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Welcome Tobias Harris

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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#861 » by Murray_17 » Sun Apr 4, 2021 4:53 pm

sixers hoops wrote:Yeah. I don’t think a good regular season stretch against mostly bad teams makes you a star, but Tobias has had some huge performances, and his confidence is very high. I am pretty confidence he plays at a high level come playoff time. We are getting into a pretty large sample size this season, and I think this coaching staff has him in a position to excel.



Yeah, i agree with this, i think this season we have reached enough of a sample of cases where he become the go to guy on crunch time to have high expectatives out of him on the playoffs.
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#862 » by youngcrev » Sun Apr 4, 2021 5:50 pm

Notes from the Ricky:

Tobias is now back at 50-40-90 (.524, .409, .902 to be exact).

It would certainly be nice if he could get to the line more and take more 3s, but he's having a hell of a season.
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#863 » by HardenToSixers » Sun Apr 4, 2021 6:26 pm

sodmoraes wrote:

Man, watching this highlights you see Tobias can do it all: drive to the rim, shoot mid range fadeways, hesi pullups,shot the 3 well( but he gotta shoot more). And he became a pretty good defensive player too. What i like about him is that he's a hard worker, every year he improves a little bit. Lately im seeing that his playmaking is getting better too, if he could become our closer with good percentages in the playoffs i dont even want to trade him anymore, i think he can be a special player for us, he grew a lot this year.

***Extreme Homer alert ( beware):

I Always tought Tobias was some kind of Durant light( walmart Durant :D ) , he can do it all( of course not close to Durant's level). If Harris continues to improve do you guys think this comparison has some merit? What do you guys thinks that set Durant's apart from Harris? In my opinion it's mainly because Durant is bigger ( he's almost 7 ft) so he can get his shot better, so he's a better shooter because of it too. Durant is more athletic too.

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There are certain guys who give you high production on an insane efficiency. Kawhi in his good stretches. Embiid. Curry. Harden. Obviously there are others. It needs to be on a combination of threes and free throw rate. You can't just make the argument potentially that you could spread the touches around to other people and see comparable production. KD gives you that. Tobias doesn't to that effect.

I'm not attempting to downplay his impact for our team because I don't think we could successfully spread the touches to the rest of our personnel and scoring on volume is important no matter what. But he's not in that insane star efficiency league like star scorers are.
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#864 » by Tomjas » Sun Apr 4, 2021 6:33 pm

Holiday contract makes Tobias look like good value
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#865 » by SixthStreet » Sun Apr 4, 2021 6:50 pm

He still doesn't get to the line but he's doing a much better job of bullying his way to the rim of late. If he can draw and absorb contact and get to the line, he will unequivocally be worth the last three years of his deal. It would be a shocking development to me but quite plausible at this rate.

I still trade him this offseason for a cleaner fitting future though if a deal is to be made for a guard (directly or indirectly).
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#866 » by 76ciology » Sun Apr 4, 2021 6:53 pm

SixthStreet wrote:He still doesn't get to the line but he's doing a much better job of bullying his way to the rim of late. If he can draw and absorb contact and get to the line, he will unequivocally be worth the last three years of his deal. It would be a shocking development to me but quite plausible at this rate.

I still trade him this offseason for a cleaner fitting future though if a deal is to be made for a guard (directly or indirectly).


He’s trying to improve his 1v1 skills since the bubble started last season and im glad that he’s making improvements.

He’s slowly becoming rich man’s Jayson Tatum :lol:
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#867 » by 76thBearCub » Sun Apr 4, 2021 7:24 pm

SixthStreet wrote:He still doesn't get to the line but he's doing a much better job of bullying his way to the rim of late. If he can draw and absorb contact and get to the line, he will unequivocally be worth the last three years of his deal. It would be a shocking development to me but quite plausible at this rate.

I still trade him this offseason for a cleaner fitting future though if a deal is to be made for a guard (directly or indirectly).



I've noticed this more lately too, especially in transition.
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#868 » by HardenToSixers » Mon Apr 5, 2021 1:23 am

76ciology wrote:
SixthStreet wrote:He still doesn't get to the line but he's doing a much better job of bullying his way to the rim of late. If he can draw and absorb contact and get to the line, he will unequivocally be worth the last three years of his deal. It would be a shocking development to me but quite plausible at this rate.

I still trade him this offseason for a cleaner fitting future though if a deal is to be made for a guard (directly or indirectly).


He’s trying to improve his 1v1 skills since the bubble started last season and im glad that he’s making improvements.

He’s slowly becoming rich man’s Jayson Tatum :lol:

Sorry but Tatum is good. Your Fultz Tatum thing will never actually play out.
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#869 » by SRM82 » Mon Apr 5, 2021 1:34 am

Dude is the real deal
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#870 » by 76ciology » Wed Apr 7, 2021 8:42 pm

Read on Twitter
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#871 » by 76ciology » Thu Apr 8, 2021 9:00 am

How big do you guys think Ben’s gap over Tobi, in terms of an overall player?
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#872 » by DCasey91 » Thu Apr 8, 2021 10:56 am

76ciology wrote:How big do you guys think Ben’s gap over Tobi, in terms of an overall player?



Start of the season there was a gap, but now it’s pretty obvious Harris he has performed at his peak (even better then I expected). He’s in his prime now so it makes sense

Both though are await and see in the playoffs. Still like Ben as the third wheel though it has to be with a high lvl scorer. Getting the 2nd option scorer though is not an easy thing because it’s going to cost.


Harris 20/7/3 55% ts 35% 3 Ball

Ben 14/8/6/2/1 50% FG being a small positive on offense and being our best wing defender as a starter

So basically Ben plays at close to his usual playoff output, whereas Harris has to perform.

(Thybulle might go nuts here as our best wing defender if his shot is fixed up but I don’t think it is his wrist is still abit off)

I’ll take it
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#873 » by 76ciology » Thu Apr 8, 2021 11:01 am

DCasey91 wrote:
76ciology wrote:How big do you guys think Ben’s gap over Tobi, in terms of an overall player?



Start of the season there was a gap, but now it’s pretty obvious Harris he has performed at his peak (even better then I expected). He’s in his prime now so it makes sense

Both though are await and see in the playoffs. Still like Ben as the third wheel though it has to be with a high lvl scorer. Getting the 2nd option scorer though is not an easy thing because it’s going to cost.


Harris 20/5/3 55% ts 35% 3 Ball

Ben 14/8/6/2/1 50% FG being a small positive on offense and being our best wing defender as a starter

(Thybulle might go nuts here if his shot is fixed up but I don’t think it is his wrist is still abit off)

I’ll take it


Yeah.

Im not following the team that much lately and was surprised to see Tobi averaging 20ppg on great %s.

So i was like.. is Tobi closing the gap and have possibly surpassed Ben?

People will say, yeah but Ben is more impactful player.

Yes, he’s more impactful, with Embiid. It’s not like Tobi is also a much better player in +/- with Embiid.

While if you remove Embiid out of the equation.. isn’t Tobi the better player? Like Ben is better complimentary player than Tobi. But Tobi is a better in being an alpha than Ben, although both are not that good to be alpha.

It’s like comparing Klay and Draymond Green. Draymond Green is a more impactful player. But wouldnt you value Klay over Draymond?

It’s an interesting thought experiment and i dont have a clear answer to this.
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#874 » by DCasey91 » Thu Apr 8, 2021 11:38 am

76ciology wrote:
DCasey91 wrote:
76ciology wrote:How big do you guys think Ben’s gap over Tobi, in terms of an overall player?



Start of the season there was a gap, but now it’s pretty obvious Harris he has performed at his peak (even better then I expected). He’s in his prime now so it makes sense

Both though are await and see in the playoffs. Still like Ben as the third wheel though it has to be with a high lvl scorer. Getting the 2nd option scorer though is not an easy thing because it’s going to cost.


Harris 20/5/3 55% ts 35% 3 Ball

Ben 14/8/6/2/1 50% FG being a small positive on offense and being our best wing defender as a starter

(Thybulle might go nuts here if his shot is fixed up but I don’t think it is his wrist is still abit off)

I’ll take it


Yeah.

Im not following the team that much lately and was surprised to see Tobi averaging 20ppg on great %s.

So i was like.. is Tobi closing the gap and have possibly surpassed Ben?

People will say, yeah but Ben is more impactful player.

Yes, he’s more impactful, with Embiid. It’s not like Tobi is also a much better player in +/- with Embiid.

While if you remove Embiid out of the equation.. isn’t Tobi the better player? Like Ben is better complimentary player than Tobi. But Tobi is a better in being an alpha than Ben, although both are not that good to be alpha.

It’s like comparing Klay and Draymond Green. Draymond Green is a more impactful player. But wouldnt you value Klay over Draymond?

It’s an interesting thought experiment and i dont have a clear answer to this.


I don’t either I just know both archetypes aren’t the greatest fit with Embiid.

I would set it up like 94,95 Peak Hakeem ballhandlers/ a high enough lvl scorer on the outside in 95 and elite shooters and acres of space (modernized 4 out offense).

Like CJ, Green, Hill
Or Beal, Green, Hill

Neither are the leader it’s Embiid. Harris hasn’t shown up at all in the playoffs so it’s a wait and see at least Ben performs relative to his skillset imo.

Harris’s archetype is on the lower end of the tier list for me (PF that isn’t an elite scorer/shooter that’s an average defender doesn’t have high championship equity) but he’s performed peak level so kudos to him so far but the playoffs is where to see if he can play relative to his contract.

At least if Ben performs relative to his standard there’s a naunces in his limited game (Passing, Rebounding, defense, transition) he looks worse because of team construction. He can be an elite role player.

I just don’t think Harris’s game is suited to that. Being a role player. It’s 2/3rd option. He isn’t efficient enough or nuanced enough to be a third wheel and I don’t think he’s a second option at all.

It’s like saying overpaying an elite role player?
Or overpaying a 2nd option that’s not good enough when the real thing starts?
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#875 » by youngcrev » Thu Apr 8, 2021 1:37 pm

76ciology wrote:How big do you guys think Ben’s gap over Tobi, in terms of an overall player?


I think Tobias has outplayed Ben this year, but that Ben's still quite a bit better in general (if that makes any sense). In terms of how they rank in the NBA, I'd say Ben's somewhere in the 20s and Tobias is probably somewhere in the 40s.
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#876 » by Sixerscan » Thu Apr 8, 2021 1:42 pm

I understand that Tobias’s 3s dropped with Embiid out because he had more room to operate in the post and his midrange was the closest thing they had to an easy basket.

But now that Jo is back he really has to go back to taking more 3s. 4 a game minimum. That’s really where he has to operate because those shots he was taking in March just aren’t going to be there because they are going to Embiid again.

If he gets back to bombing 3s the offense will take off.
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#877 » by Wilfried » Thu Apr 8, 2021 1:43 pm

youngcrev wrote:
76ciology wrote:How big do you guys think Ben’s gap over Tobi, in terms of an overall player?


I think Tobias has outplayed Ben this year, but that Ben's still quite a bit better in general (if that makes any sense). In terms of how they rank in the NBA, I'd say Ben's somewhere in the 20s and Tobias is probably somewhere in the 40s.


BPM and VORP says the opposite
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#878 » by Stanford » Thu Apr 8, 2021 1:47 pm

Wilfried wrote:
youngcrev wrote:
76ciology wrote:How big do you guys think Ben’s gap over Tobi, in terms of an overall player?


I think Tobias has outplayed Ben this year, but that Ben's still quite a bit better in general (if that makes any sense). In terms of how they rank in the NBA, I'd say Ben's somewhere in the 20s and Tobias is probably somewhere in the 40s.


BPM and VORP says the opposite


BPM and VORP say exactly that. Tobias is having a career year in terms of those stats and Ben is having a career low. Otherwise, Ben beats Tobias in every previous season.
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#879 » by 76ciology » Fri Apr 9, 2021 1:08 pm

Some guy posted in the Gen Board about who’s better between PG and Tobi.

I guess he’s more hyped than me. :lol:

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2070258
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#880 » by mike76 » Fri Apr 9, 2021 4:51 pm

76ciology wrote:
DCasey91 wrote:
76ciology wrote:How big do you guys think Ben’s gap over Tobi, in terms of an overall player?



Start of the season there was a gap, but now it’s pretty obvious Harris he has performed at his peak (even better then I expected). He’s in his prime now so it makes sense

Both though are await and see in the playoffs. Still like Ben as the third wheel though it has to be with a high lvl scorer. Getting the 2nd option scorer though is not an easy thing because it’s going to cost.


Harris 20/5/3 55% ts 35% 3 Ball

Ben 14/8/6/2/1 50% FG being a small positive on offense and being our best wing defender as a starter

(Thybulle might go nuts here if his shot is fixed up but I don’t think it is his wrist is still abit off)

I’ll take it


Yeah.

Im not following the team that much lately and was surprised to see Tobi averaging 20ppg on great %s.

So i was like.. is Tobi closing the gap and have possibly surpassed Ben?

People will say, yeah but Ben is more impactful player.

Yes, he’s more impactful, with Embiid. It’s not like Tobi is also a much better player in +/- with Embiid.

While if you remove Embiid out of the equation.. isn’t Tobi the better player? Like Ben is better complimentary player than Tobi. But Tobi is a better in being an alpha than Ben, although both are not that good to be alpha.

It’s like comparing Klay and Draymond Green. Draymond Green is a more impactful player. But wouldnt you value Klay over Draymond?

It’s an interesting thought experiment and i dont have a clear answer to this.


Ben + Joel > Tobi + Joel
Tobi + Dwight/Bradley > Ben + Dwight/Bradley

Tobi has the advantage that from a lineup perspective, he can work with a wider cast of centers (stretch 5s, high post 5s, low post 5s, rim runners, etc).
Whereas Ben seems to find his most seamless fit with stretch 5s and also seems compatibles with high post 5s (which is why Ben has played at a very high level with both Joel and Horford). The fit with rim runners can get iffy because Ben is lowkey a rim runner himself in the half court, not a pick n roll initiator. And with the low post 5, well that is what Ben in the half court is as well.

But to answer your second question, it's Draymond > Klay in every equation.

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