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2018-2019 College Basketball / '19 NBA Draft Thread

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Re: 2018-2019 College Basketball / '19 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1921 » by Negrodamus » Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:29 pm

I can't even conceptualize what Grant Williams will be on an NBA offense. Is he going to be 6'6 and posting guys up?
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Re: 2018-2019 College Basketball / '19 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1922 » by Kolkmania » Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:34 pm

Prospects need to meet a certain threshold of strength, length and athleticism to survive in the NBA. However, I strongly believe that skill and BBIQ are at least as important in the most crucial phases of the season.
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Re: 2018-2019 College Basketball / '19 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1923 » by Kolkmania » Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:43 pm

Negrodamus wrote:I can't even conceptualize what Grant Williams will be on an NBA offense. Is he going to be 6'6 and posting guys up?


That's basically what Jimmy Butler did at Marquette. Restrictions due to a role can hide certain weaknesses, but there are also examples who were capable of much more and expanded their games in the NBA.

Williams showed potential as a passer, has touch around the rim and most importantly shows signs of efficient shooting off the dribble. Those are key indicators for me.

I can understand people who do not share this opinion because he has barely showed any offense that's translatable for a NBA wing, but I personally am willing to bet on it.
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Re: 2018-2019 College Basketball / '19 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1924 » by LloydFree » Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:02 pm

Negrodamus wrote:I can't even conceptualize what Grant Williams will be on an NBA offense. Is he going to be 6'6 and posting guys up?

You can't conceptualize it, because he's won't be anything. He won't post up anybody. He won't be able to dribble past anybody and he won't stretch the floor. And he won't be able to guard anybody unless NBA offense suddenly turns back the clock to the late '90s. The team that drafts him is drafting a practice dummy. A tough guy with character, but very little ability.

My fear is that he very well could be drafted by the 76ers. From what I've observed over the years, from GMs that were very good ex-players, they lean towards perceived tough guys over talented guys.
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Re: 2018-2019 College Basketball / '19 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1925 » by Fischella » Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:44 pm

Negrodamus wrote:I can't even conceptualize what Grant Williams will be on an NBA offense. Is he going to be 6'6 and posting guys up?

He is 6-7

He is going to be a capable shooter, he hits really tough attempts, has obvious touch and has improved as a shooter year by year, that FT% improvement is no fluke, he won't be a pull-up 3pt shooting demon, but he is easily going to be able to space the floor to a degree, and he would be great in terms of decision making on a short roll
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Re: 2018-2019 College Basketball / '19 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1926 » by Sixerscan » Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:45 pm

LloydFree wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:I can't even conceptualize what Grant Williams will be on an NBA offense. Is he going to be 6'6 and posting guys up?

You can't conceptualize it, because he's won't be anything. He won't post up anybody. He won't be able to dribble past anybody and he won't stretch the floor. And he won't be able to guard anybody unless NBA offense suddenly turns back the clock to the late '90s. The team that drafts him is drafting a practice dummy. A tough guy with character, but very little ability.

My fear is that he very well could be drafted by the 76ers. From what I've observed over the years, from GMs that were very good ex-players, they lean towards perceived tough guys over talented guys.


Who do you have in mind here as an ex player? Like you can say a lot about Vlade but that doesn’t seem to apply. Same thing with Ainge. Not sure who else would count there.
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Re: 2018-2019 College Basketball / '19 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1927 » by skulky » Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:46 pm

I don’t like Grant Williams at 24 but if he falls to 33/34 I think he’s worth a shot.
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Re: 2018-2019 College Basketball / '19 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1928 » by Fischella » Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:50 pm

The 76ers would do great if they draft Grant at 24th, easily best player available most likely (unless somebody really slips) and he reinforces the team's identity, smart, tough, big, strong and physical, being a menace
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Re: 2018-2019 College Basketball / '19 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1929 » by LloydFree » Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:01 pm

Sixerscan wrote:
LloydFree wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:I can't even conceptualize what Grant Williams will be on an NBA offense. Is he going to be 6'6 and posting guys up?

You can't conceptualize it, because he's won't be anything. He won't post up anybody. He won't be able to dribble past anybody and he won't stretch the floor. And he won't be able to guard anybody unless NBA offense suddenly turns back the clock to the late '90s. The team that drafts him is drafting a practice dummy. A tough guy with character, but very little ability.

My fear is that he very well could be drafted by the 76ers. From what I've observed over the years, from GMs that were very good ex-players, they lean towards perceived tough guys over talented guys.


Who do you have in mind here as an ex player? Like you can say a lot about Vlade but that doesn’t seem to apply. Same thing with Ainge. Not sure who else would count there.

Ainge, Dumars, Isaiah Thomas, Jim Paxon are the ones that come to mind.
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Re: 2018-2019 College Basketball / '19 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1930 » by Fischella » Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:19 pm

Ainge, Dumars, Thomas were all really good drafters
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Re: 2018-2019 College Basketball / '19 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1931 » by Negrodamus » Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:59 pm

I'd be willing to let some other team figure out how to use Grant. Historically, the NBA hasn't been too friendly to that archetype of player.
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Re: 2018-2019 College Basketball / '19 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1932 » by Mik317 » Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:18 pm

also we really don't need another forward that probably is best as a small ball 5.

'We need guards and centers. Ones that can spot up and defend.
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Re: 2018-2019 College Basketball / '19 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1933 » by Black Mage » Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:13 pm

Kolkmania wrote:
Black Mage wrote:Sixers Draft Scouting Report

Appreciate the effort. Evaluating/trying to guess someone's shooting development is in so many cases the determining factor.
In my case I'm willing to bet on Grant's shot and am nowhere near as confident on Kabengele's shot.

I do think that we need to try to find the best player at #24 instead of looking at our current roster deficiencies. Rookie centers do not hold up in the NBA PO unless they're elite talents or have incredible IQ.


I can appreciate differing opinions, but I am not sure you've fully looked into Williams shooting numbers compared to Kabengele.

For their college careers:

Williams: 53% EFG - 59.1 TS - 75.6 FT - 54 2PT - 29 3PT

Kabengele: 53.2 EFG - 58 TS - 72.4 FT - 52.6 2PT - 37.4 3PT

I will acknowledge that Williams out to 17 feet is the better shooter of the two, but the value of Kabengele is he extends not just to college 3 but to NBA range 3. Plus, I don't know how you can watch the videos and watch Kabengele making threes effortlessly while catching on the move and pulling up and not see his shot growing and translating. Kabengele doesn't show any of the warning signs of a guy whose shot won't translate. He doesnt nervously shuffle his feet, he doesn't need to be set, he doesn't need time to measure up the shot. He catches and fires at 6'10". Just my thoughts.

Williams' shooting ability is essentially what we all wish Simmons would be able to do. This again begs the question, if Williams can't shoot the 3 and is best at the post out to 15 or so feet where does that fit on this team with Simmons and Embiid? You can't ignore fit when your two studs need a certain area of real estate on the court to maximize their immense talents.
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Re: 2018-2019 College Basketball / '19 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1934 » by Kolkmania » Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:43 pm

Mik317 wrote:also we really don't need another forward that probably is best as a small ball 5.

'We need guards and centers. Ones that can spot up and defend.


I think we need good basketball players above all. I don't have the illusion that our 2nd rounders or even the 24st pick will contribute in the PO next year and who knows what our roster looks like in the summer of 2020?

That doesn't mean I do not care about fit, just that we shouldn't disregard big wings because we have Simmons and Harris.
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Re: 2018-2019 College Basketball / '19 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1935 » by Kolkmania » Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:55 pm

Black Mage wrote:
Kolkmania wrote:
Black Mage wrote:Sixers Draft Scouting Report

Appreciate the effort. Evaluating/trying to guess someone's shooting development is in so many cases the determining factor.
In my case I'm willing to bet on Grant's shot and am nowhere near as confident on Kabengele's shot.

I do think that we need to try to find the best player at #24 instead of looking at our current roster deficiencies. Rookie centers do not hold up in the NBA PO unless they're elite talents or have incredible IQ.


I can appreciate differing opinions, but I am not sure you've fully looked into Williams shooting numbers compared to Kabengele.

For their college careers:

Williams: 53% EFG - 59.1 TS - 75.6 FT - 54 2PT - 29 3PT

Kabengele: 53.2 EFG - 58 TS - 72.4 FT - 52.6 2PT - 37.4 3PT

I will acknowledge that Williams out to 17 feet is the better shooter of the two, but the value of Kabengele is he extends not just to college 3 but to NBA range 3. Plus, I don't know how you can watch the videos and watch Kabengele making threes effortlessly while catching on the move and pulling up and not see his shot growing and translating. Kabengele doesn't show any of the warning signs of a guy whose shot won't translate. He doesnt nervously shuffle his feet, he doesn't need to be set, he doesn't need time to measure up the shot. He catches and fires at 6'10". Just my thoughts.

Williams' shooting ability is essentially what we all wish Simmons would be able to do. This again begs the question, if Williams can't shoot the 3 and is best at the post out to 15 or so feet where does that fit on this team with Simmons and Embiid? You can't ignore fit when your two studs need a certain area of real estate on the court to maximize their immense talents.


I've looked at their numbers, but also I know that these college samples can be very misleading. De'Aaron Fox was statistically one of the worst shooting guards in the history of college and Josh Jackson shot above average from three (even better than Kabengele and higher volume). At the time I also said that I'm more comfortable with betting on Fox's shot than Jackson's.

Don't get me wrong, I could very well be wrong in this case, but there are more factors than FT% and 3PT% in a shot's projection. Kabengele shot a fantastic 37.4% from three and dunked nearly every ball he got near the rim. Yet he shot a lower TS% and eFG% than Grant Williams. I think his willingness and relative fluidity is hopeful, but I also see a lot of inconsistency in his footwork, release and a lack of diversity.

I think there's a chance that both will shoot reasonably in the NBA. I'm just more willing to bet on Williams. One reason is that I'm a bit worried that Kabengele won't stick in the NBA (knees concern me, but more importantly his decision making, both offensively and defensively).

And I would indeed wish that Simmons could shoot 84% from the line, hit contested midrange jumpers off the dribble and force closeouts on pick and pops. Would make him an instant top 5 player in the NBA
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Re: 2018-2019 College Basketball / '19 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1936 » by Kolkmania » Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:00 pm

Negrodamus wrote:I'd be willing to let some other team figure out how to use Grant. Historically, the NBA hasn't been too friendly to that archetype of player.


Honest question, since no examples pop up in my head. Which players "busted" in the modern NBA who fit the archetype?
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Re: 2018-2019 College Basketball / '19 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1937 » by Negrodamus » Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:13 pm

Kolkmania wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:I'd be willing to let some other team figure out how to use Grant. Historically, the NBA hasn't been too friendly to that archetype of player.


Honest question, since no examples pop up in my head. Which players "busted" in the modern NBA who fit the archetype?


I don't know, Sean May, DeJuan Blair... I know I'll get someone to nitpick Grant Williams as he compares to those two, but it's an undersized PF who was hugely prolific in college. I can probably spend some time looking for more, but it's more of the absence of one in the NBA that should be more telling.

Also, to be clear, I'm not calling Grant Williams a bust at the end of the first round. I think he'll do great overseas/G-League.
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Re: 2018-2019 College Basketball / '19 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1938 » by LloydFree » Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:41 pm

Negrodamus wrote:
Kolkmania wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:I'd be willing to let some other team figure out how to use Grant. Historically, the NBA hasn't been too friendly to that archetype of player.


Honest question, since no examples pop up in my head. Which players "busted" in the modern NBA who fit the archetype?


I don't know, Sean May, DeJuan Blair... I know I'll get someone to nitpick Grant Williams as he compares to those two, but it's an undersized PF who was hugely prolific in college. I can probably spend some time looking for more, but it's more of the absence of one in the NBA that should be more telling.

Also, to be clear, I'm not calling Grant Williams a bust at the end of the first round. I think he'll do great overseas/G-League.

DeJuan Blair! That's a sharp comp! I was all ready to say, "... but Blair wasn't a bust"... Then I realized... Blair had a 7'2 wingspan, not 6'9.
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Re: 2018-2019 College Basketball / '19 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1939 » by Mik317 » Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:50 pm

Kolkmania wrote:
Mik317 wrote:also we really don't need another forward that probably is best as a small ball 5.

'We need guards and centers. Ones that can spot up and defend.


I think we need good basketball players above all. I don't have the illusion that our 2nd rounders or even the 24st pick will contribute in the PO next year and who knows what our roster looks like in the summer of 2020?

That doesn't mean I do not care about fit, just that we shouldn't disregard big wings because we have Simmons and Harris.

yes but also no.

Fit didn't matter during the process years because we were still searching for our core. Chances are we are going to pretty much bring back the whole starting five and Zhaire and maybe Bolden. That means hitting on one or two of these last rounders is going to be big and part of that is having dudes who can come in and play multiple roles with multiple lineups as our starters will probably miss games here and there prior to the playoffs...so taking a dude who can probably only play power forward and isn't the best floor spacer is simply a poor use of the dwindling assets we have. we saw that first hand this playoff via not having a ready big or a ready PG off the pine because we were carrying 50000 big slow centers lol.

I don't see it in Grant at all but even if I did, I think his best chance to blossom is on a team with a stretch big and no real post power forward. Maybe down the line he will slim up and stretch his game but he won't do it here with our already clogged lane.

Bottom line anyone we draft, regardless of if they will be ready day 1 (again w/ the hopeful better approach , it will mean JJ, Joel, and Jimmy will get days off; so peeps will get time), should be able to stretch the floor and switch on defense. Grant Williams doesn't project to be that to me. I will give him this...he is a bit younger than I thought so it is possible there is some upside there

I know its super late and it is a toss up but this is where the big boys do their best work...and if we want to be that we need to do so. More than likely after bringing it back , we will not have much to work w/ FA wise...so these picks will probably make up 1-2 spots off our bench and after a year of whining about that...we better not be hoping on the buy out market come the deadline this year. Basically Elton should be able to find Better James Ennis, Better Mike Scott, and a goddam back up center that won't die during the playoffs with these picks....its not about star hunting here.
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Re: 2018-2019 College Basketball / '19 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1940 » by LloydFree » Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:15 pm

76ers better be in the mix for my guy, if Kabengele is off the board.

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Fischella wrote:I think none of you guys that are pro-Embiid no how basketball works today.. is way easier to win it all with Omer Asik than Olajuwon.
Actually if you ask me which Center I want for my perfect championship caliber team, I will chose Asik hands down

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