Looking back, was Hinkie the right choice to carry out the rebuild?

[ET Da Gawd]

This isn't the NFL this is basketball. Theres only so much you can blame a players performance on his teammates.

I totally understand how bad his teammates are. And I'm evaluating Okafor separately from his teammates. Hes one of the primary reasons the 76ers took a big step back this year. He's terrible and pulling Noel who is an above average NBA player away from his position made the 76ers even more terrible.

Simple solution. Trade Okafor while other GMs may still believe he has "potential". If he's still a crap player after next year, you won't be able to get anything for him ala Mike beasley, Thomas Robinson, etc.

McConell, Covington, and Noel are a decent core. Add a healthy Embiid and Saric and you've got some light at the end of the tunnel.

But the chances of Okafor becoming a good player are slim. Hes already developed the skills that typically take a few years. They will get better i agree. But he's not going to make it in this league as center on a good team and moving him to pover forward defensively seems far fetched. What's your potential upside here, a non-rebounding Boogie Cousins?? Enjoy those lotto balls.

It's not about going small. It's about finding a big man that can do big man things. Like Noel and Embiid are. Okafor isn't gonna be that guy

Okafors the reason we took a step back? Nothing to do with the lack of progression from Ish (had him last yr), Nik, Roco, Hollis, Grant? We took a step back because this years roster was worse than last years. I understand your sentiments though, your probably one of those people who think that in the past 3 or so years bball has really changed and the league should head towards positionless bball with a whole bunch of 6'8 dudes with low bball skills run around all day. Post play will never go out of style, our rosters ass and thats why we struggle has 0 to do with nerlens or jah. Its funny though, everyone in the nba wants to shoot 3s, but more than half of these new age 3pt chuckers (guards and bigmen alike) have 0 midrange game.

[rallydurham]

Tk76 some of your points are very valid.

And yes there are some rebounding exceptions from guys like Camby or garnett who were absolute sticks when they entered the league.

Okafor is already a grown man. Although you could argue he was a bit of a fatty at Duke but he's long past that now. I'm not saying he can't develop his body further but he's not completely undeveloped like garnett when he entered the league.

I just think when you're giving up 110ppg and your center is a sieve and he's not nearly athletic enough to chase stretch 4s or move his feet against guards in the pick and roll it's time to acknowledge he's a big problem on that side of the floor.


And yes there is a lot to be said for positional versatility because of the pick and roll. If you can switch on screens you are significantly less exposed than having to duck under, trap, or fight through them.

One of the reasons kevin love has had trouble scoring in Cleveland is because he can't run the pick and roll with lebron because defenders just switch, rendering it ineffective. Cleveland isn't gonna stop utilizing lebron, so love is the odd man out. Barnes can't be involved in GSW so they go park him in the corner.

If you are a liability in the pnr on defense they will seek you out over and over again. Right now, it's just going to be incredibly difficult to put a winner around okafor. Maybe the rules will shift in a few years and they'll move the 3 pts line back and he can play but that's a lot to hope for

[tk76]

I'd say Cousins and Valanciunas were similar physically mature when they entered the league. I agree that rebounding is a concern given his rookie performance as that is not something that should suffer on a bad team... but he was a solid rebounder at Duke. I think he has the size and length to be a good rebouonder, but is hurt by not being able to get to balls in space. I do think he will adapt to no longer being the biggest buy out there, and he will be a whole lot stronger at 25 than he was at 19. If anything, I was disapointed to see the combo of Jah and Noel not beig able to rebound effectively together.

In terms of overall defense, I see Okafor as someone who will be able to work well in a solid team scheme, but he is not the type of guy who makes up for an overall poor team defense like the Sixers have.

[BobThornton]

Don't know if anyone else has talked about Hinkie on the Lowe Podcast. No breaking news, but some interesting things. Talked about when he interviewed for the job, asked Josh what Josh's goals were for the team. Josh wanted a parade. He wants to win championships. So in another Hinkie-ism, Hinkie said "Your crops have been eaten." The bad moves from past years (Bynum, etc) stripped the team of assets. Going to take awhile to get to a championship caliber team. We started from a low spot. Talked about how the Sixers have invested heavily in scouting and are counting on that to give them an edge. Said we just don't know about Embiid. Compared to when they drafted him, they are much more certain that he CAN be a great player based on the things they have seen him do against NBA players (other Sixers) in scrimmages. But it is less certain that he can be completely healthy after he's sat out for 2 years. As far as free agency, said there is a good chance this offseason that the team could spend 10 to 15 times the amount on free agents than the previous 3 years combined. Saric: we don't know for sure that he is coming over, but all signs are pointing in the right direction. Really stressed the lottery picks. 53% chance at Top 2 pick, 50% chance of two picks in the Top 4 or 5. Said we could have 7 lottery picks on the roster next season.

[spikeslovechild]

I'd say Cousins and Valanciunas were similar physically mature when they entered the league. I agree that rebounding is a concern given his rookie performance as that is not something that should suffer on a bad team... but he was a solid rebounder at Duke. I think he has the size and length to be a good rebouonder, but is hurt by not being able to get to balls in space. I do think he will adapt to no longer being the biggest buy out there, and he will be a whole lot stronger at 25 than he was at 19. If anything, I was disapointed to see the combo of Jah and Noel not beig able to rebound effectively together.

In terms of overall defense, I see Okafor as someone who will be able to work well in a solid team scheme, but he is not the type of guy who makes up for an overall poor team defense like the Sixers have.

I think you sort of hit the nail on the head in the last paragraph. Our biggest problem when Noel and Okafor have been on the floor together has been Noel not Okafor.

Noel hasn't lived up to expectations on the defensive end or rebounding -- in fact with all this talk about Okafor rebounding you might as well throw Noel in the mix because his numbers aren't much better.

Which is why it's always been puzzling to me this notion that we have to move Okafor like he's somehow responsible for Noel stagnation. Look Okafor moved to PF to accommodate Noel because he struggled with the transition to PF and really he wasn't much better before going down due to injury.

I've already stated my preference is to keep Noel, Okafor, and Embiid. Noel is insurance against Embiid health and frankly I'd think we'd be selling low at this point if we moved him. But if I had to move one of them I'll pick the player about to be RFA and who hasn't developed as expected as opposed to Okafor who has four years left on his deal and showed tremendous growth before getting injured.

With Embiid it's hard because he's pretty much a unicorn at this point until he sees the floor but I think he'll be everything Noel was not playing next to Okafor. He'll be strong on the glass. He'll be strong inside. He'll be able to compensate for alot of the things Okafor doesn't do well. Hopefully, Okafor continues to grow as well so it becomes less of an issue.

I also think going back to the point about small ball teams most of them are not equipped to deal with two competent bigs. They can switch off one like what the GSW do with Green and Festus Ezeli/Bogut but two competant bigs cause them to have to bench one of their better players in favor of a lesser big.

[bryanwithawhy]

Don't know if anyone else has talked about Hinkie on the Lowe Podcast. No breaking news, but some interesting things. Talked about when he interviewed for the job, asked Josh what Josh's goals were for the team. Josh wanted a parade. He wants to win championships. So in another Hinkie-ism, Hinkie said "Your crops have been eaten." The bad moves from past years (Bynum, etc) stripped the team of assets. Going to take awhile to get to a championship caliber team. We started from a low spot. Talked about how the Sixers have invested heavily in scouting and are counting on that to give them an edge. Said we just don't know about Embiid. Compared to when they drafted him, they are much more certain that he CAN be a great player based on the things they have seen him do against NBA players (other Sixers) in scrimmages. But it is less certain that he can be completely healthy after he's sat out for 2 years. As far as free agency, said there is a good chance this offseason that the team could spend 10 to 15 times the amount on free agents than the previous 3 years combined. Saric: we don't know for sure that he is coming over, but all signs are pointing in the right direction. Really stressed the lottery picks. 53% chance at Top 2 pick, 50% chance of two picks in the Top 4 or 5. Said we could have 7 lottery picks on the roster next season.

I was really excited for this podcast but it kind of let me down. I was hoping he would be more candid.

[ET Da Gawd]

I'd say Cousins and Valanciunas were similar physically mature when they entered the league. I agree that rebounding is a concern given his rookie performance as that is not something that should suffer on a bad team... but he was a solid rebounder at Duke. I think he has the size and length to be a good rebouonder, but is hurt by not being able to get to balls in space. I do think he will adapt to no longer being the biggest buy out there, and he will be a whole lot stronger at 25 than he was at 19. If anything, I was disapointed to see the combo of Jah and Noel not beig able to rebound effectively together.

In terms of overall defense, I see Okafor as someone who will be able to work well in a solid team scheme, but he is not the type of guy who makes up for an overall poor team defense like the Sixers have.

I think you sort of hit the nail on the head in the last paragraph. Our biggest problem when Noel and Okafor have been on the floor together has been Noel not Okafor.

Noel hasn't lived up to expectations on the defensive end or rebounding -- in fact with all this talk about Okafor rebounding you might as well throw Noel in the mix because his numbers aren't much better.

Which is why it's always been puzzling to me this notion that we have to move Okafor like he's somehow responsible for Noel stagnation. Look Okafor moved to PF to accommodate Noel because he struggled with the transition to PF and really he wasn't much better before going down due to injury.

I've already stated my preference is to keep Noel, Okafor, and Embiid. Noel is insurance against Embiid health and frankly I'd think we'd be selling low at this point if we moved him. But if I had to move one of them I'll pick the player about to be RFA and who hasn't developed as expected as opposed to Okafor who has four years left on his deal and showed tremendous growth before getting injured.

With Embiid it's hard because he's pretty much a unicorn at this point until he sees the floor but I think he'll be everything Noel was not playing next to Okafor. He'll be strong on the glass. He'll be strong inside. He'll be able to compensate for alot of the things Okafor doesn't do well. Hopefully, Okafor continues to grow as well so it becomes less of an issue.

I also think going back to the point about small ball teams most of them are not equipped to deal with two competent bigs. They can switch off one like what the GSW do with Green and Festus Ezeli/Bogut but two competant bigs cause them to have to bench one of their better players in favor of a lesser big.

I can't say it any better, ezeli and bogut aren't good iso players on the block so it's not a threat as much

[rallydurham]

For the umpteenth time it doesn't really work to play two "bigs" together anymore.

Sure you can play two guys who are big if one happens to have a perimeter game. Examples: Bosh, nowitzki, anderson etc... you can play two "bigs" together if one is a total freak like blake griffin or LaMarcus Aldridge but these type of lineups have had limited playoff success despite those two being terrific PFs on good rosters who held up okay without them too which suggests those lineups aren't optimally constructed.

You just cant expect to hurt teams down low because you are bigger than them. That's not a good tradeoff anymore because of the illegal defense rule changes and the 3pt efficiency increase

[spikeslovechild]

For the umpteenth time it doesn't really work to play two "bigs" together anymore.

Sure you can play two guys who are big if one happens to have a perimeter game. Examples: Bosh, nowitzki, anderson etc... you can play two "bigs" together if one is a total freak like blake griffin or LaMarcus Aldridge but these type of lineups have had limited playoff success despite those two being terrific PFs on good rosters who held up okay without them too which suggests those lineups aren't optimally constructed.

You just cant expect to hurt teams down low because you are bigger than them. That's not a good tradeoff anymore because of the illegal defense rule changes and the 3pt efficiency increase

I don't know the Lakers seemed to do just fine with both Bynum and Gasol in their lineup. They may have won back to back championships in 2009/2010 and lost in the finals in 2008.

The real problem isn't the efficiency of having two bigs on the roster it's finding two quality bigs to begin with. Which is why small ball makes sense to a great extent for teams because there just hasn't been much in the way talent until recently.

But that starting to change

[ET Da Gawd]

I foresee Okafor and Embiid as a Z-Bo Gasol like combo with ingram or simmons as the dynamic 3


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[Mik317]

For the umpteenth time it doesn't really work to play two "bigs" together anymore.

Sure you can play two guys who are big if one happens to have a perimeter game. Examples: Bosh, nowitzki, anderson etc... you can play two "bigs" together if one is a total freak like blake griffin or LaMarcus Aldridge but these type of lineups have had limited playoff success despite those two being terrific PFs on good rosters who held up okay without them too which suggests those lineups aren't optimally constructed.

You just cant expect to hurt teams down low because you are bigger than them. That's not a good tradeoff anymore because of the illegal defense rule changes and the 3pt efficiency increase

you speak with so much confidence.

**** no one knows.

[rallydurham]

Bynum and Gasol were both in their prime and were absolute monsters on the glass. Bynum was a defensive stalwart. Two of the best big men in the game. And that was a long time ago. The game has evolved a lot now that teams are studying analytics and demanding their teams play to maximum efficiency.

Okafor is not a defender. He was terrible defensively in college. He's overmatched.

Think about it this way. You can only score so often against a good defender. You're gonna miss shots. But you can get scored on every time with no defender.

If you don't protect the rim in the NBA you will not be successful defensively. Id prefer to build a team with a center who can do it so i don't have to find a shot blocking point guard

[Ericb5]

Bynum and Gasol were both in their prime and were absolute monsters on the glass. Bynum was a defensive stalwart. Two of the best big men in the game. And that was a long time ago. The game has evolved a lot now that teams are studying analytics and demanding their teams play to maximum efficiency.

Okafor is not a defender. He was terrible defensively in college. He's overmatched.

Think about it this way. You can only score so often against a good defender. You're gonna miss shots. But you can get scored on every time with no defender.

If you don't protect the rim in the NBA you will not be successful defensively. Id prefer to build a team with a center who can do it so i don't have to find a shot blocking point guard

Why do you keep referring to Okafor as a center? Whether he plays center or not long term is one thing, but he definitely isn't going to play center for us.

He will transition to the 4 or he will be traded.




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[bryanwithawhy]

We better have a ton of shooting if Okafor is our starting PF.

I think we have a logjam at PF/C. I think Covington's and Grant's best position is PF. Plus, I think Holmes is a keeper -- whether he ends up at C or PF.

That leaves us with too many PFs and Cs:

PF: Saric, Grant, Covington, Landry
C: Noel, Embiid, Okafor, Holmes

Especially if we get the 1st pick and draft Simmons -- whose ideal position is PF.

Honestly, all signs point toward Okafor being traded. I would be surprised if he is on the roster next season.

[SparksFly87]

We better have a ton of shooting if Okafor is our starting PF.

I think we have a logjam at PF/C. I think Covington's and Grant's best position is PF. Plus, I think Holmes is a keeper -- whether he ends up at C or PF.

That leaves us with too many PFs and Cs:

PF: Saric, Grant, Covington, Landry
C: Noel, Embiid, Okafor, Holmes

Especially if we get the 1st pick and draft Simmons -- whose ideal position is PF.

Honestly, all signs point toward Okafor being traded. I would be surprised if he is on the roster next season.

What??? First of all Covington is a smallforward . Grant can play both but should be a 3 if he gets a jumper. Landry is not part of the future . Embiid is not a sure thing yet. Noel is not a PF who can be built around Embiid. Holmes will be a solid back up big for us.

[bryanwithawhy]

Covington and Grant are stretch 4s in today's NBA. Covington is more suited to play SF than Grant is, but, I still think his ideal position is PF. Obviously, Landry isn't part of the future. I am just listening the roster spots for next year.

I actually really like Noel's game, but, I think if the right trade(s) come along they might deal Noel and Okafor.

[Ericb5]

Covington and Grant are stretch 4s in today's NBA. Covington is more suited to play SF than Grant is, but, I still think his ideal position is PF. Obviously, Landry isn't part of the future. I am just listening the roster spots for next year.

I actually really like Noel's game, but, I think if the right trade(s) come along they might deal Noel and Okafor.

Calling Grant a stretch anything is silly, and the idea of Covington being considered a stretch 4 shows how silly this whole "modern NBA" bias is.

Grant and Covington are meaningless in terms of considering our future. They are both can be keepers, but they both can be dropped off at the next stop if need be.

In my opinion, I think it is about a 50/50 proposition of Okafor either succeeding at the 4, or needing to be traded, but that isn't going to become clear this summer. If we draft Simmons then Okafor's chances of being traded probably rise, but lets see what happens at the lottery first.

[spikeslovechild]

We better have a ton of shooting if Okafor is our starting PF.

I think we have a logjam at PF/C. I think Covington's and Grant's best position is PF. Plus, I think Holmes is a keeper -- whether he ends up at C or PF.

That leaves us with too many PFs and Cs:

PF: Saric, Grant, Covington, Landry
C: Noel, Embiid, Okafor, Holmes

Especially if we get the 1st pick and draft Simmons -- whose ideal position is PF.

Honestly, all signs point toward Okafor being traded. I would be surprised if he is on the roster next season.

A couple of things. I think Covington and Saric can play SF.

Noel and Landry should be moved (assuming Simmons is brought in). Look I've said before that we shouldn't move Landry while giving up assets but he's sort of played himself into a position where thats not a consideration at this point. He deserves to play next season.

I'm not really worried about where to play Grant. Ideally you'd move him for a guard but I don't think he has much value.

[ET Da Gawd]

We better have a ton of shooting if Okafor is our starting PF.

I think we have a logjam at PF/C. I think Covington's and Grant's best position is PF. Plus, I think Holmes is a keeper -- whether he ends up at C or PF.

That leaves us with too many PFs and Cs:

PF: Saric, Grant, Covington, Landry
C: Noel, Embiid, Okafor, Holmes

Especially if we get the 1st pick and draft Simmons -- whose ideal position is PF.

Honestly, all signs point toward Okafor being traded. I would be surprised if he is on the roster next season.

See, this is that BS I keep talking about, lmfaooo, Roco and Grant are 4s???? **** no...Roco and Grant are SFs, but they're buns my g. Okafor is a PF, Noel is PF/C....Embiid is C....yall dudes are so gotdamn weird, I dont watch bball to see untalented players who can barely shoot FTs at a good clip run around and chuck 3s because "according to advanced stats 3s are the only shot to take"...Imma pray for yall man, A lot of new cats running around saying big men are obselete. Thats not it, trash big men are obsolete, thats why 90% of the big in todays game are just rebound and block dummies. If you have bigs with talent you would literally be an idiot to not use them. Only 2 teams won without smallball, 275+lb Lebrons heat & The Super Splash brothers. Other than those two, you need TWO GOOD BIGS PERIOD!!!!! Clippers struggle because they lack a true perimeter wing scorer, JJ Redick and Crawford will not cut it.

[ET Da Gawd]

I absolutely cannot wait until this small ball fad goes and everyone is league is left naked because they dont have any bigmen. I really dont get it, so many bum athletes or bum big men have resorted to taking 3s because they have no game and "modern" bball says thats the way to play. It's hilarious, GSW is literally making everyone in the league play into their hands, they want you to go small so they can really dust you. Only to way beat a GSW is to beat em up downlow like SAS did a cpl weeks ago. Shoutout to Paul George failing at the 4 this year. Basketball has been around a long time, these little fads still cannot take away the truth, Talented bigs will always run the game.