2017 Draft: Fultz trade and other 17 draft discussion

[the_process]

If we traded Fultz straight up for the 3rd pick in this draft does a team accept? Fultz doesn’t have high trade value however this draft doesn’t have too end guard play at the top of the draft.

Wow.. this is waaaaay too premature.

Doncic’s the only player I might consider trading Fultz for.

This draft is really weak at the top. After Doncic, it’s either JJJ or Bamba.

To answer your question, teams will be crazy not to trade a top 3 pick for Fultz. Fultz is younger than most of those top guys in the 2018 draft.

Teams will go after Fultz like how they went after Harden and Joe Johnson. The game is just designed for mismatch nightmare guards who can run the PnR.

JJJ is the clear #1 IMO. Doncic is going to struggle on this side of the pond. But I hope more GM’s have your opinion! Be easier and cost less to get up

[Kobblehead]

While Doncic's ability to create his own shot might not make the jump, I think his defense is going to be a pleasant surprise. I really like Doncic. I think his distributing and shooting are instant translaters. And I think he holds his own defensively and guards both SF and SG. The basketball IQ is also off the charts.

[LloydFree]

If we traded Fultz straight up for the 3rd pick in this draft does a team accept? Fultz doesn’t have high trade value however this draft doesn’t have too end guard play at the top of the draft.

Hail no. I don't think there is a team in the top 8 that would trade their pick for Fultz.

[the_process]

No one is moving a top 3 pick for just Fultz. But I would think Fultz plus 10 would be a very attractive trade up package.

Atlanta, Orlando, and Phoenix should all have interest in that package depending on how the lotto balls bounce.

[Sasashi]

BC definitely miscalculated on trading up for Fultz. Disappointing. He should have just stayed pat at 3.

Should have taken Lonzo Ball then right?

By the way....do you still feel that Lonzo will be the best player from 2017 draft and the true superstar transcendent talent that you claimed from earlier in the year? Or have you changed your mind??


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[Unbreakable99]

BC definitely miscalculated on trading up for Fultz. Disappointing. He should have just stayed pat at 3.

Should have taken Lonzo Ball then right?

By the way....do you still feel that Lonzo will be the best player from 2017 draft and the true superstar transcendent talent that you claimed from earlier in the year? Or have you changed your mind??


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Yes. I'd be happier with Ball. Right now I would rank him behind Mitchell and Tatum for sure based off this season from the 17 draft class. Outside of them he has played better than most rookies. His defense is pretty good. His shot will come around. We will see if he can outplay Mitchell and Tatum in the future though.

[LloydFree]

BC definitely miscalculated on trading up for Fultz. Disappointing. He should have just stayed pat at 3.

Should have taken Lonzo Ball then right?

By the way....do you still feel that Lonzo will be the best player from 2017 draft and the true superstar transcendent talent that you claimed from earlier in the year? Or have you changed your mind??


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Yes. I'd be happier with Ball. Right now I would rank him behind Mitchell and Tatum for sure based off this season from the 17 draft class. Outside of them he has played better than most rookies. His defense is pretty good. His shot will come around. We will see if he can outplay Mitchell and Tatum in the future though.

I still think Ball will eventually have more impact than Tatum. Mitchell, I can't say that. Mitchell is a different kind of athlete and plays with a mean streak. He's legit. Has nothing to do with system or who he is playing with. Tatum still has another gear, with his playmaking ability, but I don't know that he has superstar ceiling athleticism.

[bryanwithawhy]

No one is moving a top 3 pick for just Fultz. But I would think Fultz plus 10 would be a very attractive trade up package.

Atlanta, Orlando, and Phoenix should all have interest in that package depending on how the lotto balls bounce.

I know it's a sunk cost, but Colangelo would have essentially traded the 3rd pick, 10th pick and likely top 5 pick for the 3rd pick. That would be very Bryan Colangelo-esque.

[Sportfan73]

He’s not going anywhere. You start him, then pull him early and never spend a second of the game without either Ben or him. Houston with CP3 and harden, Miami with wade and bron


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Except Fultz isn’t that good. And if he can’t shoot 3’s, he completely overlaps with Ben and they can’t play together.

Luckily, Fultz can still be sold as a young guy with a high ceiling. And there’s some stars who should be available this summer. Or a trade up to grab a guy like Jaren Jackson.

The idea they won’t trade Fultz this summer is just silly. BC looks worse every second Tatum is galaxies better than Fultz. But if he gets another shiny new toy for Fultz, that can distract from the fact he got sodomized by Ainge. (Also BC has to hope that SAC pick doesn’t end up in the top 5.

Lol. He “isn’t that good. “ dude he’s played 9 games, 4 of which he shouldn’t have. This is a god awful take. Everything aside from his shooting has been BETTER than advertised already. He’s not even 20 years old. He’s not going anywhere. Sign pg or bron, or give JJ another inflated deal and roll it over to 2019. I think that you start next year with Kelle as the 6th man but he’s in the starting lineup by January and really takes off by the ASB. JJ gets to go to a bench role that he is still featured in and Dario stays a starter until a star comes alone that pushes him to the bench as the 6th man and JJ to 7th man.


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[Unbreakable99]

He’s not going anywhere. You start him, then pull him early and never spend a second of the game without either Ben or him. Houston with CP3 and harden, Miami with wade and bron


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Except Fultz isn’t that good. And if he can’t shoot 3’s, he completely overlaps with Ben and they can’t play together.

Luckily, Fultz can still be sold as a young guy with a high ceiling. And there’s some stars who should be available this summer. Or a trade up to grab a guy like Jaren Jackson.

The idea they won’t trade Fultz this summer is just silly. BC looks worse every second Tatum is galaxies better than Fultz. But if he gets another shiny new toy for Fultz, that can distract from the fact he got sodomized by Ainge. (Also BC has to hope that SAC pick doesn’t end up in the top 5.

Lol. He “isn’t that good. “ dude he’s played 9 games, 4 of which he shouldn’t have. This is a god awful take. Everything aside from his shooting has been BETTER than advertised already. He’s not even 20 years old. He’s not going anywhere. Sign pg or bron, or give JJ another inflated deal and roll it over to 2019. I think that you start next year with Kelle as the 6th man but he’s in the starting lineup by January and really takes off by the ASB. JJ gets to go to a bench role that he is still featured in and Dario stays a starter until a star comes alone that pushes him to the bench as the 6th man and JJ to 7th man.


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As a guy who hated the trade to get Fultz I must admit he does look quicker than I thought he would look. He can get to his spots and shake players to get good looks. However he’s still a long ways away to justify that horrible trade. He needs to improve a lot but I like some of the things I see so far. He might become a good player. He still spins too much for my liking. He needs to be less predictable.

[gdog2004]

Fultz has a lot of physical tools and talent. Mentally he has to become a killer.
If he can do that, sky's the limit for him. His passing has been really really good so far.

[Simmons25]

BC definitely miscalculated on trading up for Fultz. Disappointing. He should have just stayed pat at 3.

And taken Josh Jackson like everyone was saying? No thanks. We likely weren't picking Tatum or Jackson (Even Celtics really wanted Jackson before he knifed Ainge)... we already had a SF in Covington so we weren't going there.

We had a need for a combo guard and the only guy worth looking at around pick 3 was D'Aaron Fox. Malik Monk and Dennis 'ACL' Smith were projected much later.

Like it or not Colangelo made the right decision at the time and it still could end up being the right decision.

Why do people keep saying Ainge wanted Jackson over Tatum just because he flew to watch Jackson workout? That’s nonsense. Ainge was doing his due diligence. Flying across country to watch someone workout doesn’t mean you prefer him over someone else. Maybe he did want Jackson over Tatum but flying to see him doesn’t mean that. BC just bought into the Fultz hype and traded a great asset to a rival we will hav wot go through to get to the finals.

Was he doing his "due diligence" AFTER the pick was traded? Remember at the time there was talk from other GMs in the league that it's virtually guaranteed that Celtics wanted Josh Jackson so badly over Fultz and Lonzo they were going to use their #1 pick to get him.

You're extremely naïve if you think Ainge suddenly traded down to #3 knowing Fultz and Lonzo were going #1 and #2... flew out to see their man Jackson... and then suddenly their plans completely changed to not take him at all at #3... and it just happened to coincide with Jackson cancelling on the Celtics whilst they were mid-air on the way to see him.

Absolutely 99.99999% they were going to take Jackson until he cancelled on them.

http://www.nbcsports.com/boston/boston-celtics/kansas-josh-jackson-refuses-to-work-out-with-boston-celtics-unless-promised-to-be-third-pick-in-nba-draft

Jackson, considered a strong athlete with questions about his shooting, is widely regarded as one of the draft’s top prospects behind anticipated first two picks Markelle Fultz and Lonzo Ball. Last week, an anonymous NBA general manager told Ford that he was “convinced” the Celtics would draft Jackson with the first overall pick.

[Arsenal]

And taken Josh Jackson like everyone was saying? No thanks. We likely weren't picking Tatum or Jackson (Even Celtics really wanted Jackson before he knifed Ainge)... we already had a SF in Covington so we weren't going there.

We had a need for a combo guard and the only guy worth looking at around pick 3 was D'Aaron Fox. Malik Monk and Dennis 'ACL' Smith were projected much later.

Like it or not Colangelo made the right decision at the time and it still could end up being the right decision.

Why do people keep saying Ainge wanted Jackson over Tatum just because he flew to watch Jackson workout? That’s nonsense. Ainge was doing his due diligence. Flying across country to watch someone workout doesn’t mean you prefer him over someone else. Maybe he did want Jackson over Tatum but flying to see him doesn’t mean that. BC just bought into the Fultz hype and traded a great asset to a rival we will hav wot go through to get to the finals.

Was he doing his "due diligence" AFTER the pick was traded? Remember at the time there was talk from other GMs in the league that it's virtually guaranteed that Celtics wanted Josh Jackson so badly over Fultz and Lonzo they were going to use their #1 pick to get him.

You're extremely naïve if you think Ainge suddenly traded down to #3 knowing Fultz and Lonzo were going #1 and #2... flew out to see their man Jackson... and then suddenly their plans completely changed to not take him at all at #3... and it just happened to coincide with Jackson cancelling on the Celtics whilst they were mid-air on the way to see him.

Absolutely 99.99999% they were going to take Jackson until he cancelled on them.

http://www.nbcsports.com/boston/boston-celtics/kansas-josh-jackson-refuses-to-work-out-with-boston-celtics-unless-promised-to-be-third-pick-in-nba-draft

Jackson, considered a strong athlete with questions about his shooting, is widely regarded as one of the draft’s top prospects behind anticipated first two picks Markelle Fultz and Lonzo Ball. Last week, an anonymous NBA general manager told Ford that he was “convinced” the Celtics would draft Jackson with the first overall pick.

Talk is cheap. Especially about Ainge, who is well known to put BS out there one way or another. It's very easy to believe Ainge had Tatum higher than Jackson considering he could have drafted either one and chose Tatum.

[Simmons25]

Talk is cheap. Especially about Ainge, who is well known to put BS out there one way or another. It's very easy to believe Ainge had Tatum higher than Jackson considering he could have drafted either one and chose Tatum.

Yes Ainge... master manipulator at throwing people off the scent.... AFTER the fact. Always talks up who he would have drafted if they were available and they always happen to be stars. The man is a compulsive liar... just like he lied about wanting to always take Tatum.

Ainge was so good at throwing people off the scent he was crying and whinging about it even more after the NBA draft was done about the fact Josh Jackson dissed them... when it no longer mattered. That's not the actions of a man that never wanted Jackson in the first place and was just trying to throw teams off.

[HotelVitale]

Absolutely 99.99999% they were going to take Jackson until he cancelled on them.
http://www.nbcsports.com/boston/boston-celtics/kansas-josh-jackson-refuses-to-work-out-with-boston-celtics-unless-promised-to-be-third-pick-in-nba-draft

Jackson, considered a strong athlete with questions about his shooting, is widely regarded as one of the draft’s top prospects behind anticipated first two picks Markelle Fultz and Lonzo Ball. Last week, an anonymous NBA general manager told Ford that he was “convinced” the Celtics would draft Jackson with the first overall pick.

No reason to think this is true, that's incredibly thin evidence. There's so much BS information like this at draft time, it's a non-stop stream during the last month. Part of it seems like smoke screens and part of it's just reporters trying to come up with something and over-reporting the usual trade and prospect talks (99% of which don't go anywhere). This take makes no logical sense--no one's going to suddenly change their minds about a potential franchise-changing move because a guy won't come over to his house and hang out for a couple hours before the draft.

[Sixerscan]

Fultz since his return compared to the other one and dones whole seasons per 36 minutes:

Fultz 16.4P/5.8R/9.7A/1.9TOs/1.6S on 45.4 TS%
Ball 10.7/7.3/7.6/2.8/1.8 on 44.4
Tatum 16.3/6.0/1.9/1.7/1.1 on 58.6
Jackson 18.6/6.4/2.2/2.7/1.5 on 48.0
Fox 14.9/3.5/5.7/3.0/1.3 on 47.6
Lauri 19.3/9.0/1.4/1.5/0.6 on 55.4
Frank 9.5/3.7/5.3/2.9/1.4 on 43.1
DSJ 18.4/4.6/6.2/3.4/1.2 on 47.2

Not bad! Hopefully his efficiency/scoring continue to increase as he gets more comfortable, though it does seem more or less in line with the other PGs, and he has easily the best A/TO ratio (easily playing with the most talent though). Thought last night was easily his best performance to date.

I think this list highlights how hard it is to play point guard in the NBA as a teenager. There's a bunch of talented guys in this class that will be very good players. They aren't there yet though.

[Kobblehead]

Ainge was definitely hot on Jackson's trail. That's not to say he would have definitely taken him had they had that meeting. Maybe Ainge would been turned off after the meeting ala Fultz. By most accounts, Ainge was most impressed with Tatum and Fox.

[LloydFree]

Fultz since his return compared to the other one and dones whole seasons per 36 minutes:

Fultz 16.4P/5.8R/9.7A/1.9TOs/1.6S on 45.4 TS%
Ball 10.7/7.3/7.6/2.8/1.8 on 44.4
Tatum 16.3/6.0/1.9/1.7/1.1 on 58.6
Jackson 18.6/6.4/2.2/2.7/1.5 on 48.0
Fox 14.9/3.5/5.7/3.0/1.3 on 47.6
Lauri 19.3/9.0/1.4/1.5/0.6 on 55.4
Frank 9.5/3.7/5.3/2.9/1.4 on 43.1
DSJ 18.4/4.6/6.2/3.4/1.2 on 47.2

Not bad! Hopefully his efficiency/scoring continue to increase as he gets more comfortable, though it does seem more or less in line with the other PGs, and he has easily the best A/TO ratio (easily playing with the most talent though). Thought last night was easily his best performance to date.

I think this list highlights how hard it is to play point guard in the NBA as a teenager. There's a bunch of talented guys in this class that will be very good players. They aren't there yet though.

I don't know how reliable per 36 numbers are when they've come in 5 games and half the minutes were garbage time against some of the worst teams in the league.

[TTP]

No one is moving a top 3 pick for just Fultz. But I would think Fultz plus 10 would be a very attractive trade up package.

Atlanta, Orlando, and Phoenix should all have interest in that package depending on how the lotto balls bounce.

I know it's a sunk cost, but Colangelo would have essentially traded the 3rd pick, 10th pick and likely top 5 pick for the 3rd pick. That would be very Bryan Colangelo-esque.

I agree with your overall point but if you do the math, that pick is more likely than not to be not top 5.

[JojoSlimbiid]

Josh Jackson has been playing in garbage time the whole season. Hopefully the same energy is being kept when it comes to the numbers he's put up. I know it's not though