The Sixerfan1976 Off-Season Thread (Update: Page 61)

[tk76]

Isn't it kind backwards to fire him for the things he did last year when he seems to have made all of the right moves thus far in the off season? The time to fire him has past. It makes sense to keep him on a short leash and to fire him if things don't improve in the short term. just let him be a lame duck for now.

Also, I have always wondered how much influence Dileo has as director of player personnel. Is he in anyway culpable for the missteps of the sixers over the past few years?

DiLeo's main role is the draft. And IMO that has been one of the bright spots.

As for the time for firing... anytime the person is ill equipped to manage the team going forward. As I said, his past failed results handcuff his ability to make the right moves going forward,

[freshie2]

I am amazed at the outrage that some have over an off season where they move Sammy for quality pieces, replace the coach that everyone hated with one that 99% of the public respects, and drafted a big guard who won nearly every award available to him last year.

The Sixers have retained the same young players who were part of the team that showed so much promise prior to last season. They have better depth across the front line than they have had in years. They have nice length/talent in the backcourt with a lot of room for growth. Lastly, they have about $10 million in expiring deals that may be attractive in a trade deadline deal. Given the position they've been in for years, they are actually in a position where there is some promise for the near/long term future. There still are some tweaks to make, but they have had a very good offseason.

Flip side of all this.

Dalembert was most likely traded because he is a jerk and the Sixers brass didn't want to deal with him anymore. It probably made us worse on the basketball court, and certainly negatively impacted the team's financial situation. It's funny that you say we have great depth in the front court, because honestly I think this is the worst frontcourt we've had in years. It's Brand and a couple stiffs and tweeners.

Stefanski hired Jordan. Collins hasn't won a playoff series since 1989.

Turner was a no brainer pick that fell into Stefanski's lap because (1) he did a horrible job assembling the team this past year and (2) he got lucky.

I can see your points, but...

Dalembert's contract coming off the books would have been huge, but what would they have done with it?? He leaves, they still don't have a center and are left to reach/overpay for a big. I see Hawes as a pretty low risk/high reward option. He's still very young for a big man, and very skilled. If his maturity is the issue, maybe the change of venue serves as a wake up call. Based on prior years, he will give you very similar output to Sammy, minus some of the blocks, and minus some of the clueless offensive possessions we've seen from Sammy. I would have been fine keeping Sammy for defense/rebounding, but Hawes could potentially be a higher end center (than Sam) for this franchise for the next 5-10 years. Nocioni is a tough player who I don't believe has fallen off the way some have commented and should thrive from the competition in this group. So was the Sammy deal questionable...sure, but I think the chance they took in Hawes/Nocioni is much less than keeping Sammy and praying someone better than Hawes fell in their lap.

I'm not a fan of Stefanski...if they fire him in November, so be it. My comments were not to reflect that he's done a good job, but rather that the franchise/roster is not in as bad a shape as some people have commented. I know I stand alone in this mindset, but outside of the 01 season, the Iverson years were the darkest years for the franchise since I've been watching the Sixers, so I think we have seen much worse rosters than what is out there now.

Agree on Turner as well. If they could have flipped Turner for Henry and either Favors, Monroe or Cousins, I would have been fine with that as well, but yes, taking Turner was a no brainer, and I think the franchise will be fine with that move. Turner is not on this team due to the genius of Stefanski...we are in agreement there.

My summary...regardless of how long he's been out of coaching, Collins is a much better coach for this team than anyone in recent memory. Sammy for Nocioni/Hawes is OK in my book...landing a 22 year old 7'er who probably has to 10 ball skills among the centers in the league is OK in my book. Low risk/potentially very high reward. Stefanski can be fired, and I wouldn't question the move.

[HartfordWhalers]

Detroit I think everyone should agree is in worse shape. Toronto is in worse shape also. Minnesota is so bad they cannot be in worse shape than us. Besides that, maybe Cleveland?

Isn't it kind backwards to fire him for the things he did last year when he seems to have made all of the right moves thus far in the off season? The time to fire him has past. It makes sense to keep him on a short leash and to fire him if things don't improve in the short term. just let him be a lame duck for now.

Also, I have always wondered how much influence Dileo has as director of player personnel. Is he in anyway culpable for the missteps of the sixers over the past few years?

I have no idea how much draft credit Dileo should really get, but I think our drafting has been good. And Dileo looked better coaching that Cheeks for what that is worth. And better than Eddie, who I'm pretty sure wasn't his hire. Perhaps unfairly, I give Dileo a pass on the big misses, as they don't seem like they were his call.
If he deserved to be fired, I think it is more backward to not fire him now than to just say, we missed the logical window, we'll get him next time.

Flip side of all this.

Dalembert was most likely traded because he is a jerk and the Sixers brass didn't want to deal with him anymore. It probably made us worse on the basketball court, and certainly negatively impacted the team's financial situation. It's funny that you say we have great depth in the front court, because honestly I think this is the worst frontcourt we've had in years. It's Brand and a couple stiffs and tweeners.

Stefanski hired Jordan. Collins hasn't won a playoff series since 1989.

Turner was a no brainer pick that fell into Stefanski's lap because (1) he did a horrible job assembling the team this past year and (2) he got lucky.

Yea, when I look at Stefanski I don't hold Brand against him, but I certainly don't think you can credit him with drafting second (Turner), or firing Eddie Jordan. And the Sammy trade/Battie signing aren't job saving. So I don't have him at positive momentum from any of that.

Has Collins really not won a playoff series since 1989? I didn't realize it was this bad, but I think that stat really hammers home that we got a good, safe coach, and not a great coach. I will be curious how Thibs works out in Chicago, but I would add the coach to a general neutral assessment on the GM'ing this offseason.

For the team, No Eddie Jordan and Evan Turner is an awesome move up, but neither are a reflection on Stefanski imo.

[HartfordWhalers]

If Stefanski gets credit for firing Eddie Jordan, Isiah Thomas should have gotten GM of the year consideration for getting himself fired.

[dbodner]

To be fair, he's only coached 5 seasons since 1989

[bballin76]

Just to reply to people's replies to my rant...

I want him gone for not solving the small forward logjam...and jettisoning Kapono for a bag of donuts is not what I call a solution.

The team has too many wing players and bad front court depth. This is a prime offseason to get something done since so many teams are now left in the dark with the Heat signings.

You have to..HAVE TO..make some deals in this climate to strengthen the team...either by acquiring talent or by helping the financial situation so that you can acquire talent later.

You can't just go into this season with as many question marks as we have at small forward and in the front court. They're relying on Hawes to play center with who as his backup? Speights? Smith? Friggin Battie? That is not getting the job done! Neither is relying on an aging Elton Brand for rebounding and interior defense to make up for the weakness of the other big.

Also, why get rid of Kapono? His contract expires at the end of the season...let it fall off. To me its just the easy way out to dump him instead of addressing the core issue with the small forward position and with the team. Do you keep Thad or do you keep Igoudala? Ed is dodging that and putting it off once again if he doesn't work out a trade or deal this summer.

That, to me, is why he should be fired. We need a GM with balls that will pull the trigger to do what's right for the franchise and for the city.

His plan is to keep Iguodala and Thad until when? The trade deadline? Mr. Jodie Meeks trade deadline Stefanski is going to deal them then? No way.

Thad has a 7.5 million cap hold and we still don't fully know what we have with him or what we can expect from him.

Iguodala is what he is. I'm not saying trade him for the sake of trading him, but if you can dump Brand's contract on someone by including Iguodala....you do it and play the young guys.

Yes, it'll be another bad season, but we will finally know what we have on this roster and will have the cap flexibility to do something about it. That is how you build a team. Not these little impact deals for bench filler.

[bebopdeluxe]

Dalembert was most likely traded because he is a jerk and the Sixers brass didn't want to deal with him anymore. It probably made us worse on the basketball court, and certainly negatively impacted the team's financial situation. It's funny that you say we have great depth in the front court, because honestly I think this is the worst frontcourt we've had in years. It's Brand and a couple stiffs and tweeners.

I wouldn't be surprised if one of the key conditions of Collins taking the job was to get Sammy as far away from this roster as quickly as possible.

For the 8-10 games a season where Sammy's defense was a key factor in the team's success, there were probably 3-4 times the games where Sammy's "Sammy-ness" cost the team games. He was the last to arrive and the first to leave. He NEVER worked on his game in the off-season. He has wanted out of this team for at least the past two seasons - yeah, a real "building block" there.

Memo to Speights, Thad, Lou and ANYBODY else who missed it: there is a new sheriff in town - either tighten the f up or you are GONE.

A breath of fresh air, if you ask me.

And based on how there are teams who still have lots of cap room right now but nobody to spend it on right now, what guarantee do we have that Sammy's deal rolling off was going to get us 'Melo or sonething like that? Could we have cost ourselves a chance to add a nice piece next summer? Maybe - but obviously Collins wanted Sammy gone...and I'm fine with that. We get a one-year flyer on Hawes - who could actually benefit from the change of scenery and some quality coaching. I'm not in love with Nocioni's 2011-12 contract, but that was the cost of getting Sammy "The Second Coming of Alonzo Mourning" Dalembert off the team, and I'm fine with that as well.

[sec-106]

A breath of fresh air, if you ask me.

Couldn't agree more.

[tk76]

Yes, Collins is a breath of fresh air... but the rest of the FO still reeks of Chili's.

[sec-106]

Anyone else get the feeling ES will be nudged out, with DC bumped up to assume the LB role, and DiLeo taking the BK one?

[bebopdeluxe]

Anyone else get the feeling ES will be nudged out, with DC bumped up to assume the LB role, and DiLeo taking the BK one?

I'd be down with that.

[tk76]

No, I think Mr. Snider is too interested in the Flyers to change GM's anytime soon. If he cared he would have done something at the end of the season. Things can't get worse than last year- so I think we will be blessed by Stefanski's stewardship for another 2-3 years.

My guess is he'll be canned around when Brand expires.

[sec-106]

...this team has done a lot.

1. Replaced Jordan with Collins
2. Stumbled into Turner
3. Sent Dalembert away for Hawes/Nocioni
4. Brought in Battie

That's all a nice start of a rebuild. Next step is to let the coach come into camp and really see what he has and what he needs.

Totally agree.

[HartfordWhalers]

...this team has done a lot.

1. Replaced Jordan with Collins
2. Stumbled into Turner
3. Sent Dalembert away for Hawes/Nocioni
4. Brought in Battie

That's all a nice start of a rebuild. Next step is to let the coach come into camp and really see what he has and what he needs.

Totally agree.

For the franchise it is looking up, but for the gm scorecard:
1 is replacing his own mistake (EJ), 2 was a combination of luck and his own mistake (EJ), 3 is an open question (to me at least), and 4 is most likely irrelevant.

[Sixerscan]

Dalembert was most likely traded because he is a jerk and the Sixers brass didn't want to deal with him anymore. It probably made us worse on the basketball court, and certainly negatively impacted the team's financial situation. It's funny that you say we have great depth in the front court, because honestly I think this is the worst frontcourt we've had in years. It's Brand and a couple stiffs and tweeners.

I wouldn't be surprised if one of the key conditions of Collins taking the job was to get Sammy as far away from this roster as quickly as possible.

For the 8-10 games a season where Sammy's defense was a key factor in the team's success, there were probably 3-4 times the games where Sammy's "Sammy-ness" cost the team games. He was the last to arrive and the first to leave. He NEVER worked on his game in the off-season. He has wanted out of this team for at least the past two seasons - yeah, a real "building block" there.

Memo to Speights, Thad, Lou and ANYBODY else who missed it: there is a new sheriff in town - either tighten the f up or you are GONE.

A breath of fresh air, if you ask me.

And based on how there are teams who still have lots of cap room right now but nobody to spend it on right now, what guarantee do we have that Sammy's deal rolling off was going to get us 'Melo or sonething like that? Could we have cost ourselves a chance to add a nice piece next summer? Maybe - but obviously Collins wanted Sammy gone...and I'm fine with that. We get a one-year flyer on Hawes - who could actually benefit from the change of scenery and some quality coaching. I'm not in love with Nocioni's 2011-12 contract, but that was the cost of getting Sammy "The Second Coming of Alonzo Mourning" Dalembert off the team, and I'm fine with that as well.

This is Doug Collins were talking about. Not Phil Jackson or Pat Riley. They guy won 3 playoff series 21 years ago... He shouldn't get to make roster demands. Either way, I don't get why people assume Collins is such a hard ass. Last time he was a coach he was MJ's personal lap dog.

Here's the point. The Sixers dealt with Dalembert for 8 years. They've paid him over $55 million in salary. Now he was finally in expiring contract. They couldn't have just waited one more year and dumped him? Or better yet, held onto him until the trade deadline, and traded him for something good? Heck, just release him if you want him gone so bad. Hawes and Nocioni suck. I wouldn't expect them to sign Melo next summer, just use that extra $7 million to sign someone better than Nocioni.

Instead, they aren't going to have cap room. They'll probably just end up overpaying their existing role players (Hawes, Green, Young) because they don't have the option to sign new players due to the lack of cap room.

[HartfordWhalers]

I'm more hopeful than above on Hawes, but the general point noted about that trade should definitely be in mind of everyone who keeps explaining how it was a clear win and the general "there is no downside cause we don't have Sammy" attitude of this board. Sacramento fans felt they clearly won that trade, which is never a good sign about what you are getting. But I know, I know, we know better.

[Sixerscan]

Also, you have to look at it from Dalembert's perspective. This is his contract year. He's gonna be 29, this is potentially his last big pay day. If you don't think he's gonna bust his ass this year trying to get a new contract, you are crazy. He has nothing to gain by being a malcontent. And if he does so anyway, then you sit his butt on the bench. If he keeps complaining, you send him home and get the cap relief in the spring.

I'm not even sure what the best case scenario of this trade is. That Hawes becomes a starting quality center so we can give him a 5 year/$50 million contract? Didn't we just go through that with Dalembert and decided that overpaying people because of height is stupid? Moreover, does anyone think the way Hawes plays (slow, soft, relies on a jump shot) is something we want in a center?

Yea, i guess this is kind of random, but I wasn't able to post on the board really when the trade was made, so I'm getting me licks in now

[tk76]

I actually liked the notion of solid defense with J/I/T with Sam to back them up.

Its sort of a waste of Jrue and Iguodala's ability to apply pressure when you PF/C's can' defend.

[bebopdeluxe]

Relative to the bozos who have been running/coaching this team for the past few years, given Collins' track record he can make WHATEVER roster demands he wants, IMO. Givne his job the past few years (which he did so well that he's in the HOF), he probably knows the players in this league as well as many pro personnel guys or GM's out there, and I abso-freaking-lutely respect his basketball knowledge more that the yabo that is currently the Sixers GM. How about you?

To me, this trade isn't about cap room in the summer of 2011 or having a shotblocker behind J/T/I (although I would be more than happy to debate you on both of those points)...it was about getting Sammy as far away from this roster as possible - both for the direct benefits (i.e. having a guy like Hawes or Brand at the 5 who has a freaking clue when it comes to running offensive sets) as well as the indirect benefits (in terms of getting Speights, Lou, Thad and others to tighten the f up). If Hawes turns out to be something, that's just bonus points for me.

[tk76]

We will never know, but IMO Sam was traded to get under the tax. They basically gave up on any cap space next summer in exchange for getting under the tax this year.

I'm not condemning it- because tax motivated trades like this happen all of the time- and it was a better option than giving away one of the young players. But I would not praise the move or read too much into it. I would think that given the choice Collins would take having a quality post defender/rebounder over having none. But Sam was not part of the teams long term plans anyway- so it is not a big deal. Just more an example of how this team will be hamstrung and against the cap until Brand's contract expires.