Sixers Offseason Thread Part 2

[Sixersftw]

All this talk about fit, let me ask you all, pure fantasy scenario, who would be the ultimate archetype of a player to be third banana to Embiid and Maxey? Any current player is fair game to say, let's hear it.

Uninjured prime Klay or Durant.

[AI_Efficiency]

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I know DeRozan will never escape the rep of being a choker from 10 years ago, but he’s been on insanely dysfunctional teams since the Raptors and has been in the running for most clutch player for multiple years.

We need someone to show up in the fourth since we have the guys who show up 1-3 quarters.

I’m just more concerned about playoff spacing. I feel like it’s tough if you have a player that can’t shoot. Especially if they aren’t a major roll / cut threat. Teams would play us how they already play harden / Maxey and embiid’s pick and roll where you just sell out to stop it and bet that other guy’s won’t punish you. It will be even harder when they can rotate off DeRozan and not worry about him from the perimeter.

That’s what the 2 and 4 will be for. Also Maxey is one of the best knock down perimeter shooters in the league.

On top of all that, we just watched Doncic and Kyrie shoot themselves out of the Finals. I also think the “DeRozan isn’t a shooter” narrative is somewhat old. I think he’s a willing and able C&S three point shooter, but he definitely has his spots on the court he’d rather shoot from.

I had the opposite take from the finals. Celtics won because they had good shooters at every position, paired with the ability for guys to collapse the defense by getting into the paint and find those shooters. Celtics took over 50 more threes than Dallas during the course of the series. DeRozan did get up to almost 3 attempts a game from three this past season, but for context, that’s one lower than even Tobias.

[Jailblazers7]

Best 3rd banana would be prime Klay

[Mik317]

I think Tobias, PJ, and most of our wings have blinded us a bit.

Its not really JUST about being a threat to shoot off the catch. Tobias and PJ are both solid-good % shooters when given time (even if neither ever hit a big shot for us it felt like lol) its the fact that they needed time and when lazily closed out on, they had no other moves beyond taking a worse shot or resetting the play. Jimmy may not be an always willing shooter but you close out poorly on him and that gives him enough space to drive or even just step in for a middy. Same for DeRozan. Both being capable ballhandlers and underrated passers means that giving them space isn't a great idea as despite their iffy triggers, defenses still have to worry JUST enough to think about it. Teams didn't give a **** what most of our wings did because they'd either take forever to shoot or slowly clump it up into a **** post up or again just reset the play for a Biid or Maxey bailout.

yes, its be great to have Prime KD out there who can not only put the fear of god into defenders as a shooter but also someone you'd have to close out on with your best defenders but thats not realistic. Again the idea is that whoever it is we get has the same boost Oubre did playing off of Biid and Maxey. The ideal is that it gives the defense another guy they have to think about and that causes single coverage for Biid to work in and Maxey to wreck havoc on or off ball too. last playoffs, the Knicks either blitzed Maxey or Biid and dared Lowry, Tobias, and a cold Oubre to beat them and due to being washed, checked out, or too much swag..they couldn't. Meanwhile as we tried to blitz Brunson, Hart hit all of his open shots or OG stepped into easy as **** looks. Thats Basketball at its simplest. make it difficult for defenses to dictate what you do and keep them on their back foot...too often our offense is just throw the ball at Biid and hope for the best, which works in the regular season but in the playoffs, you just throw doubles and even if he doesn't go brain dead, that tires him out and takes far to long for any play to develop. Making that strat impossible is what getting a better third and hopefully Maxey's continued improvement does. Biid also has to become a more willing shooter himself and work on more off ball actions in general too.

It cannot be the Biid does everything system again basically and better roster makes that possible even if most sets still probably run through him.

[the_process]

Spurs Kawhi or Thunder Durant. That's the player you want.

That's the player everyone wants.

[the_process]

If it was cheap, would you take a shot on trading for Michael Porter Jr. and hope he stays relatively healthy and has a little leap left in him with some more usage? Just throwing stuff at the wall.

[PhillyFan11]

Tyrese Halliburton would be a pretty ideal fit between Maxey and Embiid. And I choose to convince myself that the Ben for Halliburton deal was never actually on the table to sleep at night

[Negrodamus]

I’m just more concerned about playoff spacing. I feel like it’s tough if you have a player that can’t shoot. Especially if they aren’t a major roll / cut threat. Teams would play us how they already play harden / Maxey and embiid’s pick and roll where you just sell out to stop it and bet that other guy’s won’t punish you. It will be even harder when they can rotate off DeRozan and not worry about him from the perimeter.

That’s what the 2 and 4 will be for. Also Maxey is one of the best knock down perimeter shooters in the league.

On top of all that, we just watched Doncic and Kyrie shoot themselves out of the Finals. I also think the “DeRozan isn’t a shooter” narrative is somewhat old. I think he’s a willing and able C&S three point shooter, but he definitely has his spots on the court he’d rather shoot from.

I had the opposite take from the finals. Celtics won because they had good shooters at every position, paired with the ability for guys to collapse the defense by getting into the paint and find those shooters. Celtics took over 50 more threes than Dallas during the course of the series. DeRozan did get up to almost 3 attempts a game from three this past season, but for context, that’s one lower than even Tobias.

I’m not modeling anything from the Celtics because they constructed a team full of all star level talent. If the Mavs had White and Holiday along with two shooters at C, then they would have probably won.

More so than finding more three point shooters who are prone to going cold in the playoffs, it’d be nice to have someone who is capable of collapsing the defense and passing out to open shooters. DeRozan has been doing that his whole career and it’s something we’ve been missing (aside from Harden, who also shot himself out of the playoffs with us).

[Negrodamus]

One last thing about DeRozan:

Until last year, LaVine and DeMar were both ~25ppg scorers during their time on the Bulls together.
LaVine goes down and Coby White steps in and becomes a 20+ppg during LaVine's time out and comes in second as MIP.

He has shown he's capable of coexisting with another all-star guard while being effective as a fairly heavily on ball player. I think his ability to seamlessly fit into a system and letting the other stars continue to eat has been an underrated part of his game.

[FireMorey]

The Sixers biggest need is another player who can create his own shot(and score with it of course). The Sixers playoff failures have always come down to the final quarters of playoff games. So many of those games were close, but their offense always bogs down in those spots. Because Embiid is either hurt, tired, double/triple teamed, or a combination of the three. And Maxey either reverts to passive mode or teams blitz him and negate his driving ability. Maxey, as good as he is, really only has two options in his arsenal he's proficient at. Now, he's really proficient at them, it's why he's so good, but he's either drive to the rim/do a floater or the step back 3. He doesn't have the ability to maneuver craftily in the mid range with a player draped on him to free himself and get off a shot. Maxey struggles when he doesn't have the ability to use his quickness as a threat. His quickness is why his step back is so dangerous because teams have to always be ready for his ability to drive so it gives him space.

But when Embiid and Maxey are suppressed, the Sixers have no one else to score. How many playoff games have we seen where the "0 FGM in the last 4 minutes" flashed up on the screen in a game 5,6,7 of a Sixers playoff game? The Sixers have needed a 3rd guy who can create their own shot and score in the worst way. More than a pure shooter, more than a pure athlete. That's what Butler and PG would bring, even if that skill may not last longer than a couple more years at their ages.

[PhillyFan11]

That’s what the 2 and 4 will be for. Also Maxey is one of the best knock down perimeter shooters in the league.

On top of all that, we just watched Doncic and Kyrie shoot themselves out of the Finals. I also think the “DeRozan isn’t a shooter” narrative is somewhat old. I think he’s a willing and able C&S three point shooter, but he definitely has his spots on the court he’d rather shoot from.

I had the opposite take from the finals. Celtics won because they had good shooters at every position, paired with the ability for guys to collapse the defense by getting into the paint and find those shooters. Celtics took over 50 more threes than Dallas during the course of the series. DeRozan did get up to almost 3 attempts a game from three this past season, but for context, that’s one lower than even Tobias.

I’m not modeling anything from the Celtics because they constructed a team full of all star level talent. If the Mavs had White and Holiday along with two shooters at C, then they would have probably won.

More so than finding more three point shooters who are prone to going cold in the playoffs, it’d be nice to have someone who is capable of collapsing the defense and passing out to open shooters. DeRozan has been doing that his whole career and it’s something we’ve been missing (aside from Harden, who also shot himself out of the playoffs with us).

The offense runs through Embiid whether you/we like it or not. He already collapses the D into the paint. Having another player that lives primarily inside the 3 point line is just going to clog things up when defenses tighten up in the playoffs.
I get what you are saying for most offenses in the NBA, but you have to acknowledge we are not built like most/any offenses where the C is the primary scorer (aside from Denver).

[Arsenal]

I'm good with DeRozan as long as the price is right. Meaning something around $30m/yr for 2 years.

If we get him we need absolute stud defenders to fill out the lineup. Maybe Naji Marshall can be one. Bring back Oubre and hopefully Batum for cheap, then get another good 3&D guy to play PF.

Or even better would be to somehow get both DeRozan and OG. If possible that would eat our entire cap but would be worth it. Sign Oubre for RE, and fill the bench with vet mins and our 1st rounder.

[youngcrev]

I'm good with DeRozan as long as the price is right. Meaning something around $30m/yr for 2 years.

If we get him we need absolute stud defenders to fill out the lineup. Maybe Naji Marshall can be one. Bring back Oubre and hopefully Batum for cheap, then get another good 3&D guy to play PF.

Or even better would be to somehow get both DeRozan and OG. If possible that would eat our entire cap but would be worth it. Sign Oubre for RE, and fill the bench with vet mins and our 1st rounder.

I think you'd need guys that are stud defenders and shooters... Which is really hard to find/expensive.

I guess that's where the KCP stuff makes sense.

DeRozan/KCP/Batum/Oubre doesn't feel like a terrible outcome. Not my preferred one, but not a jump off the bridge one since you'd still have your picks.

[Negrodamus]

I had the opposite take from the finals. Celtics won because they had good shooters at every position, paired with the ability for guys to collapse the defense by getting into the paint and find those shooters. Celtics took over 50 more threes than Dallas during the course of the series. DeRozan did get up to almost 3 attempts a game from three this past season, but for context, that’s one lower than even Tobias.

I’m not modeling anything from the Celtics because they constructed a team full of all star level talent. If the Mavs had White and Holiday along with two shooters at C, then they would have probably won.

More so than finding more three point shooters who are prone to going cold in the playoffs, it’d be nice to have someone who is capable of collapsing the defense and passing out to open shooters. DeRozan has been doing that his whole career and it’s something we’ve been missing (aside from Harden, who also shot himself out of the playoffs with us).

The offense runs through Embiid whether you/we like it or not. He already collapses the D into the paint. Having another player that lives primarily inside the 3 point line is just going to clog things up when defenses tighten up in the playoffs.
I get what you are saying for most offenses in the NBA, but you have to acknowledge we are not built like most/any offenses where the C is the primary scorer (aside from Denver).

Actually, our offense has been mostly through DHO or PnR. Luckily, DeRozan is in the 92nd percentile (Luka is 93rd, Shai 96th of guys with volume) as the PnR ball handler. I think we can figure out the offense with him. I also don't think anything will be clogged up with two of the best midrange scorers in the game.

[youngcrev]

One last thing about DeRozan:

Until last year, LaVine and DeMar were both ~25ppg scorers during their time on the Bulls together.
LaVine goes down and Coby White steps in and becomes a 20+ppg during LaVine's time out and comes in second as MIP.

He has shown he's capable of coexisting with another all-star guard while being effective as a fairly heavily on ball player. I think his ability to seamlessly fit into a system and letting the other stars continue to eat has been an underrated part of his game.

True. And Vucevic's shot profile isn't crazy far off of Embiid's. Still don't love it.

[Jailblazers7]

I don’t think teams want to scramble a bad defender at Demar because they sold out doubling Embiid. I’d feel pretty damn good swinging him the ball on the opposite wing with the defense out of position even if his spacing isn’t ideal.

I’d also like to see us find a PF who can be a secondary PnR roll man. Asking Embiid to be the lone screener is too physically taxing so we need someone to share the burden.

[Jailblazers7]

Also for reference last year:

Demar - 14.8 drives per game; 55.5% shooting on drives; generates points on 70% of drives

Jimmy - 14.3 drives per game; 44.4% shooting on drives; generates points on 49.7% of drives

[Black Mage]

Ramon Shelbourne said Butler is not the Sixers top target because of the money and trade compensation they’d have to give up. So each insider is saying a different top name is not one of their top targets. Someone’s gotta be wrong, all the smoke right now is hard to cut through.

Morey gotta be careful to avoid more tampering charges. That's how I'm reading a lot of these new reports.

[PhillyFan11]

I’m not modeling anything from the Celtics because they constructed a team full of all star level talent. If the Mavs had White and Holiday along with two shooters at C, then they would have probably won.

More so than finding more three point shooters who are prone to going cold in the playoffs, it’d be nice to have someone who is capable of collapsing the defense and passing out to open shooters. DeRozan has been doing that his whole career and it’s something we’ve been missing (aside from Harden, who also shot himself out of the playoffs with us).

The offense runs through Embiid whether you/we like it or not. He already collapses the D into the paint. Having another player that lives primarily inside the 3 point line is just going to clog things up when defenses tighten up in the playoffs.
I get what you are saying for most offenses in the NBA, but you have to acknowledge we are not built like most/any offenses where the C is the primary scorer (aside from Denver).

Actually, our offense has been mostly through DHO or PnR. Luckily, DeRozan is in the 92nd percentile (Luka is 93rd, Shai 96th of guys with volume) as the PnR ball handler. I think we can figure out the offense with him. I also don't think anything will be clogged up with two of the best midrange scorers in the game.

Ok so now we’ve maxed Maxey to be a spot up shooter and poor defender?

[Black Mage]

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Sign DeRozan and trade 16 for Grant.

Grant to me is a guy who looks great on a losing team where he's free to chuck. Force him to have to play a role and diminish his attempts per game and he's nothing special. I mean, he's averaging under 5 boards a game past few years and only had 3.5 a game last year. Tobias practically doubled him up in that category.