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Welcome Shake Milton

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Re: Welcome Shake Milton 

Post#421 » by Eyeamok » Wed Aug 18, 2021 2:21 pm

Joe is not better. But Shake gets in his own head. Asking him to do less (ball handling, creating for others) and more just catch and shoot is the answer to his woes.
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Re: Welcome Shake Milton 

Post#422 » by DCasey91 » Wed Aug 18, 2021 2:23 pm

Shake’s best role is Maxey’s best role

You get the ball your 1a/1b is scoring that’s it. Both function the best as that.

If Harris, Embiid and Ben is on the court both Maxey/Milton and their roles aren’t clearly defined and both can get lost trying to be something that they aren’t or aren’t suited for and get moved down the pecking order.

We do have a big tendency to mismanage or misutilize players.

I’d rather trade Korkmaz than Milton everyday of the week.

Joe is for the Korkmaz role.

Shake or Maxey can be our 6th man lighter. Both were X factors in winning games against the Hawks which is both good for them (even though inconsistent mins because Doc is a below average coach relative to talent at ones disposal.)

But sad for more senior players let’s be honest here.

Shake is on a great great contract we should think twice before moving it.

Let’s say Maxey gets moved or Springer along with Ben which would suck then Milton once again becomes the defacto sixth man like last season’s past.
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Re: Welcome Shake Milton 

Post#423 » by Eyeamok » Wed Aug 18, 2021 2:48 pm

DCasey91 wrote:Shake’s best role is Maxey’s best role



Honestly I don't recall ever seeing another play grow so quickly as Maxey has. Maxey has already taken Shake's lunch money once in the regular season. Now with a full training camp behind him and his work ethic, his ability to add things to his game it's not even close. I don't think we truly know what Maxey can be. But Shake and Maxey don't share the same space. Shake is behind him. And this is coming from someone that has been on the Shake bandwagon for a while now. Shake's major problems seem to be between his ears it limits him. Maxey just seems to believe he can get better and better.

Even though I believe Shake is better than Joe right now. Those 2 should shoot it out for 6th man on this team. But neither one of them plays a better role than Maxey. Shoot Maxey's absence already cost this team a summer league championship. :lol:
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Re: Welcome Shake Milton 

Post#424 » by Mik317 » Wed Aug 18, 2021 2:52 pm

Shake needs to become a better and more willing shooter.

like half the damn roster lol
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Re: Welcome Shake Milton 

Post#425 » by DCasey91 » Wed Aug 18, 2021 2:58 pm

Yeah I’m just comparing the actual role not what the pecking order of that role is.

Both are scorers, both need to be on the ball to be at their best.

Senior players take priority which devalues what they are most suited for. Both can be inconsistent, one too young and the other can sulk when put into a corner.

Once again I’d rather trade Korkmaz as collateral then Milton without a second thought. Joe is really Korkmaz’s replacement. Green there and Thybulle for defense.

Best case scenario is Curry is our 6th man, Maxey gets the starting gig, and Milton can work in tandem with either or.

We aren’t going to outshoot teams to death. It’s going to be bludgeon style volume scoring with Embiid with elite team defense and some lighter fluid scoring from whichever small guard is cooking that night, and one elite shooter in Seth.

Shake was still our best offensive threat coming off the bench all year long. 13/3/2 are solid numbers and on that contract it’s a bargain.

Doc really should implement not hockey style changes but quick singular moves especially when there’s zero scoring going on when Embiid sits. Rapid one rotations.

First one to catch fire doesn’t matter who it is ride that until the wheels fall off. Allows Embiid to rest.

Look Korkmaz, Milton and Maxey have been on fire for quarters at a time, heck even Ben pre halftime can look unbelievable.

But it’s random when it happens. Doc still hasn’t realized that we are dysfunctional so having pre conceived notions about playing time per player just doesn’t cut it at all, Brown had that problem too.

I’m talking Ben doesn’t play in the 4th but is by far our best and most impactful player for the first three quarters.

Or running a midget squad

Or Embiid sitting for 8 minutes in the first

Etc etc

Having an anemic at best halfcourt offense with a slow and stubborn coach is a bad recipe. That’s why I still like Milton on this team. You never know when you’ll need 20 points very quickly to save or win a game, and at least there’s a chance with him.

I’m still gutted when neopotism was on full bore in game 7 do or die

Our best unit was in, running it up to be 2 points ahead with 7 mins to go. Shake was was finally used after the half.... then all of a sudden he gets put on the bench again and Doc sends in Curry.

Not an energy specialist by any means but the whole dynamic changed. Doc had another opportunity later on with Ben getting out on the bench.

That’s called having small gonads lol.

I still don’t think Benches are being fully optimized or used to its full extent.

I hazard to guess it’s stigma more than anything else.

Having 3 bench players that are essentially starter level players is like vs not 5 but 8 players in the one go.
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Re: Welcome Shake Milton 

Post#426 » by blargh » Wed Aug 18, 2021 4:55 pm

Eyeamok wrote:Joe is not better. But Shake gets in his own head. Asking him to do less (ball handling, creating for others) and more just catch and shoot is the answer to his woes.

If you’re just viewing them as catch and shoot guys:

- joe is a better defender
- joe has more range
- joe has a quicker release
- joe is less hesitant to shoot
- they are about equal in terms of passing out of the closeout
- Shake might be a little better at attacking the rim out of the closeout.

I think Joe clearly takes his minutes in that situation. But if you find a role for Shake where he is asked to do some PNR, and some off-dribble creation: those are things that he brings where Joe is weaker
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Re: Welcome Shake Milton 

Post#427 » by 76ciology » Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:31 am

Can we get a future first rounder for Milton then let Isaiah Joe slide into Milton’s role? We’d then have Maxey and Joe play off the bench while having a first rounder to our modest box of assets?
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Re: Welcome Shake Milton 

Post#428 » by DCasey91 » Thu Aug 26, 2021 11:07 am

I’d rather Korkmaz go for whatever. Joe will take Korkmaz’s role eventually.

I want Simons lol would give up Milton for him in a microsecond.
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Re: Welcome Shake Milton 

Post#429 » by the_process » Thu Aug 26, 2021 11:23 am

Milton would appear to be the odd man out here after the Ben situation is resolved.
It is highly unlikely that the Sixers will agree with your Ben Simmons evaluation for the purposes of a trade.
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Re: Welcome Shake Milton 

Post#430 » by TTP » Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:15 pm

the_process wrote:Milton would appear to be the odd man out here after the Ben situation is resolved.


Depends how it "shakes" out I think. If we lose Maxey and Ben in a deal, Shake could end up being the backup PG again.

There's also still a chance he ends up in the rotation with the current roster, though he might be on the outside looking in at the moment. The way I see it, we have 13 guys potentially worthy of minutes with 10 rotation spots. Safe to say the 5 starters are locks and Thybulle is probably a lock too. I'm reluctant to call anyone else a lock for minutes yet just because the competition is pretty decent and we'll have preseason games to continue to evaluate.

So 7 guys competing for 4 spots, one of which has to be a backup center and another of which has to be either Maxey or Milton as backup PG.

Maxey
Milton
Korkmaz
Joe
Niang
Reed
Drummond

Joe is probably the least likely of the group to get minutes, but it's hard to say exactly how things are going to play out. Shake has been in and out of Doc's favor. We know that he's been high on Shake in the past and he even turned to him in game 7. Even if Maxey earns a large role, Shake could still potentially take minutes from Korkmaz or Niang.

I'm curious how things play out in preseason though. We're in the fortunate situation of having a lot of young guys that will likely be pushing for bigger roles, so we have a lot of different options based on matchups, and can go in multiple directions when people aren't playing well or are injured.
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Re: Welcome Shake Milton 

Post#431 » by ankle420breaker » Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:17 pm

Huge offseason for Shake. Thick competitive atmosphere with him, Maxey, Korkmaz, and Joe all hungry for minutes.

A lot of his shortcomings are mentality related. His decision making and overall consistency as a scorer need to significantly improve for him to carve out a role with any kind of steadiness.

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Re: Welcome Shake Milton 

Post#432 » by FlyingArrow » Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:19 pm

TTP wrote:Maxey
Milton
Korkmaz
Joe
Niang
Reed
Drummond


9 guys.

Jaden Springer is less likely to crack the rotation, but he has a chance.

Charles Bassey (if signed) is also less likely to crack the rotation, but there could be room for him, especially if Niang and Reed play at the 4. On top of that, Drummond's play would have regress at an alarming rate for there to be room for Bassey in the rotation.
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Re: Welcome Shake Milton 

Post#433 » by the_process » Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:38 pm

TTP wrote:
the_process wrote:Milton would appear to be the odd man out here after the Ben situation is resolved.


Depends how it "shakes" out I think. If we lose Maxey and Ben in a deal, Shake could end up being the backup PG again.

There's also still a chance he ends up in the rotation with the current roster, though he might be on the outside looking in at the moment. The way I see it, we have 13 guys potentially worthy of minutes with 10 rotation spots. Safe to say the 5 starters are locks and Thybulle is probably a lock too. I'm reluctant to call anyone else a lock for minutes yet just because the competition is pretty decent and we'll have preseason games to continue to evaluate.

So 7 guys competing for 4 spots, one of which has to be a backup center and another of which has to be either Maxey or Milton as backup PG.

Maxey
Milton
Korkmaz
Joe
Niang
Reed
Drummond

Joe is probably the least likely of the group to get minutes, but it's hard to say exactly how things are going to play out. Shake has been in and out of Doc's favor. We know that he's been high on Shake in the past and he even turned to him in game 7. Even if Maxey earns a large role, Shake could still potentially take minutes from Korkmaz or Niang.

I'm curious how things play out in preseason though. We're in the fortunate situation of having a lot of young guys that will likely be pushing for bigger roles, so we have a lot of different options based on matchups, and can go in multiple directions when people aren't playing well or are injured.


Agreed that if they move Ben plus in a consolidation deal that there could still be a place for Shake.

I just see it much more likely that they have to break Ben into multiple pieces. In which case the roster crunch likely leaves Milton as the odd man out.
It is highly unlikely that the Sixers will agree with your Ben Simmons evaluation for the purposes of a trade.
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Re: Welcome Shake Milton 

Post#434 » by 76ciology » Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:06 pm

Pts per 36

20.++
Shake
Wiggins
Donatas Sabonis
Norman Powell

Conley 19.9
Jrue 19.7
Cp3 18.8 (similar with Maxey)

Dejounte Murray 17.7
Trent Jr 17.7
Reggie Jackson 16.7

Shake relatively did well as our 6th man scorer last season
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Re: Welcome Shake Milton 

Post#435 » by Embiid P » Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:14 pm

I think the time to trade Shake is now while he has some value either as part of a bigger deal or by himself. Assuming Maxey isn't traded, takes the next step and becomes our sixth man/instant offense like we all hope he will, it will decrease Shake's minutes thus decreasing his value. I don't see them playing together for long stretches either as both are most effective when the ball is in their hands.
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Re: Welcome Shake Milton 

Post#436 » by stormi » Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:20 pm

I think Shake is sort of underrated, and on a top five contract in the league value wise. His production has steadily gone up year by year, although he was really bad in the second half of last season.

He had an underrated Markelle Fultz type development with his shooting stroke from year 2 to 3, but he was arguably our best player in that sweep against Boston and was shooting 6 three's a game at like a 40% clip. He needs to get back to that. He's tall, and lengthy and is a decent finisher around the rim. He needs to be more Haliburton and less Fox. More direct with the ball in his hands. I'd like to see him be more fearless from three next season.
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Re: Welcome Shake Milton 

Post#437 » by TTP » Thu Aug 26, 2021 11:26 pm

FlyingArrow wrote:
TTP wrote:Maxey
Milton
Korkmaz
Joe
Niang
Reed
Drummond


9 guys.

Jaden Springer is less likely to crack the rotation, but he has a chance.

Charles Bassey (if signed) is also less likely to crack the rotation, but there could be room for him, especially if Niang and Reed play at the 4. On top of that, Drummond's play would have regress at an alarming rate for there to be room for Bassey in the rotation.


They have a chance in the sense that Morey has had the mentality in the past where the best players will play regardless of draft position and prospect pedigree (Chandler Parsons comes to mind).

However, I don't think Springer or Bassey have any real chance at being in the rotation on opening night - there's just too much better competition in front of them. The team is already going to be struggling to find ways to get minutes to guys that deserve them.

Springer looked way behind Reed and Joe in Summer League, and even those guys are facing an uphill battle. Bassey hasn't even signed a contract yet and I can't imagine he's getting minutes over Drummond or Reed anytime soon.

I don't see Springer getting minutes as a defensive specialist either when the team is going to just prefer to run a unit like Simmons/Green/Thybulle/Harris/Embiid instead.
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Re: Welcome Shake Milton 

Post#438 » by FlyingArrow » Thu Aug 26, 2021 11:44 pm

TTP wrote:
FlyingArrow wrote:
TTP wrote:Maxey
Milton
Korkmaz
Joe
Niang
Reed
Drummond


9 guys.

Jaden Springer is less likely to crack the rotation, but he has a chance.

Charles Bassey (if signed) is also less likely to crack the rotation, but there could be room for him, especially if Niang and Reed play at the 4. On top of that, Drummond's play would have regress at an alarming rate for there to be room for Bassey in the rotation.


They have a chance in the sense that Morey has had the mentality in the past where the best players will play regardless of draft position and prospect pedigree (Chandler Parsons comes to mind).

However, I don't think Springer or Bassey have any real chance at being in the rotation on opening night - there's just too much better competition in front of them. The team is already going to be struggling to find ways to get minutes to guys that deserve them.

Springer looked way behind Reed and Joe in Summer League, and even those guys are facing an uphill battle. Bassey hasn't even signed a contract yet and I can't imagine he's getting minutes over Drummond or Reed anytime soon.

I don't see Springer getting minutes as a defensive specialist either when the team is going to just prefer to run a unit like Simmons/Green/Thybulle/Harris/Embiid instead.


Oh yeah, definitely not on opening night. They're unlikely to crack the rotation at all. If they do, midseason at the earliest.
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Re: Welcome Shake Milton 

Post#439 » by Kobblehead » Thu Aug 26, 2021 11:44 pm

Feels like Doc is not a fan. Played him just 10 minutes a game in the playoffs despite being our 6th highest mpg guy during the regular season.
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Re: Welcome Shake Milton 

Post#440 » by TTP » Fri Aug 27, 2021 12:06 am

stormi wrote:I think Shake is sort of underrated, and on a top five contract in the league value wise. His production has steadily gone up year by year, although he was really bad in the second half of last season.

He had an underrated Markelle Fultz type development with his shooting stroke from year 2 to 3, but he was arguably our best player in that sweep against Boston and was shooting 6 three's a game at like a 40% clip. He needs to get back to that. He's tall, and lengthy and is a decent finisher around the rim. He needs to be more Haliburton and less Fox. More direct with the ball in his hands. I'd like to see him be more fearless from three next season.


I'm not sure that Shake will be a 40%+ 3 point shooter but I'm pretty confident he's better than the 35% from 3 he shot last year. He actually shot better from mid-range and the line last year and has a strong track record back to college.

He did pretty well overall considering his lack of NBA experience and the massive increase in responsibility from year 2 to year 3. 55% TS on 25% USG is pretty solid overall, though he was at his best at the start of the year and finished the season poorly.

He has to keep working on his handle and on his defense. He has to get more value out of that wingspan. He also needs to keep his head up when he drives into traffic.

Even if you scale back his responsibility as Maxey takes over, Shake can still be useful. He can play in an off-ball role next to either Maxey or Simmons, or he can play in a more ball dominant role in the half court while Maxey is on the bench.
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