The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part II

[kuclas]

It is not a matter of the nominal position. Its suboptimal to have two players that dont shoot 3s (Simmons) or shouldnt shoot 3s (Embiid). The most you can have is one otherwise you are asking to get exploited.

Embiid can and will make the 10-15 foot jump shoot.

Ben can’t do either.

The issue is Ben doesn’t play the low post well either. He’s a transition guy. Face pace. That’s where he’s at his best.

So Ben is handicapped in the half court. U saw it all day. He would dribble and just stop around the free throw area. That’s where the nets setup their defense of him. They gave him enough space but not a full head of steam and met him right below the elbow near the free throw line. No room for Ben to operate. They knew Ben wasn’t shooting either.

To ben’s credit. I thought he played defense pretty well. Not just the deflections but the man to man on the perimeter. It wasn’t all bad. Just really bad on offense for Ben.

[VDT]

It is not a matter of the nominal position. Its suboptimal to have two players that dont shoot 3s (Simmons) or shouldnt shoot 3s (Embiid). The most you can have is one otherwise you are asking to get exploited.

Embiid can and will make the 10-15 foot jump shoot.

Ben can’t do either.

The issue is Ben doesn’t play the low post well either. He’s a transition guy. Face pace. That’s where he’s at his best.

So Ben is handicapped in the half court. U saw it all day. He would dribble and just stop around the free throw area. That’s where the nets setup their defense of him. They gave him enough space but not a full head of steam and met him right below the elbow near the free throw line. No room for Ben to operate. They knew Ben wasn’t shooting either.

To ben’s credit. I thought he played defense pretty well. Not just the deflections but the man to man on the perimeter. It wasn’t all bad. Just really bad on offense for Ben.

Midrange jumpers dont space the floor and are also among the most inefficient shots. They are an ok choice in limited quantity if you need to carry the offensive load but that's it. There is a reason Embiid stays in the three point line to space the floor for Simmons. Which is terrible for the team because Embiid is the only player with gravity offensively, but there is no easy solution for Brown.

[Bum Adebayo]

It is not a matter of the nominal position. Its suboptimal to have two players that dont shoot 3s (Simmons) or shouldnt shoot 3s (Embiid). The most you can have is one otherwise you are asking to get exploited.

Embiid can and will make the 10-15 foot jump shoot.

Ben can’t do either.

The issue is Ben doesn’t play the low post well either. He’s a transition guy. Face pace. That’s where he’s at his best.

So Ben is handicapped in the half court. U saw it all day. He would dribble and just stop around the free throw area. That’s where the nets setup their defense of him. They gave him enough space but not a full head of steam and met him right below the elbow near the free throw line. No room for Ben to operate. They knew Ben wasn’t shooting either.

To ben’s credit. I thought he played defense pretty well. Not just the deflections but the man to man on the perimeter. It wasn’t all bad. Just really bad on offense for Ben.

Midrange jumpers dont space the floor and are also among the most inefficient shots. They are an ok choice in limited quantity if you need to carry the offensive load but that's it. There is a reason Embiid stays in the three point line to space the floor for Simmons. Which is terrible for the team because Embiid is the only player with gravity offensively, but there is no easy solution for Brown.

So our best player, Embiid, has to be in the perimeter spacing the floor only to accomodate Simmons? this makes no sense, you need to choose, one or another, don't half ass it and try to build around both, it won't work.

[VDT]

Embiid can and will make the 10-15 foot jump shoot.

Ben can’t do either.

The issue is Ben doesn’t play the low post well either. He’s a transition guy. Face pace. That’s where he’s at his best.

So Ben is handicapped in the half court. U saw it all day. He would dribble and just stop around the free throw area. That’s where the nets setup their defense of him. They gave him enough space but not a full head of steam and met him right below the elbow near the free throw line. No room for Ben to operate. They knew Ben wasn’t shooting either.

To ben’s credit. I thought he played defense pretty well. Not just the deflections but the man to man on the perimeter. It wasn’t all bad. Just really bad on offense for Ben.

Midrange jumpers dont space the floor and are also among the most inefficient shots. They are an ok choice in limited quantity if you need to carry the offensive load but that's it. There is a reason Embiid stays in the three point line to space the floor for Simmons. Which is terrible for the team because Embiid is the only player with gravity offensively, but there is no easy solution for Brown.

So our best player, Embiid, has to be in the perimeter spacing the floor only to accomodate Simmons? this makes no sense, you need to choose, one or another, don't half ass it and try to build around both, it won't work.

It is not optimal and to be honest i am surprised that Embiid has accepted basically playing out of position offensively. Still as long as you have Simmons (and TJ) you need to try to find a role for him offensively. But the signs are clear, Simmons is being marginalized more and more offensively by letting Butler handle the ball to the point that i am not sure if he offers enough to justify the spacing issues he creates. Beyond this season the only solution is either a trade or a massive improvement of his shooting neither of which is really in Brown's hands. Also i dont think there is really a choice between Embiid and Simmons. Simmons is not a player to build around if you want to win a title, whereas a healthy Embiid might be.

In retrospect trading for Leonard might have been the best choice to solve these problems.

[kuclas]

It is not a matter of the nominal position. Its suboptimal to have two players that dont shoot 3s (Simmons) or shouldnt shoot 3s (Embiid). The most you can have is one otherwise you are asking to get exploited.

Embiid can and will make the 10-15 foot jump shoot.

Ben can’t do either.

The issue is Ben doesn’t play the low post well either. He’s a transition guy. Face pace. That’s where he’s at his best.

So Ben is handicapped in the half court. U saw it all day. He would dribble and just stop around the free throw area. That’s where the nets setup their defense of him. They gave him enough space but not a full head of steam and met him right below the elbow near the free throw line. No room for Ben to operate. They knew Ben wasn’t shooting either.

To ben’s credit. I thought he played defense pretty well. Not just the deflections but the man to man on the perimeter. It wasn’t all bad. Just really bad on offense for Ben.

Midrange jumpers dont space the floor and are also among the most inefficient shots. They are an ok choice in limited quantity if you need to carry the offensive load but that's it. There is a reason Embiid stays in the three point line to space the floor for Simmons. Which is terrible for the team because Embiid is the only player with gravity offensively, but there is no easy solution for Brown.

The issue is embiid doesn’t shoot the nba average of 36% from 3 point land. Heck. He doesn’t even shoot the break even point of 33-34% (50% equivalent of 2 pointer)

A 10-15 foot jumper is a 50/50 shot for embiid. He can make those vs going 30% all year from 3 (0-5 today).

We’ve gone crazy with 3 point analytics when the 2 pointer from embiid at 10-15 feet is actually the more “efficient shot” for him. But he should only take those shots with 5 seconds left in the shot clock as well.

The deep low post for embiid should always be the firsts option. He will draw fouls or get easy shots.

[3D Chess]

A 10-15 foot jumper is a 50/50 shot for embiid. He can make those vs going 30% all year from 3 (0-5 today).

It's actually a 40% career shot for him (36% this season).

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/embiijo01.html

[PLO]

I didn't see today's game, but it sounds like Simmons was "lets trade him" level of badness. Did he just disappear like he did against the Celtics in the playoffs last season? Or was it just turning the ball over a ton type of insipidness.

[FireMorey]

I didn't see today's game, but it sounds like Simmons was "lets trade him" level of badness. Did he just disappear like he did against the Celtics in the playoffs last season? Or was it just turning the ball over a ton type of insipidness.

Very much like the Celtics series, but he did have bad turnovers. Just looked like he had no desire to impose his will and when he did go up to shoot, he did so very casually and softly. It was an embarrassing performance.

Would consider trading him for AD in the summer assuming we can extend AD.

[the_process]

Some guys are so physically dominant that they can carry an MVP-level scoring load without a jumper.

Giannis is like that. Zion will be like that.

Ben ain't like that. He don't care about carrying a scoring load. He's completely reluctant to be that guy. He's a role player, at heart.

He is also not good enough to do it, he is a terrible FT shooter and his touch around the rim leaves a lot to be desired. He also doesn't have the wingspan Giannis has, nor the insane footwork and burst in tight spaces like Zion. But yeah, against some smaller defenders, he could actually score a lot if he was more assertive, just not consistently against top defenders I think.

ROFl, I have quotes of yours saying that he has improved his FT shooting massively, and his shooting in general. You said that he was going to improve massively this summer, and would be totally improved next season. LMAO at your Dr. Jekkyl and Mr. Hyde act!

I give you Exhibit A:

Not sure if I'd call his game tonight "dominating". Jimmy and Harris carried us this game.

Ben: 18/2/5 (-4)
Jimmy: 22/6/7 (+20)
Harris: 19/7/4 (+19)

Box score stats are misleading, Simmons doesn't care about increasing his stats and does the little things that never show on box score but contribute to winning.

+1 for the stage show, I say!

[kuclas]

I didn't see today's game, but it sounds like Simmons was "lets trade him" level of badness. Did he just disappear like he did against the Celtics in the playoffs last season? Or was it just turning the ball over a ton type of insipidness.

I dunno. Simmons Harris and Reddick all share the bad game trophy today. Reddick was in foul trouble all game and fouled out early. He just looked old and no open shots. Harris is still in his funk that he can’t get out of. Simmons just didn’t seem aggressive on offense. Or maybe Brooklyn game plan just neutered him.

The last chance (not that they would have won) was embiid blocking a shot with sixers down 11 with 4 minutes left. Simmons gets the ball on the fast break...nets defend him. He’s for no where to go around the foul line. Stops. Hesitates. Than freaking throws it right to nets player. Nets start a fast break of their own and mike Scott makes a hard foul on Dudley (which officials reviewed but called a common foul)
Dudley makes both free throws.

That’s just how the game went for Simmons. Got nothing going on offense.

[kuclas]

A 10-15 foot jumper is a 50/50 shot for embiid. He can make those vs going 30% all year from 3 (0-5 today).

It's actually a 40% career shot for him (36% this season).

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/embiijo01.html

Thanks. I’m probably still haboring back to embiid 1st season when he was close to money on those shots (49%? From 16-30 feet step, fake, fake, jumpers). Embiid shooting has gotten worst from the perimeter every year but I guess he makes it up with the fouls he draws closer in.

[peZt]

Yeah sorry but he needs to go. When he is playing bad he's not just playing bad but is a complete liability and is actively hurting the team. His defenders can basically defend two players at the same time by just completely ignoring him until he's in the paint. And he is so easy to figure out for elite teams that he is never not going to not be a liability in the playoffs until he develops a shot and there are absolutely 0 signs that he ever will.
This team would be lightyears better with just an average PG that could shoot and defend a bit, doesn't even need to be a star.

[Tomjas]

Yeah sorry but he needs to go. When he is playing bad he's not just playing bad but is a complete liability and is actively hurting the team. His defenders can basically defend two players at the same time by just completely ignoring him until he's in the paint. And he is so easy to figure out for elite teams that he is never not going to not be a liability in the playoffs until he develops a shot and there are absolutely 0 signs that he ever will.
This team would be lightyears better with just an average PG that could shoot and defend a bit, doesn't even need to be a star.

Name one

[Jstock12]

Yeah sorry but he needs to go. When he is playing bad he's not just playing bad but is a complete liability and is actively hurting the team. His defenders can basically defend two players at the same time by just completely ignoring him until he's in the paint. And he is so easy to figure out for elite teams that he is never not going to not be a liability in the playoffs until he develops a shot and there are absolutely 0 signs that he ever will.
This team would be lightyears better with just an average PG that could shoot and defend a bit, doesn't even need to be a star.

Name one

Ty Lawson

[phillynative]

Where do u stick him at if jimmy will have the ball more this series?

[Negrodamus]

If Joel has some kind of degenerative knee issue like some are speculating, there is no way this team is going to consider moving Simmons.

[Bum Adebayo]

If Joel has some kind of degenerative knee issue like some are speculating, there is no way this team is going to consider moving Simmons.

It depends, if you manage to trade him for another star, then why not? If you can get Zion (I doubt it) or Anthony Davis for him, I do it in a heartbeat.

[Negrodamus]

If Joel has some kind of degenerative knee issue like some are speculating, there is no way this team is going to consider moving Simmons.

It depends, if you manage to trade him for another star, then why not? If you can get Zion (I doubt it) or Anthony Davis for him, I do it in a heartbeat.

Because the Pelicans are going to have the same evaluation of Ben that we’re all having. It would have to be Ben + valuable asset(s).

[Kobblehead]

Where do u stick him at if jimmy will have the ball more this series?

He has no spot.

You can't have a guy on the ball that can't score from multiple levels so he's a waste as a PG.

His best theoretical position would be small ball 5 but he doesn't have the length to be that.

[VDT]

If the team feels confident with Embiid's health i think they will try to trade Simmons within the next year.

They play Embiid out of position to accommodate Simmons but that is not sustainable long term, particularly if the team doesnt play well in these playoffs. In the end the issue is that Simmons doesnt have a position offensively especially in a team with Embiid.