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Sixers acquire Tobias Harris

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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#721 » by 76ciology » Sat Sep 19, 2020 5:40 am

Until we have poor depth because of Tobias contracts’ fault and one of those picks we gave up becomes better than Tobias, then it’s all good.

You can fantasize all the trades and signings all day, but we know imagination is easier than doing it in real life. It’s called “planning fallacy”.

What most don’t consider is you have to out trade teams when you do trades. And you have to overpay for FAs to try to outbid other teams.

Jazz, Mavs and Nets were all interested in Tobias. Do you know how much they were willing to pay Tobi? Given we all do things with a purpose or motive. I’m guessing Brand knows he has to pay Tobi that much because there’s no benefit for him to be overpay Tobi for that amount. While I dont think Brand picks Tobi over Durant with the same money. And honestly, I don’t think Shamet and those picks could really help you more than Tobi this season when Tobi is most times our second best scorer and was most times our best scorer when Biid is not playing.

It’s really about perspective. For instance, our salary after Tobi and Al’s contract plus depth, are is in the ballpark with the Bucks. All that while we have the better roster after the 4th man (Ben, Biid, Al and Tobi). And have one of the deepest roster.

I think some people want the picks, cap flexibility, Dario and Roco. While the other side see upgrade in Dario and Roco with Al and Tobias. While those picks’ value most of the time wont be as high as what we’ll expect them to be like the Kings, Heat and Lakers picks while that cap flexibility might just end up overpaying role players that you can acquire with less amount.

Im not saying who’s right or wrong. Im not saying Tobi and Al are not overpaid, because they clearly are. I’m just saying be open minded because there is a chance that the alternative option may have made us worse.

And this is just for this season. While I think we have to make some changes to bring our salary around the same guys on our tier proportioned to the talent it would bring with that much salary.

I want picks. I want cap flexibility. But turning those into talent is a different ball game that our team has struggled since the 90s.
“Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there is absolutely no point.”
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#722 » by Aussiepiston1 » Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:30 am

We pretty much got Tobi for Shamet, the Miami pick which will be a very late first and Fultz since brand got us a pick back this year.
Could we have gotten better? Yeah but it’s not bad.
The contract was bad but hopefully we can flip him for McCollum or CP3, other wise I’d keep him and see what he can do with a new coach.
Horford also!
I honestly think if we just sign Teague to the MLE and let him run point with thybulle at the 2 or flip Jrich for Dinwiddie and keep our roster the same we will be in the eastern conference finals next season.
Smith will eventually give us something, Korkmaz has more talent than Duncan Robinson, Milton will improve.
We gotta nail out draft and sign someone like josh Jackson.
It starts with the coach and the culture.
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#723 » by BB_Fan » Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:12 pm

76ciology wrote:Until we have poor depth because of Tobias contracts’ fault and one of those picks we gave up becomes better than Tobias, then it’s all good.

You can fantasize all the trades and signings all day, but we know imagination is easier than doing it in real life. It’s called “planning fallacy”.

What most don’t consider is you have to out trade teams when you do trades. And you have to overpay for FAs to try to outbid other teams.

Jazz, Mavs and Nets were all interested in Tobias. Do you know how much they were willing to pay Tobi? Given we all do things with a purpose or motive. I’m guessing Brand knows he has to pay Tobi that much because there’s no benefit for him to be overpay Tobi for that amount. While I dont think Brand picks Tobi over Durant with the same money. And honestly, I don’t think Shamet and those picks could really help you more than Tobi this season when Tobi is most times our second best scorer and was most times our best scorer when Biid is not playing.

It’s really about perspective. For instance, our salary after Tobi and Al’s contract plus depth, are is in the ballpark with the Bucks. All that while we have the better roster after the 4th man (Ben, Biid, Al and Tobi). And have one of the deepest roster.

I think some people want the picks, cap flexibility, Dario and Roco. While the other side see upgrade in Dario and Roco with Al and Tobias. While those picks’ value most of the time wont be as high as what we’ll expect them to be like the Kings, Heat and Lakers picks while that cap flexibility might just end up overpaying role players that you can acquire with less amount.

Im not saying who’s right or wrong. Im not saying Tobi and Al are not overpaid, because they clearly are. I’m just saying be open minded because there is a chance that the alternative option may have made us worse.

And this is just for this season. While I think we have to make some changes to bring our salary around the same guys on our tier proportioned to the talent it would bring with that much salary.

I want picks. I want cap flexibility. But turning those into talent is a different ball game that our team has struggled since the 90s.


There is no way you can justify Tobias Trade. EB made a fool of himself giving up so much for a guy who is not a superstar and can not win a game by himself. He is no Anthony Davis to give up so much on expiring contract. He completely disappeared during playoffs and is highest earning player on our roster. How many times have you seen him putting 30+ points in a game.

The second mistake was signing him for 180M contract with a 15% trade kicker. An experienced GM JW of clippers offered him 5 year 100M contract and that is what his true value. He over achieved in his contract year and our GM thought he is the next Hall of Fame player.

He is basically filling up the cap space with nothing to show for it. If Ben play PF he cannot play his true position PF.

Tobias is lucky that 76ers have an inexperienced GM who had no clue and offered him the huge contract for which he is not worth.

If you think Tobias is worth his contract tell me how many NBA All star games he has played or is part of NBA 1st , 2nd or 3rd team. His contract is given to players who are superstars.
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#724 » by BB_Fan » Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:27 pm

Aussiepiston1 wrote:We pretty much got Tobi for Shamet, the Miami pick which will be a very late first and Fultz since brand got us a pick back this year.
Could we have gotten better? Yeah but it’s not bad.
The contract was bad but hopefully we can flip him for McCollum or CP3, other wise I’d keep him and see what he can do with a new coach.
Horford also!
I honestly think if we just sign Teague to the MLE and let him run point with thybulle at the 2 or flip Jrich for Dinwiddie and keep our roster the same we will be in the eastern conference finals next season.
Smith will eventually give us something, Korkmaz has more talent than Duncan Robinson, Milton will improve.
We gotta nail out draft and sign someone like josh Jackson.
It starts with the coach and the culture.


Don't forget the detroit second round picks which will be in 30 - 35 range.

In Hindsight 76ers made a bunch of mistakes from 2018 draft. Drafting Fultz, Trading for Tobias and then signing him and Al for ridiculous contracts. EB should step down owning moral responsibility for his decisions

There is now no easy way to fix the roster without giving up many assets.
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#725 » by 76ciology » Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:03 pm

Spoiler:
BB_Fan wrote:
76ciology wrote:Until we have poor depth because of Tobias contracts’ fault and one of those picks we gave up becomes better than Tobias, then it’s all good.

You can fantasize all the trades and signings all day, but we know imagination is easier than doing it in real life. It’s called “planning fallacy”.

What most don’t consider is you have to out trade teams when you do trades. And you have to overpay for FAs to try to outbid other teams.

Jazz, Mavs and Nets were all interested in Tobias. Do you know how much they were willing to pay Tobi? Given we all do things with a purpose or motive. I’m guessing Brand knows he has to pay Tobi that much because there’s no benefit for him to be overpay Tobi for that amount. While I dont think Brand picks Tobi over Durant with the same money. And honestly, I don’t think Shamet and those picks could really help you more than Tobi this season when Tobi is most times our second best scorer and was most times our best scorer when Biid is not playing.

It’s really about perspective. For instance, our salary after Tobi and Al’s contract plus depth, are is in the ballpark with the Bucks. All that while we have the better roster after the 4th man (Ben, Biid, Al and Tobi). And have one of the deepest roster.

I think some people want the picks, cap flexibility, Dario and Roco. While the other side see upgrade in Dario and Roco with Al and Tobias. While those picks’ value most of the time wont be as high as what we’ll expect them to be like the Kings, Heat and Lakers picks while that cap flexibility might just end up overpaying role players that you can acquire with less amount.

Im not saying who’s right or wrong. Im not saying Tobi and Al are not overpaid, because they clearly are. I’m just saying be open minded because there is a chance that the alternative option may have made us worse.

And this is just for this season. While I think we have to make some changes to bring our salary around the same guys on our tier proportioned to the talent it would bring with that much salary.

I want picks. I want cap flexibility. But turning those into talent is a different ball game that our team has struggled since the 90s.


There is no way you can justify Tobias Trade. EB made a fool of himself giving up so much for a guy who is not a superstar and can not win a game by himself. He is no Anthony Davis to give up so much on expiring contract. He completely disappeared during playoffs and is highest earning player on our roster. How many times have you seen him putting 30+ points in a game.

The second mistake was signing him for 180M contract with a 15% trade kicker. An experienced GM JW of clippers offered him 5 year 100M contract and that is what his true value. He over achieved in his contract year and our GM thought he is the next Hall of Fame player.

He is basically filling up the cap space with nothing to show for it. If Ben play PF he cannot play his true position PF.

Tobias is lucky that 76ers have an inexperienced GM who had no clue and offered him the huge contract for which he is not worth.

If you think Tobias is worth his contract tell me how many NBA All star games he has played or is part of NBA 1st , 2nd or 3rd team. His contract is given to players who are superstars.


Looks like you didnt read my post because i clearly said he is not worth his contract.

You compared the Tobias trade to AD trade. What we gave up for Tobias is nowhere near to what LA gave up for AD. Lakers gave up Ingram, a guy who’s arguably better than Ben, and Lonzo as centerpiece of that trade. What did we gave up? Guys who wouldn’t even be 7th guy on our rotation behind Thybulle and Burks.

Think about it.. we are offering Tobias for CJ on this forums. Would Blazers trade CJ for Shamet and those picks? I doubt it.

Should we just sign Tobi during the offseason and not do the trade?

Sure. But here’s the thing..

Before we did the Tobi trade, there’s already a good chance that Jimmy wouldnt re-sign with us. He has already voiced his complains with his role. This is why it was reported that the Tobi deal is the back-up just in case Jimmy walks. Which happened..

We had to make sure we can find our third star on the team. Sure, who wouldn’t want guys like Durant over Tobi. But guys like Durant doesn’t want to play with us. A large sample size of History has shown that we can only get 2nd to third tier stars or stars with questionable health with with max money AKA “philly max”.

And we had to make the deal because at that point it’s already do or die. You can’t max out our the talent ceiling of our team if Jimmy walks and the cap space gets eaten up by re-signing role players, Biid and Ben.

You think just surrounding Biid and Ben with shooters like shamet would make us be as good as the Heat? Have you seen how good as a coach Spo is, Adebayo’s conditioning and Jimmy’s competence on offense?

We really had 3 choices in the moment before the deal..
1.) trade Ben and hand the keys to Jimmy to please him.
2.) get 2 more stars to borderline stars to play with Biid and Ben
3.) surround Biid and Ben with role playing shooters like Shamet and Milton

We chose 2 because it’s has the longest sustainable winnability, it’s realistic and as good as it gets when our fantasy of LeBron playing for us didn’t happen, we didn’t trade Ben for Kawhi, Fultz had a bizarre injury, Jimmy wouldn’t want his role on this team and most importantly.. Biid and Ben are not good enough to just surround them with cheap shooters.

We’re not perfect. We’ve made hits and misses. We tried.
This is just the cards we’re dealt with. So we can either just cry about it or find ways to play our best with it.
“Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there is absolutely no point.”
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#726 » by Sixerscan » Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:33 pm

They weren't dealt the cards though, if they were really in such a dire situation where they "had" to trade for Harris (which no one was arguing at the time of the trade, btw) it was only because the people running the team themselves put the team in that situation. They didn't just take over the week of the trade deadline.
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#727 » by Sixerscan » Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:41 pm

Image
A meme of the situation.
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#728 » by Sixerscan » Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:58 pm

I still don't have a big issue with the Harris trade btw. They were trying to win a title and he was a lot better than Chandler, and even Boban and Scott helped them win some playoff games. Couple bounces or Embiid not getting a tummy ache and maybe they win it all last year.

There's a downside to going for it (especially when you don't succeed) and everything after that is looking pretty bad though. Arguably they could have made another move for a cost controlled guy that's almost as good (like Gallo or TJ Warren, for example) that would have upgraded that spot and left them in a better position going forward.
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#729 » by BB_Fan » Sat Sep 19, 2020 8:05 pm

76ciology wrote:
Spoiler:
BB_Fan wrote:
76ciology wrote:Until we have poor depth because of Tobias contracts’ fault and one of those picks we gave up becomes better than Tobias, then it’s all good.

You can fantasize all the trades and signings all day, but we know imagination is easier than doing it in real life. It’s called “planning fallacy”.

What most don’t consider is you have to out trade teams when you do trades. And you have to overpay for FAs to try to outbid other teams.

Jazz, Mavs and Nets were all interested in Tobias. Do you know how much they were willing to pay Tobi? Given we all do things with a purpose or motive. I’m guessing Brand knows he has to pay Tobi that much because there’s no benefit for him to be overpay Tobi for that amount. While I dont think Brand picks Tobi over Durant with the same money. And honestly, I don’t think Shamet and those picks could really help you more than Tobi this season when Tobi is most times our second best scorer and was most times our best scorer when Biid is not playing.

It’s really about perspective. For instance, our salary after Tobi and Al’s contract plus depth, are is in the ballpark with the Bucks. All that while we have the better roster after the 4th man (Ben, Biid, Al and Tobi). And have one of the deepest roster.

I think some people want the picks, cap flexibility, Dario and Roco. While the other side see upgrade in Dario and Roco with Al and Tobias. While those picks’ value most of the time wont be as high as what we’ll expect them to be like the Kings, Heat and Lakers picks while that cap flexibility might just end up overpaying role players that you can acquire with less amount.

Im not saying who’s right or wrong. Im not saying Tobi and Al are not overpaid, because they clearly are. I’m just saying be open minded because there is a chance that the alternative option may have made us worse.

And this is just for this season. While I think we have to make some changes to bring our salary around the same guys on our tier proportioned to the talent it would bring with that much salary.

I want picks. I want cap flexibility. But turning those into talent is a different ball game that our team has struggled since the 90s.


There is no way you can justify Tobias Trade. EB made a fool of himself giving up so much for a guy who is not a superstar and can not win a game by himself. He is no Anthony Davis to give up so much on expiring contract. He completely disappeared during playoffs and is highest earning player on our roster. How many times have you seen him putting 30+ points in a game.

The second mistake was signing him for 180M contract with a 15% trade kicker. An experienced GM JW of clippers offered him 5 year 100M contract and that is what his true value. He over achieved in his contract year and our GM thought he is the next Hall of Fame player.

He is basically filling up the cap space with nothing to show for it. If Ben play PF he cannot play his true position PF.

Tobias is lucky that 76ers have an inexperienced GM who had no clue and offered him the huge contract for which he is not worth.

If you think Tobias is worth his contract tell me how many NBA All star games he has played or is part of NBA 1st , 2nd or 3rd team. His contract is given to players who are superstars.


Looks like you didnt read my post because i clearly said he is not worth his contract.

You compared the Tobias trade to AD trade. What we gave up for Tobias is nowhere near to what LA gave up for AD. Lakers gave up Ingram, a guy who’s arguably better than Ben, and Lonzo as centerpiece of that trade. What did we gave up? Guys who wouldn’t even be 7th guy on our rotation behind Thybulle and Burks.

Think about it.. we are offering Tobias for CJ on this forums. Would Blazers trade CJ for Shamet and those picks? I doubt it.

Should we just sign Tobi during the offseason and not do the trade?

Sure. But here’s the thing..

Before we did the Tobi trade, there’s already a good chance that Jimmy wouldnt re-sign with us. He has already voiced his complains with his role. This is why it was reported that the Tobi deal is the back-up just in case Jimmy walks. Which happened..

We had to make sure we can find our third star on the team. Sure, who wouldn’t want guys like Durant over Tobi. But guys like Durant doesn’t want to play with us. A large sample size of History has shown that we can only get 2nd to third tier stars or stars with questionable health with with max money AKA “philly max”.

And we had to make the deal because at that point it’s already do or die. You can’t max out our the talent ceiling of our team if Jimmy walks and the cap space gets eaten up by re-signing role players, Biid and Ben.

You think just surrounding Biid and Ben with shooters like shamet would make us be as good as the Heat? Have you seen how good as a coach Spo is, Adebayo’s conditioning and Jimmy’s competence on offense?

We really had 3 choices in the moment before the deal..
1.) trade Ben and hand the keys to Jimmy to please him.
2.) get 2 more stars to borderline stars to play with Biid and Ben
3.) surround Biid and Ben with role playing shooters like Shamet and Milton

We chose 2 because it’s has the longest sustainable winnability, it’s realistic and as good as it gets when our fantasy of LeBron playing for us didn’t happen, we didn’t trade Ben for Kawhi, Fultz had a bizarre injury, Jimmy wouldn’t want his role on this team and most importantly.. Biid and Ben are not good enough to just surround them with cheap shooters.

We’re not perfect. We’ve made hits and misses. We tried.
This is just the cards we’re dealt with. So we can either just cry about it or find ways to play our best with it.


The problem with the trade and signing of Tobias is that team has become worse and not better. I agree we needed stars but tobias is not a borderline star and definitely not worth 180M plus 15% trade kicker. He has till now played up to his contract . 15 - 20 pts per game is for players who make less than 100M in 5 years. Why do you think Jerry west did not offer him the max.

Jimmy Butler took Miami to conference finals and we have a first round exit. Jimmy is a honest guy and he is correct to ask Brett brown to hand the ball to him. Without shooting Simmons cannot play PG.

76ers front office made a mess in free agency last year. EB and the front office need to own up to mistakes. EB should step down for ruining the team. Fultz is another mystery.

The problem right now the roster is a mess with no backcourt. Shake Milton is a backup point guard and we don't have a good shooting guard. No team in league will take Tobias and Al contract without sweeteners like FRP. We were not able to win road games and that tells us roster is flawed.

EB made sure 76ers championship window is closed and will not win a championship.
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#730 » by Ellington » Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:02 pm

When are we going to hear Brand make a statement that he is actively trying to trade Tobias?
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#731 » by BB_Fan » Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:11 pm

Nobody will acquire Tobias with the 180M contract with a 15% trade kicker. He will be here for the next 4 years.
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#732 » by Arsenal » Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:30 pm

BB_Fan wrote:Nobody will acquire Tobias with the 180M contract with a 15% trade kicker. He will be here for the next 4 years.


He may be tradeable in 2 years when there's only 2 years left on his toxic deal. That basically means we're handicapped for 2 years as it is virtually impossible to build a real winner with his $35M burning up the cap.
#ThankYouSam | #TrustTheProcess
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Re: Sixers acquire Tobias Harris 

Post#733 » by BB_Fan » Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:39 pm

Sixers salary commitment for next year is 145M (10M above luxury threshold) . Because of Covid 19 revenue will be less next year.
Not sure a cheap team like 76ers that sells second round picks for $ can go on paying 20 M luxury tax with an under performing roster.

Expect a trade for Embiid to Clippers or GSW to bring the team under luxury cap level.

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