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Sixers acquire Tobias Harris

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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#661 » by sixerswillrule » Thu Feb 7, 2019 4:00 pm

aHealthy3 wrote:Even then, we've limited our options of acquiring a star to only FA, and free agents haven't proven extremely keen on coming here. So we'll have one desperation swing at KD/Kyrie/Kawhi this summer after Jimmy leaves, none of them come, no assets left to trade for a star, Ben's max kicks in next summer, gg.


Why gg? Sign a handful of great role players and with improvement from Joel and Ben (and maybe Harris who is still 26), we could still potentially compete for a title:

Simmons/Collison
Redick/Smith
D.Green/Simmons
Harris/Aminu
Embiid/Bolden
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#662 » by aHealthy3 » Thu Feb 7, 2019 4:04 pm

Wilfried wrote:
aHealthy3 wrote:
Wilfried wrote:
I think you should start to realize, that we don't have a lot of appeal to the big time FA's.
Especially not when teams like New York, the Lakers, Clippers and Brooklyn all have the cap space too.

Think the Anthony Davis-saga should be a wake-up call. Why should he want to be traded to New York (as on his list)??
Because he knows they are adding another one (or 2?) this summer. Otherwise, it would be insane to go there now.

Elton got it and decided to trade for players before being left with some picks in the end (like, which would be funny, Ainge could see himself end up with). Nothing about having picks and not using them.

Apparently, Vlade got it too (trade for Barnes and sacrificing cap space this summer).


I'm aware of this. That's why I would advocate holding onto the assets for a star to become available next year, they always do. Now if Jimmy leaves, our only option is FA and as you said, that isn't fruitful for us. I don't think Tobias was worth going all in on.


1) What star will become available? What if there's no star available?
2) Are those assets enough than? (I know people think we gave up the house and everything around, but tbf: Shamet, Muscala, Chandler, 2 2nd's, 2 1st's (1 late), Covington and Saric -> Butler, Patton, Harris, Scott, Boban. I feel that this was a big OK. Only real asset there was the MIA pick and who knows, that can probably become a player worse than Mike Scott too for what we know)
3) Anthony Davis is available. Probably top 5 player in this league. He's not interested in Philly.


Beal, probably, with a few other potential ones around the league. If not, we would pretty much have the ability to trade that package for a Harris-level talent any time we want.
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#663 » by SixthStreet » Thu Feb 7, 2019 4:05 pm

aHealthy3 wrote:How do you suggest doing that when we just traded the vast majority of our draft capital for the next 3 years?


We aren't trying to execute a deal now. You rebuild the asset base. Hit on PHI19 and the Chicago second rounder. Sign some role player to a good contract, flip it when needed a year from now. The same way the good teams do. Study how Toronto has built it's never endless bounty of good young players on movable contracts. They haven't been under the cap for a long time now. But they have enough pieces to deal they could get involved in a theoretical star on the market today if the opportunity arose.

I say this while also agreeing with you that we paid too much for Harris. But I am higher on Harris than you and think there are still avenues to change course if necessary. That road runs narrower today than it did yesterday. The deal is a play I understand if not totally agree with.
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#664 » by aHealthy3 » Thu Feb 7, 2019 4:07 pm

sixerswillrule wrote:
aHealthy3 wrote:Even then, we've limited our options of acquiring a star to only FA, and free agents haven't proven extremely keen on coming here. So we'll have one desperation swing at KD/Kyrie/Kawhi this summer after Jimmy leaves, none of them come, no assets left to trade for a star, Ben's max kicks in next summer, gg.


Why gg? Sign a handful of great role players and with improvement from Joel and Ben (and maybe Harris who is still 26), we could still potentially compete for a title:

Simmons/Collison
Redick/Smith
D.Green/Simmons
Harris/Aminu
Embiid/Bolden


Yeah, I mean, the one remaining lottery ticket we'll have as a path to contention is if Ben becomes a top 5 player. If he plateaus, that team isn't winning the finals let alone the east.
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#665 » by PhilasFinest » Thu Feb 7, 2019 4:09 pm

aHealthy3 wrote:
Wilfried wrote:
aHealthy3 wrote:
I'm aware of this. That's why I would advocate holding onto the assets for a star to become available next year, they always do. Now if Jimmy leaves, our only option is FA and as you said, that isn't fruitful for us. I don't think Tobias was worth going all in on.


1) What star will become available? What if there's no star available?
2) Are those assets enough than? (I know people think we gave up the house and everything around, but tbf: Shamet, Muscala, Chandler, 2 2nd's, 2 1st's (1 late), Covington and Saric -> Butler, Patton, Harris, Scott, Boban. I feel that this was a big OK. Only real asset there was the MIA pick and who knows, that can probably become a player worse than Mike Scott too for what we know)
3) Anthony Davis is available. Probably top 5 player in this league. He's not interested in Philly.


Beal, probably, with a few other potential ones around the league. If not, we would pretty much have the ability to trade that package for a Harris-level talent any time we want.


I like Bradley Beal....but is he really head and shoulders above Tobias Harris' level right now? Is he really a "Star"?

I know he can score and can put up big numbers.....but is Beal's impact so big that your really worried about not being in the equation "IF" he becomes available? Dude would be a great fit skill wise on our team, but so is Harris...and I seriously question is Beal's a legitimate "star".
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#666 » by LloydFree » Thu Feb 7, 2019 4:14 pm

PhilasFinest wrote:
aHealthy3 wrote:
Wilfried wrote:
1) What star will become available? What if there's no star available?
2) Are those assets enough than? (I know people think we gave up the house and everything around, but tbf: Shamet, Muscala, Chandler, 2 2nd's, 2 1st's (1 late), Covington and Saric -> Butler, Patton, Harris, Scott, Boban. I feel that this was a big OK. Only real asset there was the MIA pick and who knows, that can probably become a player worse than Mike Scott too for what we know)
3) Anthony Davis is available. Probably top 5 player in this league. He's not interested in Philly.


Beal, probably, with a few other potential ones around the league. If not, we would pretty much have the ability to trade that package for a Harris-level talent any time we want.


I like Bradley Beal....but is he really head and shoulders above Tobias Harris' level right now? Is he really a "Star"?

I know he can score and can put up big numbers.....but is Beal's impact so big that your really worried about not being in the equation "IF" he becomes available? Dude would be a great fit skill wise on our team, but so is Harris...and I seriously question is Beal's a legitimate "star".

Beal probably isn't significantly better than Tobias Harris, but he's more valuable due to his positional scarcity.
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#667 » by aHealthy3 » Thu Feb 7, 2019 4:18 pm

PhilasFinest wrote:
aHealthy3 wrote:
Wilfried wrote:
1) What star will become available? What if there's no star available?
2) Are those assets enough than? (I know people think we gave up the house and everything around, but tbf: Shamet, Muscala, Chandler, 2 2nd's, 2 1st's (1 late), Covington and Saric -> Butler, Patton, Harris, Scott, Boban. I feel that this was a big OK. Only real asset there was the MIA pick and who knows, that can probably become a player worse than Mike Scott too for what we know)
3) Anthony Davis is available. Probably top 5 player in this league. He's not interested in Philly.


Beal, probably, with a few other potential ones around the league. If not, we would pretty much have the ability to trade that package for a Harris-level talent any time we want.


I like Bradley Beal....but is he really head and shoulders above Tobias Harris' level right now? Is he really a "Star"?

I know he can score and can put up big numbers.....but is Beal's impact so big that your really worried about not being in the equation "IF" he becomes available? Dude would be a great fit skill wise on our team, but so is Harris...and I seriously question is Beal's a legitimate "star".


I think he is clearly better than Tobias. Beal is a legit star and has done this for years on end. Harris has played at this level for 1 year and everyone assumes this is just automatically what he is now. It's very possible his shooting regresses a bit.

Even with the gaudy shooting percentages, the Clippers are -0.2 in net rating with Harris on the floor this year compared to off the floor. Last year, they were a staggering -4.7 worse with Harris on the floor. His RPM in a career year is 0.4 points better than a guy we could have likely had for cheap in Mirotic. This is all with him shooting the lights out. If those percentages slip even a little bit back toward his career norms, it's a really really scary proposition for a max player. Let alone a max player we gave up 3 major assets for.
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#668 » by sixerswillrule » Thu Feb 7, 2019 4:21 pm

aHealthy3 wrote:
sixerswillrule wrote:
aHealthy3 wrote:Even then, we've limited our options of acquiring a star to only FA, and free agents haven't proven extremely keen on coming here. So we'll have one desperation swing at KD/Kyrie/Kawhi this summer after Jimmy leaves, none of them come, no assets left to trade for a star, Ben's max kicks in next summer, gg.


Why gg? Sign a handful of great role players and with improvement from Joel and Ben (and maybe Harris who is still 26), we could still potentially compete for a title:

Simmons/Collison
Redick/Smith
D.Green/Simmons
Harris/Aminu
Embiid/Bolden


Yeah, I mean, the one remaining lottery ticket we'll have as a path to contention is if Ben becomes a top 5 player. If he plateaus, that team isn't winning the finals let alone the east.


I think Ben is only around top 20 right now, so top 10 would be a big enough jump, if you throw in a top 3-5 Embiid (he's not there yet) and a top 25 Harris (also not there yet).
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#669 » by PhilasFinest » Thu Feb 7, 2019 4:27 pm

aHealthy3 wrote:
PhilasFinest wrote:
aHealthy3 wrote:
Beal, probably, with a few other potential ones around the league. If not, we would pretty much have the ability to trade that package for a Harris-level talent any time we want.


I like Bradley Beal....but is he really head and shoulders above Tobias Harris' level right now? Is he really a "Star"?

I know he can score and can put up big numbers.....but is Beal's impact so big that your really worried about not being in the equation "IF" he becomes available? Dude would be a great fit skill wise on our team, but so is Harris...and I seriously question is Beal's a legitimate "star".


I think he is clearly better than Tobias. Beal is a legit star and has done this for years on end. Harris has played at this level for 1 year and everyone assumes this is just automatically what he is now. It's very possible his shooting regresses a bit.

Even with the gaudy shooting percentages, the Clippers are -0.2 in net rating with Harris on the floor this year. Last year, they were a staggering -4.7 with Harris on the floor. His RPM is 0.4 points better than a guy we could have likely had for cheap in Mirotic. This is all with him shooting the lights out. If those percentages slip even a little bit, it's a really really scary proposition for a max player.


And what has "Star" Bradley Beal done? His teams got 22 wins and looks awful, even with him getting higher usage and a bigger role.

This year Harris has a 1.97 RPM. Beal's is 1.17

Like I said, I like Beal and think hes good.....but considering him a legit star is a bit of a stretch for me. I think hes a good scoring guard and fringe all-star.
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#670 » by OleSchool » Thu Feb 7, 2019 4:27 pm

anyone have any info on the press conference??? I cant find it
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#671 » by aHealthy3 » Thu Feb 7, 2019 4:33 pm

PhilasFinest wrote:
aHealthy3 wrote:
PhilasFinest wrote:
I like Bradley Beal....but is he really head and shoulders above Tobias Harris' level right now? Is he really a "Star"?

I know he can score and can put up big numbers.....but is Beal's impact so big that your really worried about not being in the equation "IF" he becomes available? Dude would be a great fit skill wise on our team, but so is Harris...and I seriously question is Beal's a legitimate "star".


I think he is clearly better than Tobias. Beal is a legit star and has done this for years on end. Harris has played at this level for 1 year and everyone assumes this is just automatically what he is now. It's very possible his shooting regresses a bit.

Even with the gaudy shooting percentages, the Clippers are -0.2 in net rating with Harris on the floor this year. Last year, they were a staggering -4.7 with Harris on the floor. His RPM is 0.4 points better than a guy we could have likely had for cheap in Mirotic. This is all with him shooting the lights out. If those percentages slip even a little bit, it's a really really scary proposition for a max player.


And what has "Star" Bradley Beal done? His teams got 22 wins and looks awful, even with him getting higher usage and a bigger role.

This year Harris has a 1.97 RPM. Beal's is 1.17

Like I said, I like Beal and think hes good.....but considering him a legit star is a bit of a stretch for me. I think hes a good scoring guard and fringe all-star.


Hating on Beal doesn't make Tobias more worth it. Stars become available every single year.

Beal is having a down efficiency year in a completely dysfunctional situation, he's asked to do everything for WAS. He's consistently outperformed Harris pretty much every other year of their respective careers.
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#672 » by Black Mage » Thu Feb 7, 2019 4:34 pm

Why are people concerned about this working? He's essentially going into Ersan's role. A better shooting, ball handling and defending Ersan??? YES PLEASE! :nod:
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#673 » by bball4life » Thu Feb 7, 2019 4:37 pm

aHealthy3 wrote:
PhilasFinest wrote:
aHealthy3 wrote:
Beal, probably, with a few other potential ones around the league. If not, we would pretty much have the ability to trade that package for a Harris-level talent any time we want.


I like Bradley Beal....but is he really head and shoulders above Tobias Harris' level right now? Is he really a "Star"?

I know he can score and can put up big numbers.....but is Beal's impact so big that your really worried about not being in the equation "IF" he becomes available? Dude would be a great fit skill wise on our team, but so is Harris...and I seriously question is Beal's a legitimate "star".


I think he is clearly better than Tobias. Beal is a legit star and has done this for years on end. Harris has played at this level for 1 year and everyone assumes this is just automatically what he is now. It's very possible his shooting regresses a bit.

Even with the gaudy shooting percentages, the Clippers are -0.2 in net rating with Harris on the floor this year compared to off the floor. Last year, they were a staggering -4.7 worse with Harris on the floor. His RPM in a career year is 0.4 points better than a guy we could have likely had for cheap in Mirotic. This is all with him shooting the lights out. If those percentages slip even a little bit back toward his career norms, it's a really really scary proposition for a max player. Let alone a max player we gave up 3 major assets for.


I suggest you go look at Beal's net rating and RPM before declaring him a better player than Harris based on those stats. If he's a star then Redick's a super star.

And Beal is not available anyways so its not relevant to what the Sixers could and could not do. Beal isn't even shooting league avg 3p% this year by the way. I wouldn't call him a star at all, I'd call him a good SG in a league where he looks better based on the scarcity at the position.

Agreed though that Harris as a max contract is probably a slight overpay particularly if his numbers dip a bit. But his age fits well in the timeline of contention and if you don't plan on trading him an overpay isn't really relevant with our soon to be cap situation.
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#674 » by Quint » Thu Feb 7, 2019 4:44 pm

The Butler trade and the Harris trades were great trades. We basically gave up nothing in both cases, and if they both leave we will have plenty of money and cap space do more than make up for than the s*** we lost. People have to stop acting like Roco and Dario were some kind of stars. Very easily replaceable.
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#675 » by Negrodamus » Thu Feb 7, 2019 4:45 pm

The more I think about this trade, the more I'm thinking we kinda ran away with it. The Heat pick is very theoretical value. As stated earlier, I think the Heat is one of the top FA destinations in the league. They have time between now and the beginning of the 2021 season to move bloated contracts and bring in top flight FAs. I don't think Pat Riley is willing to tank and they will be motivated to be at least decent that 2020 season given they don't have their pick.

Shamet's value is as a shooter. As we've seen time and time again, the value of knockdown 3 point shooters are generally on their second or third team. JJ wasn't really an important piece until like his sixth season.

Tobias has been on 5 teams so far. At this point, I think he wants to stick with a team that wants him. He's also from the northeast and spends his offseasons in Long Island. I think given the circumstances (a non-shooting elite point guard, a star big man that needs the floor to be stretched and will cover for his defensive deficiencies) he is going to find Philly to be an ideal fit.
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#676 » by sixers4real » Thu Feb 7, 2019 4:48 pm

It's funny that looking back at 2018 NBA draft, now we could've had Mikal Bridges (10th pick) and Robert Williams (26th pick) instead of Harris.
Elton Brand traded assets that Brett Brown got us. I still remember LloydFree being upset that BB allowed Boston to pick Robert Williams on a draft day. And I remember people being upset we traded Mikal Bridges.

Basically, that's why we have Tobias Harris now. Big props for Brett Brown in his one.
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#677 » by the_process » Thu Feb 7, 2019 4:57 pm

I'm still curious as to just how this deal was structured. Sorry if I missed it earlier in the thread. Apparently the Clips got a 9.8M TPE? That's the difference between Harris and Muscala. How was that legal to do?

I can see if they did Harris for Chandler, then Scott and Boban for Shamet and Muscala how that would work. But that certainly doesn't get the Clips a 9.8M TPE.
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#678 » by Quint » Thu Feb 7, 2019 4:57 pm

Negrodamus wrote:The more I think about this trade, the more I'm thinking we kinda ran away with it. The Heat pick is very theoretical value. As stated earlier, I think the Heat is one of the top FA destinations in the league. They have time between now and the beginning of the 2021 season to move bloated contracts and bring in top flight FAs. I don't think Pat Riley is willing to tank and they will be motivated to be at least decent that 2020 season given they don't have their pick.

Shamet's value is as a shooter. As we've seen time and time again, the value of knockdown 3 point shooters are generally on their second or third team. JJ wasn't really an important piece until like his sixth season.

Tobias has been on 5 teams so far. At this point, I think he wants to stick with a team that wants him. He's also from the northeast and spends his offseasons in Long Island. I think given the circumstances (a non-shooting elite point guard, a star big man that needs the floor to be stretched and will cover for his defensive deficiencies) he is going to find Philly to be an ideal fit.


precisely the only thing we gave up a value possibly is the Miami pick and they're always about 500 so it's not like it's going to be a top three or four pick anyways. It was a great trade. Plus he's only 26 years old not even in his prime yet.
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#679 » by Wilfried » Thu Feb 7, 2019 5:05 pm

aHealthy3 wrote:
PhilasFinest wrote:
aHealthy3 wrote:
I think he is clearly better than Tobias. Beal is a legit star and has done this for years on end. Harris has played at this level for 1 year and everyone assumes this is just automatically what he is now. It's very possible his shooting regresses a bit.

Even with the gaudy shooting percentages, the Clippers are -0.2 in net rating with Harris on the floor this year. Last year, they were a staggering -4.7 with Harris on the floor. His RPM is 0.4 points better than a guy we could have likely had for cheap in Mirotic. This is all with him shooting the lights out. If those percentages slip even a little bit, it's a really really scary proposition for a max player.


And what has "Star" Bradley Beal done? His teams got 22 wins and looks awful, even with him getting higher usage and a bigger role.

This year Harris has a 1.97 RPM. Beal's is 1.17

Like I said, I like Beal and think hes good.....but considering him a legit star is a bit of a stretch for me. I think hes a good scoring guard and fringe all-star.


Hating on Beal doesn't make Tobias more worth it. Stars become available every single year.

Beal is having a down efficiency year in a completely dysfunctional situation, he's asked to do everything for WAS. He's consistently outperformed Harris pretty much every other year of their respective careers.


Maybe but he's not available atm and nobody knows if he becomes available.
Not even you.

And if so, it's not sure we won't get outbid either
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#680 » by 76ciology » Thu Feb 7, 2019 5:12 pm

2 LA teams and NY got max cap space. That’s the downside of the Butler and Harris moves
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