Looking back, was Hinkie the right choice to carry out the rebuild?

[PhilasFinest]

I can understand had the owners decided on another GM to carry out the process... but with the rapid Bryan Colangelo hire and all of the "bringing in a basketball guy" non-sense this appears to be an abandonment of the process in favor of a quick fix.

To go through years of tanking pain and then have the owners bail and go for a quick fix is the worst of both worlds. The team owners come out of this looking terrible and unable to stick with a plan, while the "Chairman" comes out looking even worse.

I am not in favor of JC hiring his son. You could see this coming months ago, and fans just refused to come to grips with what the outcome was going to be. All that being said, BC may still come in and make the right moves and get the team going in the right direction. He may not. But I am not going to automatically say Hinkie was going to make all the right moves if he stayed.

Hinkie may not have made every move perfectly but what is definitely a fact is Hinkie would never give away assets for crap or put us in salary cap hell. 2 Things Bryan very well may do.

How do you know this?

Hinkie was never in the drivers seat in terms of making deals to IMPROVE us on the court. He was great at flipping contracts and acquiring draft picks but not once has he shown he could make a deal, in our favor to bring in anyone of substance.

Im not saying he couldn't, but its a lot easier to pawn off things for 2nd round picks than it is to acquire meaningful players via trades/FA.

[Ericb5]

I am not in favor of JC hiring his son. You could see this coming months ago, and fans just refused to come to grips with what the outcome was going to be. All that being said, BC may still come in and make the right moves and get the team going in the right direction. He may not. But I am not going to automatically say Hinkie was going to make all the right moves if he stayed.

Hinkie may not have made every move perfectly but what is definitely a fact is Hinkie would never give away assets for crap or put us in salary cap hell. 2 Things Bryan very well may do.

How do you know this?

Hinkie was never in the drivers seat in terms of making deals to IMPROVE us on the court. He was great at flipping contracts and acquiring draft picks but not once has he shown he could make a deal, in our favor to bring in anyone of substance.

Im not saying he couldn't, but its a lot easier to pawn off things for 2nd round picks than it is to acquire meaningful players via trades/FA.

We know it because Hinkie didn't have the same flawed thinking that most GM's have. He would never sign a bandaid free agent before it was time, and that is he classic mistake.

The Kenny Thomas like deals that hamstrung the Sixers for years would never be offered. How about when Bill King gave Aaron McKie and Eric Snow long contracts way over their value when there was basically no competition?

Matt Geiger anyone?

Hinkie would never make a move that sacrificed the future for the sake of today unless it was for a star player. It isn't in his dna. As soon as a GM's primary focus is winning games this year, instead of winning over the long haul, you are screwed.

That's how we got the Mo Cheeks and Jim Obrien teams. Farting around with a team that couldn't win for years.





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[James40]

He was fine when it comes to tearing down a team, but Noel, Embiid, Saric, and Okafor? Why so many bigs?

3 years in and they have gotten worse at playing basketball, not better and maybe a big part of that falls on BB, but as I said a thousand times, the Sixers never had to be this bad.

Better basketball was played at the high school level.

[PhilasFinest]

Hinkie may not have made every move perfectly but what is definitely a fact is Hinkie would never give away assets for crap or put us in salary cap hell. 2 Things Bryan very well may do.

How do you know this?

Hinkie was never in the drivers seat in terms of making deals to IMPROVE us on the court. He was great at flipping contracts and acquiring draft picks but not once has he shown he could make a deal, in our favor to bring in anyone of substance.

Im not saying he couldn't, but its a lot easier to pawn off things for 2nd round picks than it is to acquire meaningful players via trades/FA.

We know it because Hinkie didn't have the same flawed thinking that most GM's have. He would never sign a bandaid free agent before it was time, and that is he classic mistake.

The Kenny Thomas like deals that hamstrung the Sixers for years would never be offered. How about when Bill King gave Aaron McKie and Eric Snow long contracts way over their value when there was basically no competition?

Matt Geiger anyone?

Hinkie would never make a move that sacrificed the future for the sake of today unless it was for a star player. It isn't in his dna. As soon as a GM's primary focus is winning games this year, instead of winning over the long haul, you are screwed.

That's how we got the Mo Cheeks and Jim Obrien teams. Farting around with a team that couldn't win for years.





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Wrong. Your ASSUMING Hinkie wouldn't have signed a "band aid free agent" because he never signed anyone meaningful. He was in a compete tear down where winning and roster construction meant nothing at all. Not to mention the joke of a roster he had compiled and bridges burnt with agents due to lowballing everyone with min salary long term deals. Nobody was even listening if we were interested in terms of actual NBA talent.

Sure, he may have been stone cold and stuck to his thinking.....but its a lot easier to stand pat and not make potential desperate moves when your not trying to win. Flip the switch, turn up the heat and have your bosses say "you need to start winning" and see what happens.

We will never know. But lets not act like Hinkie has the track record of RC Buford. He did a good job implementing a long term plan, tearing down a terrible roster and compiling a good amount of assets. Outside of those things, he didnt display a lick of ability to construct an actual NBA roster.

[rallydurham]

Roster construction is a lot more difficult today than it was say 20 years ago when it was as simple as "there are five positions try to get a guy to fill each one of them".

It does actually matter that your players can function as a unit on each end. It's not like the old days where jordan can just shoot on every play or you can just throw it to olajuwon in the post a lot since they scrapped illegal defense rules and not just your shooting guard can make three pointers.

But roster construction isn't THAT difficult. A lot of teams kinda luck their way into it. Hinkie could have figured it out i assure you. His problem was that he was going best player available and completely ignoring current results which made his progress look much more limited than it really was. A few average pieces scattered around the roster would have made the team relatively competitive. That just wasn't his goal. Hell they could have reduced their tempo or insisted certain players not shoot threes and had better short term wins results

Basically you need
1) someone who can get dribble penetration.
2) outside shooting
3) a guy who can't guard anyone
4) guys who can defend multiple positions
5) rebounding/screen setting
6) someone who can finish efficiently around the basket
7) someone who can limit opponents efficient shots around the basket


Just trying to make sure okafor fans had one category for them so i slipped #3 in there

[CoreyGallagher]

Okafor is probably among the most qualified #6's in the league, so...

Since acquisition of Ish, Okafor had the second highest fg% inside of 10 feet in the entire NBA (67.5%) trailing only Deandre Jordan (70.8%) who is basically spoon fed dunks at the rim (> 4 fga). During that span DJ lead the NBA in dunk attempts w/ 162 (second had 136, Okafor had 25), 67% of his shots were dunks. 12.5% of Okafor's were. That should put into perspective just how efficient Okafor can be at finishing around the basket.

[James40]

Well its a business so there's a good argument that you aren't maximizing profits by winning 10 games. 20 wins is still gonna net the same pick and you can always tank purposely the last few weeks if needed

Now they can say "we got a basketball guy in place to oversee the rebuild please renew your tickets"

I was totally fine with the direction but the board wasn't and you have to make sure you protect your job. Who cares if hinkie is ultimately proven right (i think he would have been) if he's not there to reap the benefits.

He could have easily trotted out a team that was competitive and still maximized it's chances in the lottery. Possibly kept his job and made the team watchable.

Looking back the MCW pick was a killer for hinkie because even though he made an amazing trade to salvage the horrible pick it fueled the naysayers who didn't think he knew what he was doing and delayed the rebuild. The extra year setback for embiid was obviously rough too because you didn't have a shiny new toy to point to or give people a reason to come to games. The okafor over porzingis pick was just dumb in my opinion who cares if he would not work out... porzingis/embiid/noel rotation in the front court could have been devastating

Being a Hinkie hater myself, I never understood why he was ripped for drafting MCW, he was what 10th or 11th? Obviously MCW didn't improve his game enough but I don't put that all on Hinkie either.

I still hate the Embiid pick and hope he proves me wrong but the MCW pick, and the Okafor pick I like and really liked at the time.

[sixers hoops]

Well its a business so there's a good argument that you aren't maximizing profits by winning 10 games. 20 wins is still gonna net the same pick and you can always tank purposely the last few weeks if needed

Now they can say "we got a basketball guy in place to oversee the rebuild please renew your tickets"

I was totally fine with the direction but the board wasn't and you have to make sure you protect your job. Who cares if hinkie is ultimately proven right (i think he would have been) if he's not there to reap the benefits.

He could have easily trotted out a team that was competitive and still maximized it's chances in the lottery. Possibly kept his job and made the team watchable.

Looking back the MCW pick was a killer for hinkie because even though he made an amazing trade to salvage the horrible pick it fueled the naysayers who didn't think he knew what he was doing and delayed the rebuild. The extra year setback for embiid was obviously rough too because you didn't have a shiny new toy to point to or give people a reason to come to games. The okafor over porzingis pick was just dumb in my opinion who cares if he would not work out... porzingis/embiid/noel rotation in the front court could have been devastating

Being a Hinkie hater myself, I never understood why he was ripped for drafting MCW, he was what 10th or 11th? Obviously MCW didn't improve his game enough but I don't put that all on Hinkie either.

I still hate the Embiid pick and hope he proves me wrong but the MCW pick, and the Okafor pick I like and really liked at the time.

I liked all of his picks except Saric. I thought after having Noel out for a season and drafting Embiid who was likely out for the season, he should have went for a player who could actually play and we could begin to develop. I would have have taken Lavine, Harris, or James Young at the time. In retrospect, Saric should be better than those guys.

[rallydurham]

Noel was the best prospect in that draft though. Both those picks were correct if you have a long term view.

MCW was a pretty terrible prospect I'm not sure why he ever took him other than he thought he had the size they were looking for. I mean the Greek freak leaps off the page as a high upside guy. No one would care what their record was last year if they had that monster on the roster hinkie would still be here.

MCW just didn't fit the directive. I think he got scared and went with a guy he thought could produce right away. But the projections couldn't have possibly liked MCW he just wasn't good in college. Not sure why i guy who can't shoot in college 39% fg, 29% 3's was even under consideration for the type of offense he was looking to build

[hawkguy]

Yes, for the stage I.

[Winejk]

Just want to give a huge THANK YOU to Sam Hinkie. Colangelo might get the credit, but really it was Hinkie's work in the beginning that made this all possible.

Colangelo has made some good moves - Belinelli and Ilyasova - might have made some bad moves - Noel and Okafor - but the pillars of the organization - Embiid, Simmons and Covington - are all on Sam.

I have no doubt Philly will be at least a one term dynasty (as long as Embiid and Simmons are around), but I can't help but think that if Hinkie were still around, we would have stashed lottery picks in 2025 and beyond that would sustain the Sixers into a long term dynasty.

Where ever you are, what ever you are doing Sam Hinkie....THANK YOU!

[XDevilBoiX]

[WMDman]

TTP

[76ciology]

To answer the OP.

Yes.

When the goal is to eliminate mediocrity, there will be casualties. We naturally fight for justice, balance or parity. Just go to GB and every month there’s like a thread on how to balance the competition and the lottery.

That stage of the process means directly or indirectly offending player agents, owners and other people inside the NBA circle.

Imagine creating a movement that will emphasize the elimination of importance for the middle class of NBA players.

How many years did we underpay RoCo? Remember how KJ McDaniel and his agent kind of rebelled against us for this?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/ct-spt-bulls-stan-van-gundy-tanking-20180411-story.html

How many mediocre players did we turn away despite having free money to spend with our cap? Consider that most of the player agents have only mediocre players on their pool and how many years they’ve been profiting getting %s off overpaid mediocre players.

How do we explain to owners that their team will face a team that is trying to lose on purpose that ticket sales may not be that good when we visit their home games?

What happened to Noel, Okafor and MCW’s career? Yeah, the fault is mostly credited to them but you can’t deny that being part of historically losing team has a negative effect on your career and personal stats.

Was the KP story of his agent telling hinkie not to take his player true?

Most importantly, how many teams will now tank to follow the Sixers footsteps that means a larger movement of creating cap space and more unwatchable games? I think we’re seeing this lately with how poor the competition is and with 7-8 teams trying to lose on purpose.

Hinkie was a nobody that fits being the fall guy role of that part of the process.

[Wilfried]

Belgian Sports Newspaper (I'm from Belgium) has an article on Sam Hinkie:
https://www.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20180412_03459119



Talking about the fact the Sixers are seen as the future of the NBA, Hinkie was the architect, started to loose seasons with the objective to become very good in the long run, ... and now everyone sees his brilliance

[jbent87]

Well its a business so there's a good argument that you aren't maximizing profits by winning 10 games. 20 wins is still gonna net the same pick and you can always tank purposely the last few weeks if needed

Now they can say "we got a basketball guy in place to oversee the rebuild please renew your tickets"

I was totally fine with the direction but the board wasn't and you have to make sure you protect your job. Who cares if hinkie is ultimately proven right (i think he would have been) if he's not there to reap the benefits.

He could have easily trotted out a team that was competitive and still maximized it's chances in the lottery. Possibly kept his job and made the team watchable.

Looking back the MCW pick was a killer for hinkie because even though he made an amazing trade to salvage the horrible pick it fueled the naysayers who didn't think he knew what he was doing and delayed the rebuild. The extra year setback for embiid was obviously rough too because you didn't have a shiny new toy to point to or give people a reason to come to games. The okafor over porzingis pick was just dumb in my opinion who cares if he would not work out... porzingis/embiid/noel rotation in the front court could have been devastating

Being a Hinkie hater myself, I never understood why he was ripped for drafting MCW, he was what 10th or 11th? Obviously MCW didn't improve his game enough but I don't put that all on Hinkie either.

I still hate the Embiid pick and hope he proves me wrong but the MCW pick, and the Okafor pick I like and really liked at the time.

I would think a lot of people aren't going around owning this like they may have a couple of years ago.

[TTP]

Well its a business so there's a good argument that you aren't maximizing profits by winning 10 games. 20 wins is still gonna net the same pick and you can always tank purposely the last few weeks if needed

Now they can say "we got a basketball guy in place to oversee the rebuild please renew your tickets"

I was totally fine with the direction but the board wasn't and you have to make sure you protect your job. Who cares if hinkie is ultimately proven right (i think he would have been) if he's not there to reap the benefits.

He could have easily trotted out a team that was competitive and still maximized it's chances in the lottery. Possibly kept his job and made the team watchable.

Looking back the MCW pick was a killer for hinkie because even though he made an amazing trade to salvage the horrible pick it fueled the naysayers who didn't think he knew what he was doing and delayed the rebuild. The extra year setback for embiid was obviously rough too because you didn't have a shiny new toy to point to or give people a reason to come to games. The okafor over porzingis pick was just dumb in my opinion who cares if he would not work out... porzingis/embiid/noel rotation in the front court could have been devastating

Being a Hinkie hater myself, I never understood why he was ripped for drafting MCW, he was what 10th or 11th? Obviously MCW didn't improve his game enough but I don't put that all on Hinkie either.

I still hate the Embiid pick and hope he proves me wrong but the MCW pick, and the Okafor pick I like and really liked at the time.

I would think a lot of people aren't going around owning this like they may have a couple of years ago.

How about that whole post?

Likes the Okafor and MCW picks.

Hates Hinkie and the Embiid pick.

Dude needs to pull a Costanza and start doing the opposite of all of his natural instincts.

[Unbreakable99]

Being a Hinkie hater myself, I never understood why he was ripped for drafting MCW, he was what 10th or 11th? Obviously MCW didn't improve his game enough but I don't put that all on Hinkie either.

I still hate the Embiid pick and hope he proves me wrong but the MCW pick, and the Okafor pick I like and really liked at the time.

I would think a lot of people aren't going around owning this like they may have a couple of years ago.

How about that whole post?

Likes the Okafor and MCW picks.

Hates Hinkie and the Embiid pick.

Dude needs to pull a Costanza and start doing the opposite of all of his natural instincts.

LMAO! It’s funny because it’s true.

[76ciology]

http://www.philly.com/philly/columnists/maria-panaritis/sixers-76ers-nba-playoffs-embiid-simmons-josh-harris-sam-hinkie-tanking-trust-process-maria-panaritis-20180413.html

[TTP]

Morey was asked in his AMA today whether Hinkie would get another shot managing a team:

“For sure, Sam is one of the top General Managers available, he will get another chance in not too long”

Also responded “yes” when he was asked whether most league executives agree that Hinkie has a place in the league.