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Sixerscan wrote:Yeahhh I don’t think we’re gonna see eye to eye here..... Speaking of guys that haven’t shown they can provide value playing on a top team with other scorers....

I'm talking about skillsets, though.

Kobblehead wrote:

Sixerscan wrote:Yeahhh I don’t think we’re gonna see eye to eye here..... Speaking of guys that haven’t shown they can provide value playing on a top team with other scorers....

I'm talking about skillsets, though.

Walker runs more isolation and pick and roll than practically anyone in basketball. Is he good playing off the ball or are we assuming? He’s certainly not the screener or offensive rebounder Butler is.

And then there’s defense. And that this is all theoretical since Kemba has never actually done it in the playoffs.

You’re super focused on this one skill. I respect that it’s important but disagree that’s all we need to worry about. Like I said, don’t think we will see eye to eye.

Kobblehead wrote:The Rockets are a desperate and crazy team. They also brought in Melo last summer and willingly locked into an albatross deal with Chris Paul. Having the champs on the ropes and letting them recover can cause a team to do irrational things.

Am I supposed to throw away all my logic and reverse my stance on Butler because some team that already jumped the shark has shown interest in him?

Nope. I think Morey has it right, go get the most efficient players he can find, normally those would be 3pt shooters but that isn't always the case. This will be at least the 2nd year in a row Morey has gone after Butler.

On CP3, I'm thinking Morey already knows he isn't keeping him his entire contract and already has a plan to dump him, the question is when and the price. He took a shot with CP3 and had he not got hurt they may have been champs last year, this year they had their chance and couldn't do it, but Houston having a chance against the most talented NBA team possibly ever is pretty damn solid

Yeah, offense and defense both matters, you need to find a player that does both things.

I'm assuming he'd be great off the ball while playing with other scorers because that's what his skillset suggests.

If Steph Curry, Dame Lillard, Kyrie Irving, C.J. McCollum can all thrive on a contender with other scorers, I think it's safe bet that Kemba would.

And Trae Young
And Collin Sexton
And Ja Morant
And Darius Garland

..all eventually.

Any dynamic multilevel scoring talent that enters the league.

Sixerscan wrote:And then there’s defense.

Jimmy being a good defender is an added luxury, but that doesn't make him a desirable star on a contender, in my eyes. That just means he's less repulsive than a DeMar Derozan or Corey Maggette.

I just don't think you can project his skillset into meshing with other scorers on a superteam capable of contending for a title.

Being a good defender is just an added bonus, on the other hand being a good offensive player is goddammn necessary can't live without it. And even then, not only it has to be a good offensive player, it has to fit the modern NBA style of offense.

Kobblehead wrote:

Sixerscan wrote:And then there’s defense.

Jimmy being a good defender is an added luxury, but that doesn't make him a desirable star on a contender, in my eyes. That just means he's less repulsive than a DeMar Derozan or Corey Maggette.

I just don't think you can project his skillset into meshing with other scorers on a superteam capable of contending for a title.

Yeah I don’t agree with you here.

Funny, no one was saying we shouldn't resign Jimmy after he put the team on his back against the Raptors. One week later and it seems we've all forgotten that without him in that series we would have been swept. Give him the max.

I think Kobble’s point is Butler is not effective off the ball and needs the ball on his hands to be effective, unlike Kemba. Playing with a super team, you need to have multiple guys who can gravity to pull away the defense from other stars.

I dont know man.. but i think that guy is not Butler but it’s Ben.

My thoughts on Butler being a superteam undesirable exist in a vacuum, but they're cemented even further when considering our #1 option is an isolation, post scorer like Joel Embiid.

You have to flank Joel Embiid with multilevel scorers that can space off the ball. It makes no sense to surround him with Jimmy Butler and Ben Simmons.

SG sized players:
- James Harden
- Klay Thompson
- Bradley Beal
- Jamal Murray
- Devin Booker
- Zach Lavine
- D'Angelo Russell


Forward sized players:
- Kevin Durant
- Kawhi Leonard
- Paul George
- Khris Middleton
- Tobias Harris
- Luka Doncic
- Jayson Tatum

76ciology wrote:I think Kobble’s point is Butler is not effective off the ball and needs the ball on his hands to be effective, unlike Kemba. Playing with a super team, you need to have multiple guys who can gravity to pull away the defense from other stars.

I dont know man.. but i think that guy is not Butler but it’s Ben.

I get his point I just think it’s wrong. They had no issue being very successful with Embiid and Butler on the court despite Embiid clearly not being 100% during much of the playoffs. The problems came when they weren’t on the court. If this sort of thing was as dogmatic and obvious as he seems to think that wouldn’t be the case.

I’d much rather have Butler over a guy like Walker who (in addition to showing little actual interest in playing off ball) is a defensive zero, isn’t the same physical force and has the body type that tends to get beat up over a long playoff run.

yeah Jimmy's unwillingness to take off the catch 3s sucks but I'm not sure Kemba would be much better in that role either. Jimmy's size also allows JJ to stay on the floor because he is often the worst defender and most of the time you can hide him on stationary guys like Harris and Green....with Kemba you can't. JJ's defense wasn't as exposed during the playoffs this year because he was often on the floor w/ 4 other solid-great defenders and not Marco.

Like I get the premise behind not wanting to sign Jimmy but I don't think fit is at the top of the list. Age, Durability, and his ego all come before his fit. His PNR game is something the team lacks and it comes w/o sacrificing defense. Love Kemba...but at best his addition is probably a wash between the two because of that. You bring in Kemba then JJ also has to go because that backcourt probably wouldn't work in the playoffs IMO.

also are we even sure Kemba is leaving? I mean he should but if Charlotte comes w/ the max, why would he?

It would be absolutely laughable to replace Jimmy with Kemba. He's not neutral on defense. He's a huge NEGATIVE on defense.

Not to mention we'd have to renounce the rights to everyone else to make this happen...I've seen it all.

Sixerscan wrote:

76ciology wrote:I think Kobble’s point is Butler is not effective off the ball and needs the ball on his hands to be effective, unlike Kemba. Playing with a super team, you need to have multiple guys who can gravity to pull away the defense from other stars.

I dont know man.. but i think that guy is not Butler but it’s Ben.

I get his point I just think it’s wrong. They had no issue being very successful with Embiid and Butler on the court despite Embiid clearly not being 100% during much of the playoffs. The problems came when they weren’t on the court. If this sort of thing was as dogmatic and obvious as he seems to think that wouldn’t be the case.

I’d much rather have Butler over a guy like Walker who (in addition to showing little actual interest in playing off ball) is a defensive zero, isn’t the same physical force and has the body type that tends to get beat up over a long playoff run.

Agree. Butler and Biid has actually been a revelation in the Raps series. Having Butler as a back-up PG, w/o Ben, also gives you the effectivity of a PG with his ability to run PnR and maintain having the advantage of size for 48mins.

I wonder if a S&T is going to be a conversation. I'm pretty ignorant on his contract, but is that a possibility?

I'm gonna be unhinged with excitement if we bring back Zach Lavine and change in a sign and trade involving Jimmy.

Jimmy is not going back to Chicago.

Its LA/Philly battle with NY on the back burner