita St.

[Mik317]

Mitchell was the only one who came to play in Louisville's last game

[Sixersftw]

I'm not a huge Mitchell fan either.

[Negrodamus]

I just re-watched the UK vs Kansas game. Josh Jackson doesn't dominate in ISO opportunities but he makes so many winning plays. He's a great glue player, which are needed to win in the NBA. I'm still not convinced on the shot, obviously.

Bam Adebayo played like hot garbage. Monk was streaky as usual. Fox made some mental mistakes, but is so, so fast.

[shawn_hemp]

yeah I like Adebayo as a college player but I think he is going to be a pretty big letdown in the pros.

he doesnt seem big enough to bang around with heavy centers and lacks the footwork to guard shiftier 4s, let alone try to keep track of stretch-4s.

He has a tenacious motor, but that will only get you so far in the NBA. He reminds me of Quincy Acy a bit, most likely a perennial D-League call up type of player

and its weird because like hes a pretty ripped dude. Just on the surface you think like "ok, this guy is a bruiser"

but he just doesnt really play like that at all. Idk, its hard to determine how Coach Cal prospects can develop with actual coaching

[Sixersftw]

I just re-watched the UK vs Kansas game. Josh Jackson doesn't dominate in ISO opportunities but he makes so many winning plays. He's a great glue player, which are needed to win in the NBA. I'm still not convinced on the shot, obviously.

Bam Adebayo played like hot garbage. Monk was streaky as usual. Fox made some mental mistakes, but is so, so fast.

I agree w/ JJ. He might just end up being Gerald Wallace, he might be a star but that dude does all the little things.

You dislike him but iirc that was a game where Monk did something besides score. The middle of the game where he didn't really score he passed pretty decently, again iirc.

I feel like I flip flop on Fox every damn day.

[Negrodamus]

I just re-watched the UK vs Kansas game. Josh Jackson doesn't dominate in ISO opportunities but he makes so many winning plays. He's a great glue player, which are needed to win in the NBA. I'm still not convinced on the shot, obviously.

Bam Adebayo played like hot garbage. Monk was streaky as usual. Fox made some mental mistakes, but is so, so fast.

I agree w/ JJ. He might just end up being Gerald Wallace, he might be a star but that dude does all the little things.

You dislike him but iirc that was a game where Monk did something besides score. The middle of the game where he didn't really score he passed pretty decently, again iirc.

I feel like I flip flop on Fox every damn day.

Well I've always said that Monk's passing is underrated. He's not hopeless in that regard. Throughout the season, he frequently got the ball into the post, a staple of Calipari's offenses, quite well. He also throws decent alley oops.

I just can't get around how atrocious he is on defense along with taking, and missing, Steph Curry threes for a lot of the game. It's almost like he waits till the game is close, or almost out of reach to start hitting haymaker threes. That's not how I want the Sixers to win games. I'd rather have guys who will come flying in for ORebs and demoralize the other team with a putback like what Jackson did to us.

I'd feel more comfortable if Fox could go right and finish with his right hand. He's going to be a problem in transition next year for whoever is playing against him. I also think the "bounce off NBA defenders" is overstated. He finished over bigass Kennedy Meeks and knocked him to the ground.

[cksdayoff]

i think id rather take jordan bell than donovan mitchell. and im pretty high on mitchell

[Sixersftw]

I just re-watched the UK vs Kansas game. Josh Jackson doesn't dominate in ISO opportunities but he makes so many winning plays. He's a great glue player, which are needed to win in the NBA. I'm still not convinced on the shot, obviously.

Bam Adebayo played like hot garbage. Monk was streaky as usual. Fox made some mental mistakes, but is so, so fast.

I agree w/ JJ. He might just end up being Gerald Wallace, he might be a star but that dude does all the little things.

You dislike him but iirc that was a game where Monk did something besides score. The middle of the game where he didn't really score he passed pretty decently, again iirc.

I feel like I flip flop on Fox every damn day.

Well I've always said that Monk's passing is underrated. He's not hopeless in that regard. Throughout the season, he frequently got the ball into the post, a staple of Calipari's offenses, quite well. He also throws decent alley oops.

I just can't get around how atrocious he is on defense along with taking, and missing, Steph Curry threes for a lot of the game. It's almost like he waits till the game is close, or almost out of reach to start hitting haymaker threes. That's not how I want the Sixers to win games. I'd rather have guys who will come flying in for ORebs and demoralize the other team with a putback like what Jackson did to us.

I'd feel more comfortable if Fox could go right and finish with his right hand. He's going to be a problem in transition next year for whoever is playing against him. I also think the "bounce off NBA defenders" is overstated. He finished over bigass Kennedy Meeks and knocked him to the ground.

Monk's D seems to be largely focus based errors. it's the 2nd and 3rd time his man touched the ball that he got smoked. How correctable that is, I don't know. I'm optimistic but I can understand someone not being. Offensively, it might be focus and it might be trying to figure out when it's appropriate to take less than ideal shots. He was our lone shooter above terrible in the starting lineup and defenses keyed on to him eventually. No one can consistently stay as on fire as he started (cept Kd) and there was an adjustment. I just think his insane 1st half of the season gets underplayed while a streaky 2nd half is taken as the true Monk. It's probably somewhere in the middle, of course.

I can't get fully comfortable with Fox. I really wonder about his ability dealing with physicality and that shot scares the crap out of me.

At 3 I'm still either DSJ or Jackson. Not exactly sure which one.

[Kobblehead]

I'm still locked into either Josh Jackson or Lonzo Ball at #3. If Markelle Fultz is the guy on the board, I'd lean towards taking him, but I'd bring all of the ancillary prospects onto the table and I'd be on the phone seeing if someone was desperate to move up.

But if Ball or Jackson is on the board, things get real easy for me.

[SelfishPlayer]

Dennis Smith's ball handling is a tad bit suspect. People overlook it for whatever reason. He's an exceptional ball handler for a penetrating 2 guard, but for ball dominating PG I don't see the break down handle and ball security. He's a little shaky there, could be severely turnover prone in the NBA.

[LloydFree]

I'm still locked into either Josh Jackson or Lonzo Ball at #3. If Markelle Fultz is the guy on the board, I'd lean towards taking him, but I'd bring all of the ancillary prospects onto the table and I'd be on the phone seeing if someone was desperate to move up.

But if Ball or Jackson is on the board, things get real easy for me.

I'd definitely look to trade back if both Ball and Jackson are off the board. I still think it's a good chance Fultz is on the board at#3. I've seen too many NBA types say Josh Jackson is their favorite player in the draft. If there was a weak GM sitting in the #1 spot, I'd feel more secure that Fultz would go #1. Can't picture Ainge doing it.

[Unbreakable99]

I'm still locked into either Josh Jackson or Lonzo Ball at #3. If Markelle Fultz is the guy on the board, I'd lean towards taking him, but I'd bring all of the ancillary prospects onto the table and I'd be on the phone seeing if someone was desperate to move up.

But if Ball or Jackson is on the board, things get real easy for me.

I'd definitely look to trade back if both Ball and Jackson are off the board. I still think it's a good chance Fultz is on the board at#3. I've seen too many NBA types say Josh Jackson is their favorite player in the draft. If there was a weak GM sitting in the #1 spot, I'd feel more secure that Fultz would go #1. Can't picture Ainge doing it.

Ainge is great at fleecing incompetent GMs but his draft record is suspect and he is not that good at drafting. I think based on Ainge's draft record he has a better chance of getting the number 1 pick wrong thus he may draft Fultz.

[LongLiveHinkie]

I'm gonna make a broad statement without context, but it's how I feel so I'll say it anyway.

If the Sixers don't get a player at 3 who maxes out at 18ppg or above in the NBA then the pick was a failure.

We need scoring. Scorers win titles. You're seeing it in the Finals. I know 18ppg is an arbitrary mark, but I had to set a mark somewhere. I honestly was tempted to move it up to 20ppg, but that's asking too much. In the top 3, the #1 thing I want is scoring. The Sixers lack scorers overall and I think that's where the 3rd pick has to go.

If we are looking to take the next step into being a playoff team next season then in the playoffs we can't rely on ball movement and passing to get points. In the playoffs, there's a lot more iso, a lot more leaning on your stars. It's why I'm not really an advocate of Ball or Isaac. I think they will be well-rouned excellent players, but not top 3 worthy.

People compare Ball to Kidd, but Kidd was an 18-20ppg guy for most of his prime. Oh, and he would get you 10 dimes and almost 5+ boards as well. I think Ball reaching that level is a major stretch, sans maybe the assists numbers.

My board is evolving right now.

1. Fultz
2. Jackson
3. DSJ
4. Tatum

[Kobblehead]

Jason Kidd only scored more than 16 ppg 4 times in his 19 year career.