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Sixers acquire Tobias Harris

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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#681 » by aHealthy3 » Thu Feb 7, 2019 5:16 pm

bball4life wrote:
aHealthy3 wrote:
PhilasFinest wrote:
I like Bradley Beal....but is he really head and shoulders above Tobias Harris' level right now? Is he really a "Star"?

I know he can score and can put up big numbers.....but is Beal's impact so big that your really worried about not being in the equation "IF" he becomes available? Dude would be a great fit skill wise on our team, but so is Harris...and I seriously question is Beal's a legitimate "star".


I think he is clearly better than Tobias. Beal is a legit star and has done this for years on end. Harris has played at this level for 1 year and everyone assumes this is just automatically what he is now. It's very possible his shooting regresses a bit.

Even with the gaudy shooting percentages, the Clippers are -0.2 in net rating with Harris on the floor this year compared to off the floor. Last year, they were a staggering -4.7 worse with Harris on the floor. His RPM in a career year is 0.4 points better than a guy we could have likely had for cheap in Mirotic. This is all with him shooting the lights out. If those percentages slip even a little bit back toward his career norms, it's a really really scary proposition for a max player. Let alone a max player we gave up 3 major assets for.


I suggest you go look at Beal's net rating and RPM before declaring him a better player than Harris based on those stats. If he's a star then Redick's a super star.

And Beal is not available anyways so its not relevant to what the Sixers could and could not do. Beal isn't even shooting league avg 3p% this year by the way. I wouldn't call him a star at all, I'd call him a good SG in a league where he looks better based on the scarcity at the position.

Agreed though that Harris as a max contract is probably a slight overpay particularly if his numbers dip a bit. But his age fits well in the timeline of contention and if you don't plan on trading him an overpay isn't really relevant with our soon to be cap situation.


He's had a better RPM than Harris every year of his career other than this year. Which is again, playing in arguably the most dysfunctional situation in the NBA.

Last year the Wizards were +7.1 with Beal on the floor, 2 years ago they were +12.9 with Beal on the floor. Harris: -0.2 this year, -4.7 last year, +2.4 2 years ago.

Again, Beal is just an example of someone I'd be more comfortable maxing than Harris. There are plenty of other guys.
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#682 » by aHealthy3 » Thu Feb 7, 2019 5:18 pm

I don't think the team now is really significantly better than it would be had we made smaller moves to bring in guys like Mirotic, Matthews, Dedmon, Beverley/Lin. And we would have maintained our optionality going forward as well.
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#683 » by the_process » Thu Feb 7, 2019 5:31 pm

76ciology wrote:2 LA teams and NY got max cap space. That’s the downside of the Butler and Harris moves


2 NY teams and 2 LA teams. But I imagine whoever you offer the 5 year max to won't leave. And whoever you offer the 4 year max to might.
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#684 » by 76ciology » Thu Feb 7, 2019 5:34 pm

the_process wrote:
76ciology wrote:2 LA teams and NY got max cap space. That’s the downside of the Butler and Harris moves


2 NY teams and 2 LA teams. But I imagine whoever you offer the 5 year max to won't leave. And whoever you offer the 4 year max to might.

Sad but true
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#685 » by 76ciology » Thu Feb 7, 2019 5:34 pm

aHealthy3 wrote:I don't think the team now is really significantly better than it would be had we made smaller moves to bring in guys like Mirotic, Matthews, Dedmon, Beverley/Lin. And we would have maintained our optionality going forward as well.

U serious?

Kick the can long enough and you become the can that is being kicked
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#686 » by 76ciology » Thu Feb 7, 2019 5:37 pm

Yeah, Beal is much better than Harris. Beal is a guy that can move the needle on offense. Harris is more of like a wing version of Jj, he is a great pressure release that’s why people says he’s a great fit because all they have to look at is JJ’s impact on both Biid and Ben.

Beal can also do that btw.
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#687 » by CoreyGallagher » Thu Feb 7, 2019 5:38 pm

aHealthy3 wrote:I don't think the team now is really significantly better than it would be had we made smaller moves to bring in guys like Mirotic, Matthews, Dedmon, Beverley/Lin. And we would have maintained our optionality going forward as well.

It is significantly better from a talent perspective. Perhaps not significantly better if the barometer were regular season wins, which depth matters more for, but the moves were made for the playoffs. Just having more shooters gets us as far as we got last season.
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#688 » by aHealthy3 » Thu Feb 7, 2019 6:09 pm

I don't know, man. Mirotic seems like he's at least 80% of the player Tobias is by pretty much any available metric. Yeah he's not the same threat off the dribble but the Bucks just got him for literally free. I'm not seeing it. Gonna stop beating a dead horse now and see how it plays out I guess.
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#689 » by the_process » Thu Feb 7, 2019 6:50 pm

And just like that... 2nd best lineup in the East.

Lopez - Embiid
Mirotic - Harris
Giannis - Butler
Middleton - Redick
Brogdon - Simmons
Bledsoe - McConnell
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#690 » by PhilasFinest » Thu Feb 7, 2019 7:11 pm

the_process wrote:And just like that... 2nd best lineup in the East.

Lopez - Embiid
Mirotic - Harris
Giannis - Butler
Middleton - Redick
Brogdon - Simmons
Bledsoe - McConnell


6 guys play at once?

Also, I like the Mirotic addition for Milwaukee.....but he has also been banged up all season and isn't staying in front of anyone. I Like Harris' chances if hes got Mirotic on him.
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#691 » by the_process » Thu Feb 7, 2019 7:12 pm

PhilasFinest wrote:
the_process wrote:And just like that... 2nd best lineup in the East.

Lopez - Embiid
Mirotic - Harris
Giannis - Butler
Middleton - Redick
Brogdon - Simmons
Bledsoe - McConnell


6 guys play at once?

Also, I like the Mirotic addition for Milwaukee.....but he has also been banged up all season and isn't staying in front of anyone. I Like Harris' chances if hes got Mirotic on him.


Starters aren't playing 48 mins a night, are they?
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#692 » by FlyingArrow » Thu Feb 7, 2019 7:14 pm

I'm still liking our starting 5 better than the Bucks. But it's close. And I'm sure they have a better bench.
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#693 » by FlyingArrow » Thu Feb 7, 2019 7:15 pm

the_process wrote:
PhilasFinest wrote:
the_process wrote:And just like that... 2nd best lineup in the East.

Lopez - Embiid
Mirotic - Harris
Giannis - Butler
Middleton - Redick
Brogdon - Simmons
Bledsoe - McConnell


6 guys play at once?

Also, I like the Mirotic addition for Milwaukee.....but he has also been banged up all season and isn't staying in front of anyone. I Like Harris' chances if hes got Mirotic on him.


Starters aren't playing 48 mins a night, are they?


No, but nobody ever claimed the Sixers had the best roster in the first place... just the best starting lineup.
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#694 » by the_process » Thu Feb 7, 2019 7:18 pm

Did everyone see the Clippers traded Bradley to Memphis for Green and Temple?

Avery Bradley.

Are we still blindly defending this awful, awful trade?
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#695 » by Eyeamok » Thu Feb 7, 2019 7:29 pm

aHealthy3 wrote:
Wilfried wrote:
aHealthy3 wrote:
I'm aware of this. That's why I would advocate holding onto the assets for a star to become available next year, they always do. Now if Jimmy leaves, our only option is FA and as you said, that isn't fruitful for us. I don't think Tobias was worth going all in on.


1) What star will become available? What if there's no star available?
2) Are those assets enough than? (I know people think we gave up the house and everything around, but tbf: Shamet, Muscala, Chandler, 2 2nd's, 2 1st's (1 late), Covington and Saric -> Butler, Patton, Harris, Scott, Boban. I feel that this was a big OK. Only real asset there was the MIA pick and who knows, that can probably become a player worse than Mike Scott too for what we know)
3) Anthony Davis is available. Probably top 5 player in this league. He's not interested in Philly.


Beal, probably, with a few other potential ones around the league. If not, we would pretty much have the ability to trade that package for a Harris-level talent any time we want.


This is probably the kind of conversation New Orleans had year after year. Then they finally do a deal, get Boogie and Rondo. And an injury occurs. Then AD walks in and basically says you've waited to long to do anything. This team has to show their young core sooner than later that they are committed to winning with them as the cornerstones. This is not the only reason to do the deal but it plays into it. And look at that the Raptors get Gasol. No one is standing still waiting for the ultimate deal. Especially when the clock is ticking.
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#696 » by aHealthy3 » Thu Feb 7, 2019 7:37 pm

Eyeamok wrote:
aHealthy3 wrote:
Wilfried wrote:
1) What star will become available? What if there's no star available?
2) Are those assets enough than? (I know people think we gave up the house and everything around, but tbf: Shamet, Muscala, Chandler, 2 2nd's, 2 1st's (1 late), Covington and Saric -> Butler, Patton, Harris, Scott, Boban. I feel that this was a big OK. Only real asset there was the MIA pick and who knows, that can probably become a player worse than Mike Scott too for what we know)
3) Anthony Davis is available. Probably top 5 player in this league. He's not interested in Philly.


Beal, probably, with a few other potential ones around the league. If not, we would pretty much have the ability to trade that package for a Harris-level talent any time we want.


This is probably the kind of conversation New Orleans had year after year. Then they finally do a deal, get Boogie and Rondo. And an injury occurs. Then AD walks in and basically says you've waited to long to do anything. This team has to show their young core sooner than later that they are committed to winning with them as the cornerstones. This is not the only reason to do the deal but it plays into it. And look at that the Raptors get Gasol. No one is standing still waiting for the ultimate deal. Especially when the clock is ticking.


With multiple stars in place already, we are in a less urgent position than New Orleans was.

And if anything, your Boogie example kind of supports my argument. The Pelicans' failed trade for Cousins and the assets they lost as a result, is a major part of the reason they're in their current position.
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#697 » by Wilfried » Thu Feb 7, 2019 7:40 pm

aHealthy3 wrote:
Eyeamok wrote:
aHealthy3 wrote:
Beal, probably, with a few other potential ones around the league. If not, we would pretty much have the ability to trade that package for a Harris-level talent any time we want.


This is probably the kind of conversation New Orleans had year after year. Then they finally do a deal, get Boogie and Rondo. And an injury occurs. Then AD walks in and basically says you've waited to long to do anything. This team has to show their young core sooner than later that they are committed to winning with them as the cornerstones. This is not the only reason to do the deal but it plays into it. And look at that the Raptors get Gasol. No one is standing still waiting for the ultimate deal. Especially when the clock is ticking.


With multiple stars in place already, we are in a less urgent position than New Orleans was.

And if anything, your Boogie example kind of supports my argument. The Pelicans' failed trade for Cousins and the assets they lost as a result, is a major part of the reason they're in their current position.


Maybe also that horrible injury to Cousins?
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#698 » by bball4life » Thu Feb 7, 2019 7:48 pm

the_process wrote:Did everyone see the Clippers traded Bradley to Memphis for Green and Temple?

Avery Bradley.

Are we still blindly defending this awful, awful trade?


You say this like Green and Temple are good players. Yes, we could trade expiring contracts for average or worse players too and fill out our roster the same way these bad and mediocre teams are doing with meh players and then turn them around for expirings or 2nd rounders next year when we're the mediocre team.....

You need 8 or 9 players to win in the NBA. The Sixers need one more guard upgrade on their bench to get there to replace TJ. Neither of those dudes is that.
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#699 » by the_process » Thu Feb 7, 2019 8:02 pm

bball4life wrote:
the_process wrote:Did everyone see the Clippers traded Bradley to Memphis for Green and Temple?

Avery Bradley.

Are we still blindly defending this awful, awful trade?


You say this like Green and Temple are good players. Yes, we could trade expiring contracts for average or worse players too and fill out our roster the same way these bad and mediocre teams are doing with meh players and then turn them around for expirings or 2nd rounders next year when we're the mediocre team.....

You need 8 or 9 players to win in the NBA. The Sixers need one more guard upgrade on their bench to get there to replace TJ. Neither of those dudes is that.


Green is a very decent player who can shoot and defend, unlike Tobias. Temple can competently play minutes in the backcourt, unlike anybody the Sixers got from LA.

Also, Green and Temple didn't cost TWO 1sts and two 2nds and Shamet.
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#700 » by Kobblehead » Thu Feb 7, 2019 8:07 pm

the_process wrote:Green is a very decent player who can shoot and defend, unlike Tobias. Temple can competently play minutes in the backcourt, unlike anybody the Sixers got from LA.

Also, Green and Temple didn't cost TWO 1sts and two 2nds and Shamet.

Can Green and Temple score 20 a game on 60% true shooting while creating their own offense and shooting well over 40% from three at volume?

We paid a star package for Tobias Harris because he's playing like a star right now.

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