ImageImageImage

Sixers acquire Tobias Harris

Moderators: HartfordWhalers, BullyKing, sixers hoops, Sixerscan, Foshan

the_process
RealGM
Posts: 18,566
And1: 4,473
Joined: May 01, 2010

Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#701 » by the_process » Thu Feb 7, 2019 8:16 pm

Kobblehead wrote:
the_process wrote:Green is a very decent player who can shoot and defend, unlike Tobias. Temple can competently play minutes in the backcourt, unlike anybody the Sixers got from LA.

Also, Green and Temple didn't cost TWO 1sts and two 2nds and Shamet.


Can Green and Temple score 20 a game on 60% true shooting while creating their own offense and shooting well over 40% from three at volume?

We paid a star package for Tobias Harris because he's playing like a star right now.


He's expiring, and this is a career year. Coincidence? Tobias isn't a star. He is also not good on defense, whereas Green is.

Also; the Sixers have Embiid who wants numbers to try and win MVP, Butler wants touches to put up stats and get paid, and Ben wants numbers to try and get All-NBA so he can get a Rose extension in the summer. So... let's go grab another guy who needs the ball and wants to put up numbers to get paid. That should go over well.
Kobblehead
RealGM
Posts: 31,020
And1: 12,914
Joined: Apr 15, 2010
 

Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#702 » by Kobblehead » Thu Feb 7, 2019 8:23 pm

This career year didn't come out of nowhere. He's been building up to this point for years now. Whether you classify him a star or a pseudo star, he's become one of the more efficient volume scorers in basketball and an elite shooter.

He can seamlessly play on and off the ball and compliment any core group we decide to go forward with.
bball4life
Analyst
Posts: 3,589
And1: 919
Joined: Jul 25, 2001

Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#703 » by bball4life » Thu Feb 7, 2019 8:27 pm

the_process wrote:
bball4life wrote:
the_process wrote:Did everyone see the Clippers traded Bradley to Memphis for Green and Temple?

Avery Bradley.

Are we still blindly defending this awful, awful trade?


You say this like Green and Temple are good players. Yes, we could trade expiring contracts for average or worse players too and fill out our roster the same way these bad and mediocre teams are doing with meh players and then turn them around for expirings or 2nd rounders next year when we're the mediocre team.....

You need 8 or 9 players to win in the NBA. The Sixers need one more guard upgrade on their bench to get there to replace TJ. Neither of those dudes is that.


Green is a very decent player who can shoot and defend, unlike Tobias. Temple can competently play minutes in the backcourt, unlike anybody the Sixers got from LA.

Also, Green and Temple didn't cost TWO 1sts and two 2nds and Shamet.


LOL, Green has NEVER had a positive net rating in his life, he has NEVER had a positive plus minus in his career. And he played it all with SAS and Memphis. So........ he sucks. Yes, he can shoot threes at about average rate, and has a decent TS%. He's obviously a massive liability on defense to have his on off numbers be so horridly bad. No thank you. And Temple is even worse.
Eyeamok
Analyst
Posts: 3,291
And1: 1,530
Joined: Mar 02, 2006

Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#704 » by Eyeamok » Thu Feb 7, 2019 8:46 pm

aHealthy3 wrote:
Eyeamok wrote:
aHealthy3 wrote:
Beal, probably, with a few other potential ones around the league. If not, we would pretty much have the ability to trade that package for a Harris-level talent any time we want.


This is probably the kind of conversation New Orleans had year after year. Then they finally do a deal, get Boogie and Rondo. And an injury occurs. Then AD walks in and basically says you've waited to long to do anything. This team has to show their young core sooner than later that they are committed to winning with them as the cornerstones. This is not the only reason to do the deal but it plays into it. And look at that the Raptors get Gasol. No one is standing still waiting for the ultimate deal. Especially when the clock is ticking.


With multiple stars in place already, we are in a less urgent position than New Orleans was.

And if anything, your Boogie example kind of supports my argument. The Pelicans' failed trade for Cousins and the assets they lost as a result, is a major part of the reason they're in their current position.


It seems to me New Orleans started getting serious about building around AD much to late, Add to that injuries, which are part and parcel of every NBA roster. It would seem there is no time like the present to start building around your stars and letting them know you are serious. Because chit happens all the time.
Please allow me to introduce myself I'm a man of wealth and taste.

You want it to be one way....but it's the other way.

Marlo
User avatar
aHealthy3
Pro Prospect
Posts: 992
And1: 282
Joined: Dec 27, 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Contact:
     

Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#705 » by aHealthy3 » Thu Feb 7, 2019 8:49 pm

Eyeamok wrote:
aHealthy3 wrote:
Eyeamok wrote:
This is probably the kind of conversation New Orleans had year after year. Then they finally do a deal, get Boogie and Rondo. And an injury occurs. Then AD walks in and basically says you've waited to long to do anything. This team has to show their young core sooner than later that they are committed to winning with them as the cornerstones. This is not the only reason to do the deal but it plays into it. And look at that the Raptors get Gasol. No one is standing still waiting for the ultimate deal. Especially when the clock is ticking.


With multiple stars in place already, we are in a less urgent position than New Orleans was.

And if anything, your Boogie example kind of supports my argument. The Pelicans' failed trade for Cousins and the assets they lost as a result, is a major part of the reason they're in their current position.


It seems to me New Orleans started getting serious about building around AD much to late, Add to that injuries, which are part and parcel of every NBA roster. It would seem there is no time like the present to start building around your stars and letting them know you are serious. Because chit happens all the time.


I don't think Ben/Joel have any concerns about whether we're serious about winning. We already won more games last year than AD won during any season of his Pelicans tenure. And that was before we traded for Jimmy Butler this year.
Sam Hinkie wrote:The illusion of control is an opiate, though.
Eyeamok
Analyst
Posts: 3,291
And1: 1,530
Joined: Mar 02, 2006

Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#706 » by Eyeamok » Thu Feb 7, 2019 8:51 pm

aHealthy3 wrote:
Eyeamok wrote:
aHealthy3 wrote:
Beal, probably, with a few other potential ones around the league. If not, we would pretty much have the ability to trade that package for a Harris-level talent any time we want.


This is probably the kind of conversation New Orleans had year after year. Then they finally do a deal, get Boogie and Rondo. And an injury occurs. Then AD walks in and basically says you've waited to long to do anything. This team has to show their young core sooner than later that they are committed to winning with them as the cornerstones. This is not the only reason to do the deal but it plays into it. And look at that the Raptors get Gasol. No one is standing still waiting for the ultimate deal. Especially when the clock is ticking.


With multiple stars in place already, we are in a less urgent position than New Orleans was.

And if anything, your Boogie example kind of supports my argument. The Pelicans' failed trade for Cousins and the assets they lost as a result, is a major part of the reason they're in their current position.


And just like that our war chest is not empty anymore. :lol:
Please allow me to introduce myself I'm a man of wealth and taste.

You want it to be one way....but it's the other way.

Marlo
kriss73
Starter
Posts: 2,365
And1: 1,292
Joined: Jul 25, 2015
       

Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#707 » by kriss73 » Thu Feb 7, 2019 9:33 pm

Basically our 2020 lottery protected pick that we gave to the Clips and the 2020 OKC pick we acquirered for Fultz could be a wash.
Then, the second round pick +Salmons are almost equal to the two second round picks we sent to Jerry West and co.

Final haul: Harris,Boban and Scott for Fultz, Shamet, Muscala, Chandler, and MIA 21.

Is this form of the deal any better?

I feel like one of Shamet or MIA pick is still too much.
Adam Silver wrote:"Gross incompetence is acceptable; strategic gaming of a flawed system is not."
the_process
RealGM
Posts: 18,566
And1: 4,473
Joined: May 01, 2010

Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#708 » by the_process » Thu Feb 7, 2019 9:46 pm

kriss73 wrote:Basically our 2020 lottery protected pick that we gave to the Clips and the 2020 OKC pick we acquirered for Fultz could be a wash.
Then, the second round pick +Salmons are almost equal to the two second round picks we sent to Jerry West and co.

Final haul: Harris,Boban and Scott for Fultz, Shamet, Muscala, Chandler, and MIA 21.

Is this form of the deal any better?

I feel like one of Shamet or MIA pick is still too much.


Yes, better; but agreed still too much.
User avatar
stormi
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,536
And1: 1,097
Joined: Jun 04, 2019
Location: howdy
     

Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#709 » by stormi » Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:06 pm

cool93 wrote:WTF is this? So we payed two firsts + great rookie role player for effing expiring Harris? So I guess now Sixers will have to max that **** in summer? Kill me.


wow, your mind...
Stanford
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 44,693
And1: 9,207
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Location: Parts Unknown
   

Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#710 » by Stanford » Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:14 pm

stormi wrote:
cool93 wrote:WTF is this? So we payed two firsts + great rookie role player for effing expiring Harris? So I guess now Sixers will have to max that **** in summer? Kill me.


wow, your mind...


for posterity

Stanford wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
Stanford wrote:Just woke up.

This seems dumb as **** to me. Not a fan.


What don't you like about it? The Miami pick?

Tobias is exactly the player we need at the 4...


It just seems like it puts us in contract and asset hell for the duration of Jo's current contract. It's so many picks. So many. And Landry.

Not huge Harris fan either.

Just feel like the Clippers got us good.
Image
User avatar
TTP
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,915
And1: 3,108
Joined: Oct 24, 2016
 

Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#711 » by TTP » Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:24 pm

TTP wrote:
BigCuz wrote:
XtremeDunkz wrote:Wish it was Kork instead of Landry......

Who? Either way you guys got a STEAL. Amazing move


Dunno about that - seems pretty expensive for a half-season rental that’s likely going to be overpaid on his next deal.


YEP :banghead:

This was not difficult to see coming. I remember thinking people were crazy for liking that we gave up assets for the right to give a huge contract to a guy that's never even been a top 40 player in the NBA.
jonjames is a signature bet welcher.
youngcrev
RealGM
Posts: 22,252
And1: 4,456
Joined: Jun 12, 2005
Location: Philadelphia(ish)
   

Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#712 » by youngcrev » Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:27 pm

TTP wrote:
TTP wrote:
BigCuz wrote:Who? Either way you guys got a STEAL. Amazing move


Dunno about that - seems pretty expensive for a half-season rental that’s likely going to be overpaid on his next deal.


YEP :banghead:

This was not difficult to see coming. I remember thinking people were crazy for liking that we gave up assets for the right to give a huge contract to a guy that's never even been a top 40 player in the NBA.


I think there was some sense to acquiring him as a means to go over the cap in building the team. It gave you the option to keep everyone or keep him using a lower cap hold and sign a max free agent.

Giving him that size contract never made any sense though, and Elton clearly got squeezed out of more assets than he should have by a good GM
User avatar
stormi
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,536
And1: 1,097
Joined: Jun 04, 2019
Location: howdy
     

Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#713 » by stormi » Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:27 pm

TTP wrote:
TTP wrote:
BigCuz wrote:Who? Either way you guys got a STEAL. Amazing move


Dunno about that - seems pretty expensive for a half-season rental that’s likely going to be overpaid on his next deal.


YEP :banghead:

This was not difficult to see coming. I remember thinking people were crazy for liking that we gave up assets for the right to give a huge contract to a guy that's never even been a top 40 player in the NBA.


Elton trading for him hours after he had his best game of the season and hit a game winner. Seems like CP3 is going to be this again. Eternally chasing the fish at it's apex value when it could only feasibly be downhill from here.
User avatar
TTP
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,915
And1: 3,108
Joined: Oct 24, 2016
 

Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#714 » by TTP » Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:44 pm

stormi wrote:
TTP wrote:
TTP wrote:
Dunno about that - seems pretty expensive for a half-season rental that’s likely going to be overpaid on his next deal.


YEP :banghead:

This was not difficult to see coming. I remember thinking people were crazy for liking that we gave up assets for the right to give a huge contract to a guy that's never even been a top 40 player in the NBA.


Elton trading for him hours after he had his best game of the season and hit a game winner. Seems like CP3 is going to be this again. Eternally chasing the fish at it's apex value when it could only feasibly be downhill from here.


I'm actually on board with a CP3 trade depending on the cost. We put ourselves in a situation where we might have as little as one year before Embiid wants out, and even if that day never comes, we might have a limited window with his health regardless.

In our current situation, I see exactly one route to becoming a contender over the next year or two (or really for the extent of the Harris contract), and that's acquiring CP3. If the cost is some combination of Matisse, Richardson, and/or mid-late 1sts, those assets are extremely unlikely to be the difference in us being anything more than a second round exit. CP3, on the other hand, is very much still capable of being a top 10 player in terms of impact, is a great fit, and should age well. He's been an elite player his entire career so I don't view it the same as acquiring Tobias, who was never an elite player.

If we had the flexibility we had a year ago, I likely wouldn't be on board. Our options are extremely limited now though, and I think we're better off just going for CP3 and then using 2nds to try and replace Matisse.

It's also worth mentioning that I think people underrate how good CP3 still is and likely will be for the rest of his contract.
jonjames is a signature bet welcher.
Negrodamus
RealGM
Posts: 14,295
And1: 5,717
Joined: Aug 05, 2004

Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#715 » by Negrodamus » Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:01 pm

Negrodamus wrote:For this year, I need to see what we’re doing in the buyout market to evaluate this trade.

For the future, it’s a bit expensive. I would have been fine if it was just this trade and not the Jimmy trade. Still going to take time to process it though.


I’ve taken the time to process and this was a bad trade.
the_process
RealGM
Posts: 18,566
And1: 4,473
Joined: May 01, 2010

Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#716 » by the_process » Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:08 pm

I think all of us who hated the Tobias trade can officially say we told you so.
BB_Fan
Junior
Posts: 250
And1: 45
Joined: Dec 31, 2018

Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#717 » by BB_Fan » Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:19 pm

Tobias was a bad signing for 180M contract.

Elton Brand spend a lot of Assets to acquire him and then signed him to a supermax contract. He is not worth the contract and has a 15% trade kicker if you trade him.

I am surprised EB still has a Job after the dumb moves he has made as GM . I think he should resign owning moral responsibility for the damage he has done to the organization.

Regards

Naveen
User avatar
stormi
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,536
And1: 1,097
Joined: Jun 04, 2019
Location: howdy
     

Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#718 » by stormi » Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:34 pm

TTP wrote:
stormi wrote:
TTP wrote:
YEP :banghead:

This was not difficult to see coming. I remember thinking people were crazy for liking that we gave up assets for the right to give a huge contract to a guy that's never even been a top 40 player in the NBA.


Elton trading for him hours after he had his best game of the season and hit a game winner. Seems like CP3 is going to be this again. Eternally chasing the fish at it's apex value when it could only feasibly be downhill from here.


I'm actually on board with a CP3 trade depending on the cost. We put ourselves in a situation where we might have as little as one year before Embiid wants out, and even if that day never comes, we might have a limited window with his health regardless.

In our current situation, I see exactly one route to becoming a contender over the next year or two (or really for the extent of the Harris contract), and that's acquiring CP3. If the cost is some combination of Matisse, Richardson, and/or mid-late 1sts, those assets are extremely unlikely to be the difference in us being anything more than a second round exit. CP3, on the other hand, is very much still capable of being a top 10 player in terms of impact, is a great fit, and should age well. He's been an elite player his entire career so I don't view it the same as acquiring Tobias, who was never an elite player.

If we had the flexibility we had a year ago, I likely wouldn't be on board. Our options are extremely limited now though, and I think we're better off just going for CP3 and then using 2nds to try and replace Matisse.

It's also worth mentioning that I think people underrate how good CP3 still is and likely will be for the rest of his contract.


I totally rate CP3 also and he'd be a difference maker, i'm just saying we're always last to the party. He was being offered around the league for free just last season, and now if a deal were to be done we'd be absurd value. Miami acquired Jimmy for Richardson, OKC gets picks + CP3 for a dissolving Westbrook on a horrific contract, it would be nice if we could be ahead of the curve for once.
SixersSince82
Ballboy
Posts: 43
And1: 13
Joined: Sep 11, 2020
   

Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#719 » by SixersSince82 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:50 pm

TTP wrote:
stormi wrote:
TTP wrote: If the cost is some combination of Matisse, Richardson, and/or mid-late 1sts, those assets are extremely unlikely to be the difference in us being anything more than a second round exit.


But do those assets help us get in the conversation for Beal or Booker when those guys demand a trade 2 years from now? Its the NBA someone always wants a trade.


The only way Id trade for CP3 is if you also have a move to dump Harris for a contract that expires at the same time as Chris Paul's, so they can re-enter free agency and try to do it right this time.
the_process
RealGM
Posts: 18,566
And1: 4,473
Joined: May 01, 2010

Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#720 » by the_process » Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:38 pm

SixersSince82 wrote:
TTP wrote:
stormi wrote:


But do those assets help us get in the conversation for Beal or Booker when those guys demand a trade 2 years from now? Its the NBA someone always wants a trade.


The only way Id trade for CP3 is if you also have a move to dump Harris for a contract that expires at the same time as Chris Paul's, so they can re-enter free agency and try to do it right this time.


I'd insist on OKC taking Harris as part of a CP3 deal. Bet you they flip him as a positive asset two years from now, too.

Return to Philadelphia 76ers