The Very Normal Rookie Year of Markelle Fultz IV (use 2017 draft thread for discussion of trade)

[Negrodamus]

Did something happen in the past 48 hours? Why is there so much conversation about him right now in here?

[Bum Adebayo]

Already 4 threads for a guy who is not playing, just forget about him, he is not going to play this season.

[the_process]

BC needs to carnival barker it up, salvage some value for Fultz, sand let some other team deal with him.

Whats the rush?

Gotta get ahead of the curve.

On a separate but related note... if LeBron really did sign in Philly... Fultz and both 1sts are instant trade bait.

[gdog2004]

This idea that the injury is fake because now that it is gone his shooting problems remain is pure ignorance.

Whatever physically happened to him in the summer messed up his shot. Fixing the injury doesn’t automatically fix the shot. A jump shot, much like a golf swing, is something that can go off the rails, and that is clearly what has happened to Fultz. The train is off of the track, and he needs to get it back on the track.

I would have expected it to happen faster than it has, but the difficulty of getting it back on has nothing to do with why it came off in the first place. Since he once shot beautifully I have no doubt that he will again. He has all of the natural physical gifts required for it. It isn’t like he is trying to learn how to shoot the first time. He is trying to get back to how he used to shoot it.

I’m sure that there is a mental component to it too just as there is when a baseball player goes into a slump. It is difficult and frustrating to not be able to do something that you used to be able to do easily. That isn’t the same thing as a mental problem causing the train to derail in the first place.

Baseball players don’t go into slumps for mental reasons, but they prolong them for mental reasons.

He is going to come out of this at some point, and when that happens he should be on the same trajectory that he was when he was drafted. He still represents exactly what we need on this team, and once he gets back to normal I expect that he will provide it.

In 2 years I predict that he will be averaging 20, 5, and 5, and complete a big 3 for us. This will all just be a bad memory.


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Actually what is pure ignorance is believing a report that he cant raise his arm and then finding out he was shooting all during the "cant raise his arm period" and STILL believing the initial report. SMH
You speak about this like its commonplace for a guy to have completely lost his ability to shoot. It's not. It happens like NEVER.
That's why guys like Embiid say "I dont know WHAT is going on with Markelle" and BB said he has "never seen anything like it".
No one knows if Markelle will even play in the NBA at this point...like EVER.. because no one knows what is mentally wrong with him. He's healthy, he's in shape and he can't play on a team that desperately needs his college skill set.
So as many have said before, its all between the ears with him.

Pretty impressive that you are able to take a quote from someone that literally says "I don't know what is going on with Markelle" to mean you know exactly what is going on with the kid. Why not just accept that this is a super complicated situation and you may not have all the answers? The options aren't just (1) "he has a shoulder injury" or (2) "between the ears" (A phrase that you have repeated like 100 times in the last month and it would be lovely if you could switch it up a little bit). There's like 20 potential variables and a bunch of them may be at work (including assuredly a mental component.)

I've actually only said "between the ears" two or three times, unless I was quoting someone else.
How about "under the hair" ?

[76ciology]

He has worst body language i have ever seen by nba player in this pre game/practice videos.
Is that frustration by situation, or that's what who he is - i have no clue.

Well, if you’re already playing at a high level then suddenly you have to start from scratch, it would be frustrating.

[76ciology]

BC needs to carnival barker it up, salvage some value for Fultz, sand let some other team deal with him.

Whats the rush?

Gotta get ahead of the curve.

On a separate but related note... if LeBron really did sign in Philly... Fultz and both 1sts are instant trade bait.

I’m open in trading any assets aside Biid for Bron.

[LloydFree]

The good news is you only need one GM that still thinks Fultz is going to be good, to salvage something for him. The bad news is you'll never get back what you spent.

[gdog2004]

The good news is you only need one GM that still thinks Fultz is going to be good, to salvage something for him. The bad news is you'll never get back what you spent.

There is zero percent chance they trade Markelle Fultz in the next 2 years and very unlikely before his rookie deal is up. As long as BC is GM, that is a trade that wont happen. He will do whatever he can to salvage this situation. His job depends on it.
I think Fultz has a lot of talent, I really hope he turns it around and gets in the right mindset to play this game.

[LloydFree]

The good news is you only need one GM that still thinks Fultz is going to be good, to salvage something for him. The bad news is you'll never get back what you spent.

There is zero percent chance they trade Markelle Fultz in the next 2 years and very unlikely before his rookie deal is up. As long as BC is GM, that is a trade that wont happen. He will do whatever he can to salvage this situation. His job depends on it.
I think Fultz has a lot of talent, I really hope he turns it around and gets in the right mindset to play this game.

I think the opposite. I think Colangelo will look to remove Fultz from everyone's sight ASAP, so he doesn't have to relive this over and over. He'll package Fultz for a name veteran to help the lineup, within the next year, before he has to guarantee the 3rd season on his rookie deal. I think the damage to the relationship is already close to irreparable, based on how each side has tried to point fingers at the other for this nonsense.

[Kobblehead]

I think it's certainly more probable than 0% that he gets traded in the next couple of years. As a matter of fact, if we sign a star free agent this summer, I'll be outright shocked if he's not traded in a package for another star caliber player, soon after.

[76ciology]

I dont know if you guys will believe me. But I currently suffering something similar.

About last year, all happened at the same time. I was at my peak strength with my bench press (i was sacrificing form for more weight) and I was shooting well. I’d say I got cocky and it back fired.

Then.. i injured my shoulder from weight lifting. I had a minor tear before when i was white water rafting. It healed and the recent weight lifting injury tore it again, now its worse. I didnt get any help for most of my injuries are minor and they kind of heal themselves. Then because I couldnt lift much, I’d end up doing a lot of running&cardio, and end up having a minor tear with my achilles.

Right now, im in some kind of a brutal shooting slump. Sometimes my achilles would act up (couldnt move well and loss lift). I stay away from lifting heavy bench press, my shoulder is better but wasnt the same as before. Sometimes there will be a very slight pain when ever i shoot deep 3s or make strong chest/lead passes that makes you double guess when you make these actions.

I guess Fultz also just have a mix of different bad things all at once. A shooting slump with an injury at some point. Once injury was healed. There’s the shooting slump that leads to it being mental. As a shooter, shots not going in is really frustrating and really detrimental. And you want to be in the zone when shooting, a slight pain would really throw you off.

I’m at my 30s and quite stubborn. Fultz is like 19 and he has world class trainers and facilities.

Just sharing.

*p.s. havent tried practicing in virtual reality

[cksdayoff]

I dont know if you guys will believe me. But I currently suffering something similar.

About last year, all happened at the same time. I was at my peak strength with my bench press (i was sacrificing form for more weight) and I was shooting well. I’d say I got cocky and it back fired.

Then.. i injured my shoulder from weight lifting. I had a minor tear before when i was white water rafting. It healed and the recent weight lifting injury tore it again, now its worse. I didnt get any help for most of my injuries are minor and they kind of heal themselves. Then because I couldnt lift much, I’d end up doing a lot of running&cardio, and end up having a minor tear with my achilles.

Right now, im in some kind of a brutal shooting slump. Sometimes my achilles would act up. I stay away from lifting heavy bench press, my shoulder is better but wasnt the same as before. Sometimes there will be a very slight pain when ever i shoot deep 3s or make strong chest/lead passes that makes you double guess when you make these actions.

I guess Fultz also just have a mix of different bad things all at once. A shooting slump with an injury at some point. Once injury was healed. There’s the shooting slump that leads to it being mental. As a shooter, shots not going in is really frustrating and really detrimental. And you want to be in the zone when shooting, a slight pain would really throw you off.

I’m at my 30s and quite stubborn. Fultz is like 19 and he has world class trainers and facilities.

Just sharing.

*p.s. havent tried practicing in virtual reality

a lot of times, what happens is if you're nursing an injury, you start to overcompensate your body which leads to more injuries. i have sciatica and it does a number to other parts of my body because i start to put more pressure on other parts of my body just to do normal everyday things.

[gdog2004]

I dont know if you guys will believe me. But I currently suffering something similar.

About last year, all happened at the same time. I was at my peak strength with my bench press (i was sacrificing form for more weight) and I was shooting well. I’d say I got cocky and it back fired.

Then.. i injured my shoulder from weight lifting. I had a minor tear before when i was white water rafting. It healed and the recent weight lifting injury tore it again, now its worse. I didnt get any help for most of my injuries are minor and they kind of heal themselves. Then because I couldnt lift much, I’d end up doing a lot of running&cardio, and end up having a minor tear with my achilles.

Right now, im in some kind of a brutal shooting slump. Sometimes my achilles would act up (couldnt move well and loss lift). I stay away from lifting heavy bench press, my shoulder is better but wasnt the same as before. Sometimes there will be a very slight pain when ever i shoot deep 3s or make strong chest/lead passes that makes you double guess when you make these actions.

I guess Fultz also just have a mix of different bad things all at once. A shooting slump with an injury at some point. Once injury was healed. There’s the shooting slump that leads to it being mental. As a shooter, shots not going in is really frustrating and really detrimental. And you want to be in the zone when shooting, a slight pain would really throw you off.

I’m at my 30s and quite stubborn. Fultz is like 19 and he has world class trainers and facilities.

Just sharing.

*p.s. havent tried practicing in virtual reality

I think anyone who has done benching has tried to max multiple times or go down to 2-3 reps. That's how you get hurt with little shoulder tears. I would much rather be able to bench something 6-8 tmes and CONTROL it instead of it controlling me.
Having said that, it sounds like Fultz isnt injured right now so hopefully he can get back by next season. Nice to see a fellow lifter.

[TheRealKaboom]

I dont know if you guys will believe me. But I currently suffering something similar.

About last year, all happened at the same time. I was at my peak strength with my bench press (i was sacrificing form for more weight) and I was shooting well. I’d say I got cocky and it back fired.

Then.. i injured my shoulder from weight lifting. I had a minor tear before when i was white water rafting. It healed and the recent weight lifting injury tore it again, now its worse. I didnt get any help for most of my injuries are minor and they kind of heal themselves. Then because I couldnt lift much, I’d end up doing a lot of running&cardio, and end up having a minor tear with my achilles.

Right now, im in some kind of a brutal shooting slump. Sometimes my achilles would act up (couldnt move well and loss lift). I stay away from lifting heavy bench press, my shoulder is better but wasnt the same as before. Sometimes there will be a very slight pain when ever i shoot deep 3s or make strong chest/lead passes that makes you double guess when you make these actions.

I guess Fultz also just have a mix of different bad things all at once. A shooting slump with an injury at some point. Once injury was healed. There’s the shooting slump that leads to it being mental. As a shooter, shots not going in is really frustrating and really detrimental. And you want to be in the zone when shooting, a slight pain would really throw you off.

I’m at my 30s and quite stubborn. Fultz is like 19 and he has world class trainers and facilities.

Just sharing.

*p.s. havent tried practicing in virtual reality

Great, but how was Fultz injured? We know how Porzingis, Hayward, Cousins, etc. were injured, right? So tell me, how was Fultz injured?

[TheRealKaboom]

Already 4 threads for a guy who is not playing, just forget about him, he is not going to play this season.

He was the #1 overall pick in the draft. We're supposed to just "forget about him"?

Why is he not going to play this season?

[76ciology]

I dont know if you guys will believe me. But I currently suffering something similar.

About last year, all happened at the same time. I was at my peak strength with my bench press (i was sacrificing form for more weight) and I was shooting well. I’d say I got cocky and it back fired.

Then.. i injured my shoulder from weight lifting. I had a minor tear before when i was white water rafting. It healed and the recent weight lifting injury tore it again, now its worse. I didnt get any help for most of my injuries are minor and they kind of heal themselves. Then because I couldnt lift much, I’d end up doing a lot of running&cardio, and end up having a minor tear with my achilles.

Right now, im in some kind of a brutal shooting slump. Sometimes my achilles would act up (couldnt move well and loss lift). I stay away from lifting heavy bench press, my shoulder is better but wasnt the same as before. Sometimes there will be a very slight pain when ever i shoot deep 3s or make strong chest/lead passes that makes you double guess when you make these actions.

I guess Fultz also just have a mix of different bad things all at once. A shooting slump with an injury at some point. Once injury was healed. There’s the shooting slump that leads to it being mental. As a shooter, shots not going in is really frustrating and really detrimental. And you want to be in the zone when shooting, a slight pain would really throw you off.

I’m at my 30s and quite stubborn. Fultz is like 19 and he has world class trainers and facilities.

Just sharing.

*p.s. havent tried practicing in virtual reality

I think anyone who has done benching has tried to max multiple times or go down to 2-3 reps. That's how you get hurt with little shoulder tears. I would much rather be able to bench something 6-8 tmes and CONTROL it instead of it controlling me.
Having said that, it sounds like Fultz isnt injured right now so hopefully he can get back by next season. Nice to see a fellow lifter.

Yeah.. i now try to focus more on control than how heavy i lift on my chest workouts, specially with if i do flys. Really tough to balance weight lifting and playing basketball.

For Fultz, i guess its mostly mental for now. Mental like getting back his rhythm with some incidental symptoms/pain, second guessing with his movements and shooting slump. Its not like he had an amnesia or he’s gone psycho.

As a shooter. Combination of shooting slump and injuries (experiencing or recovering) is a pandora’s box of bad experience.

[76ciology]

I dont know if you guys will believe me. But I currently suffering something similar.

About last year, all happened at the same time. I was at my peak strength with my bench press (i was sacrificing form for more weight) and I was shooting well. I’d say I got cocky and it back fired.

Then.. i injured my shoulder from weight lifting. I had a minor tear before when i was white water rafting. It healed and the recent weight lifting injury tore it again, now its worse. I didnt get any help for most of my injuries are minor and they kind of heal themselves. Then because I couldnt lift much, I’d end up doing a lot of running&cardio, and end up having a minor tear with my achilles.

Right now, im in some kind of a brutal shooting slump. Sometimes my achilles would act up (couldnt move well and loss lift). I stay away from lifting heavy bench press, my shoulder is better but wasnt the same as before. Sometimes there will be a very slight pain when ever i shoot deep 3s or make strong chest/lead passes that makes you double guess when you make these actions.

I guess Fultz also just have a mix of different bad things all at once. A shooting slump with an injury at some point. Once injury was healed. There’s the shooting slump that leads to it being mental. As a shooter, shots not going in is really frustrating and really detrimental. And you want to be in the zone when shooting, a slight pain would really throw you off.

I’m at my 30s and quite stubborn. Fultz is like 19 and he has world class trainers and facilities.

Just sharing.

*p.s. havent tried practicing in virtual reality

Great, but how was Fultz injured? We know how Porzingis, Hayward, Cousins, etc. were injured, right? So tell me, how was Fultz injured?

Shoulder injury. You saw him patching up his shoulder, medical reports and him trying to loosen up his shoulder. I believe its not a single incident that lead him to injure it but it was compounded. Maybe by lifting heavy weights and maybe a prior shoulder injury that didnt completely healed.

Then it was further compounded when he was having a shooting slump at around that point when he injured it. I’d say the strength training did have a factor. Then MAYBE he tried to change his shot mechanics to survive pre-draft workouts and SL. I’d also guess that he continued to lift weights at SL time when his shoulder isnt completely healed. Maybe trainer told him to just focus on controlled lifting than heavy weight lifting. He also suffered from ankle injury so its likely he just tried to workout his upper body.

Then when injury either worsen or didnt improve, shooting slump and the change of shooting mechanic compounded leads to it being mental. By mental, its more of losing confidence and getting frustrated not him being psycho or suffering amnesia that he forgot the entire thing.

Im just guessing and just connecting the dots.

[LloydFree]

I dont know if you guys will believe me. But I currently suffering something similar.

About last year, all happened at the same time. I was at my peak strength with my bench press (i was sacrificing form for more weight) and I was shooting well. I’d say I got cocky and it back fired.

Then.. i injured my shoulder from weight lifting. I had a minor tear before when i was white water rafting. It healed and the recent weight lifting injury tore it again, now its worse. I didnt get any help for most of my injuries are minor and they kind of heal themselves. Then because I couldnt lift much, I’d end up doing a lot of running&cardio, and end up having a minor tear with my achilles.

Right now, im in some kind of a brutal shooting slump. Sometimes my achilles would act up (couldnt move well and loss lift). I stay away from lifting heavy bench press, my shoulder is better but wasnt the same as before. Sometimes there will be a very slight pain when ever i shoot deep 3s or make strong chest/lead passes that makes you double guess when you make these actions.

I guess Fultz also just have a mix of different bad things all at once. A shooting slump with an injury at some point. Once injury was healed. There’s the shooting slump that leads to it being mental. As a shooter, shots not going in is really frustrating and really detrimental. And you want to be in the zone when shooting, a slight pain would really throw you off.

I’m at my 30s and quite stubborn. Fultz is like 19 and he has world class trainers and facilities.

Just sharing.

*p.s. havent tried practicing in virtual reality

Great, but how was Fultz injured? We know how Porzingis, Hayward, Cousins, etc. were injured, right? So tell me, how was Fultz injured?

Evidently, Fultz was "injured" weightlifting. Even though in the last 4 months neither Brown, Colangelo or Fultz have ever mentioned that he was "injured" while weightlifting. You see it would somehow be embarrassing to everyone if it was found out he was injured weightlifting, so it needs to be hidden. LOL.

[Ericb5]

Listen, I know your job is to report on the Sixers ( as well as Kyle? I believe it was) so you have to be more PC than any of us anonymous posters have to.

But, as a listener to your podcast, and also in this article
http://www.phillyvoice.com/what-has-really-been-going-markelle-fultz-shoulder-injury-broken-jump-shot/
the overwhelming tone I get, without anyone actually coming out and saying "MARKELLE'S injury is TOTAL BS!", is that you have a VERY high level of skepticism pertaining to the validity of this injury.
Perhaps that is more Kyle than you, I don't know.

But if his agent puts out there that he can't raise his arm over his head and then its reported later that during the time of this report he was shooting the entire time, its pretty easy to add things together.

Not to mention he has the same shooting issues now (when he is supposedly healthy ) as he did when he was faux injured.
Anyway just the same, I enjoy listening to your reports and sometimes the Podcast too.
Im guessing this is probably the weirdest situation ever to report on

This idea that the injury is fake because now that it is gone his shooting problems remain is pure ignorance.

Whatever physically happened to him in the summer messed up his shot. Fixing the injury doesn’t automatically fix the shot. A jump shot, much like a golf swing, is something that can go off the rails, and that is clearly what has happened to Fultz. The train is off of the track, and he needs to get it back on the track.

I would have expected it to happen faster than it has, but the difficulty of getting it back on has nothing to do with why it came off in the first place. Since he once shot beautifully I have no doubt that he will again. He has all of the natural physical gifts required for it. It isn’t like he is trying to learn how to shoot the first time. He is trying to get back to how he used to shoot it.

I’m sure that there is a mental component to it too just as there is when a baseball player goes into a slump. It is difficult and frustrating to not be able to do something that you used to be able to do easily. That isn’t the same thing as a mental problem causing the train to derail in the first place.

Baseball players don’t go into slumps for mental reasons, but they prolong them for mental reasons.

He is going to come out of this at some point, and when that happens he should be on the same trajectory that he was when he was drafted. He still represents exactly what we need on this team, and once he gets back to normal I expect that he will provide it.

In 2 years I predict that he will be averaging 20, 5, and 5, and complete a big 3 for us. This will all just be a bad memory.


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Actually what is pure ignorance is believing a report that he cant raise his arm and then finding out he was shooting all during the "cant raise his arm period" and STILL believing the initial report. SMH
You speak about this like its commonplace for a guy to have completely lost his ability to shoot. It's not. It happens like NEVER.
That's why guys like Embiid say "I dont know WHAT is going on with Markelle" and BB said he has "never seen anything like it".
No one knows if Markelle will even play in the NBA at this point...like EVER.. because no one knows what is mentally wrong with him. He's healthy, he's in shape and he can't play on a team that desperately needs his college skill set.
So as many have said before, its all between the ears with him.

Just so we document this for posterity, you don’t believe that shoulder pain ever existed with him, and everyone is lying about it?

He just lost the ability to shoot because of his mental weakness?

Also, where did you have him ranked going into the draft?


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[Ericb5]

Actually what is pure ignorance is believing a report that he cant raise his arm and then finding out he was shooting all during the "cant raise his arm period" and STILL believing the initial report. SMH
You speak about this like its commonplace for a guy to have completely lost his ability to shoot. It's not. It happens like NEVER.
That's why guys like Embiid say "I dont know WHAT is going on with Markelle" and BB said he has "never seen anything like it".
No one knows if Markelle will even play in the NBA at this point...like EVER.. because no one knows what is mentally wrong with him. He's healthy, he's in shape and he can't play on a team that desperately needs his college skill set.
So as many have said before, its all between the ears with him.

Pretty impressive that you are able to take a quote from someone that literally says "I don't know what is going on with Markelle" to mean you know exactly what is going on with the kid. Why not just accept that this is a super complicated situation and you may not have all the answers? The options aren't just (1) "he has a shoulder injury" or (2) "between the ears" (A phrase that you have repeated like 100 times in the last month and it would be lovely if you could switch it up a little bit). There's like 20 potential variables and a bunch of them may be at work (including assuredly a mental component.)

I am in no way claiming I know whats wrong with Markelle. I am in the vast majority(including his coaches and teammates) by saying I have no clue whats wrong with him.
I am just pointing out its not an injury and he's healthy now for months and yet he cant get on the court. Oh that and he seems to have forgotten how to shoot. So reasonable deduction would make that a mental issue (which I am aware is complex).

You are claiming exactly that. You said that it is 100% mental in one breath, and then in the next one you say that you aren’t claiming that you know what is wrong with him.




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